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GROOVIE COINS

Most beautiful modern SA coin, participation welcome

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GROOVIE COINS
Posted (edited)

Good day collectors

In your opinion what would you regard as the most beautiful or appealing modern SA coin?

Any coin from collectable, commemorative to circulation. 1965, to present. Please share a picture if possible.

 

This is a tough one, but I'd have to go with a coin I do not even own as yet!

For me it would be 2004 Protea rand. 

It depicts our national animal, bird, fish and flower in an appealing design:

regards Robert

2004 protea rand.jpg

Edited by GROOVIE COINS

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Pierre_Henri
On 8/20/2020 at 11:12 AM, GROOVIE COINS said:

Good day collectors

In your opinion what would you regard as the most beautiful or appealing modern SA coin?

Any coin from collectable, commemorative to circulation. 1965, to present. Please share a picture if possible.

 

This is a tough one, but I'd have to go with a coin I do not even own as yet!

For me it would be 2004 Protea rand. 

It depicts our national animal, bird, fish and flower in an appealing design:

regards Robert

2004 protea rand.jpg

The King George V 2-shillings of South Africa, will always be my favorite, if in high condition.

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jwither
8 hours ago, Pierre_Henri said:

The King George V 2-shillings of South Africa, will always be my favorite, if in high condition.

Mine also, because the strike is usually better than the 2/6.  But I also like the Cape of Good Hope "patterns" with the young head Victoria bust.

As to the original question, I don't know where to find it in the catalog but I have heard a commemorative set was struck in 1995 for QEII's visit to South Africa.  I believe the set included a silver 5/- with the Gillick portrait.  A collector in your country mentioned it once on the NGC Message Boards.

It's a "made rare" set (mintage I think is 30) but one I would want to own if it could be bought at a sane price.

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Pierre_Henri
On 9/18/2020 at 3:54 AM, jwither said:

As to the original question, I don't know where to find it in the catalog but I have heard a commemorative set was struck in 1995 for QEII's visit to South Africa.  I believe the set included a silver 5/- with the Gillick portrait.  A collector in your country mentioned it once on the NGC Message Boards.

It's a "made rare" set (mintage I think is 30) but one I would want to own if it could be bought at a sane price.

Interestingly enough, I have just receive the Minutes of the Natal Numismatic Society this morning - one of the items of interest shown at the previous meeting was ..."The last item of interest that was brought in was a Proof Commemorative 1995 Royal Visit Set. Comprising of 7 Proof coins: 2 x copper coins; 2 x silver coins; a special 1995 Gold Sovereign Coin (Struck by The South African Mint) and 2 x nickel commemorative coins. This set does not feature in Brian Herns Catalogue".

 

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jwither
7 hours ago, Pierre_Henri said:

Interestingly enough, I have just receive the Minutes of the Natal Numismatic Society this morning - one of the items of interest shown at the previous meeting was ..."The last item of interest that was brought in was a Proof Commemorative 1995 Royal Visit Set. Comprising of 7 Proof coins: 2 x copper coins; 2 x silver coins; a special 1995 Gold Sovereign Coin (Struck by The South African Mint) and 2 x nickel commemorative coins. This set does not feature in Brian Herns Catalogue".

 

Interesting. 

I wonder how the member acquired it, as I infer it would have taken connections to acquire it directly from the SA Mint.  Or if bought in the aftermarket, acquired from another collector in the "circle of trust" we previously discussed in another topic.  I haven't tried to find this set but suspect it doesn't come up for sale often and probably mostly by private transaction.  (Both are an inference, not "fact".)

If my recollection is correct and all the coins are denominated using the pre-decimal system, not sure the set or any of the coins are technically or really coins.  Someone on this forum mentioned that Union coins weren't demonetized and can still be exchanged at the South African Mint.  Concurrently, it's rather an oxymoron to classify a coin issued under an obsolete monetary system as a real coin.  Same idea for any other post 1967 Sovereign.

In any event, the Gillick QEII portrait is one of my favorites which is why the set interests me. 

There are several other NCLT I like for a similar reason but all are a lot more common.  I own the 2003 Canada dual dated (1953-2003) proof set with the Gillick Portrait, mintage 30,000.  There is also a 2013 Canada $50 but this is more of a gimmick coin.  It's 5oz and abnormally large.  Mintage is 1,500.  Canada also issued a dual dated (1911-2011) KGV six coin set to commemorate the 1911 SP dollar.  Mintage is 6,000.  Lastly, there is a 2019 $50 5oz commemorating the bicentennial of Queen Victoria's birth but with the current portrait of QEII.  Mintage is 1,000.  I like this "coin" too but both $50 are quite expensive for what it is a collectible.

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Cold Sea
16 hours ago, jwither said:

  I haven't tried to find this set but suspect it doesn't come up for sale often and probably mostly by private transaction.

https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/485217883/_1995_South_African_Royal_Visit_by_Queen_Elizabeth_ii_Set_with_Rare_Gold_Sovereign.html

For sale by Randcoin. It was R7500 previously

 

Edited by Cold Sea

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Pierre_Henri

Very interesting!

If you do a search on this forum, you will see that the 1995 Queens Visit Set (with the SA Mint Sovereign) was discussed about 12 years ago with Collectors Investments giving some input on the set - I just do not have the time to search for the posting but I think it was in around about 2008

The set is well known, but how many were issued is unknown and if I remember correctly, the SA mint was questioned but they had either no recollection of issuing it or how many sets were issued.

I just cannot remember.

But the gold mintmarked "SA" Sovereign is obviously the star in the set and I have sold 1 or 2 of them on BoB over the years, but for some reason they are not that much in demand. 

I think that Sangs have slabbed some of them but not as coins but as medallions - that might be the reason why they do not do that well as expected.

Some of the other coins in the set were always polished in the sets I have seen - as ugly as they come. 

Edited by Pierre_Henri
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jwither
12 hours ago, Cold Sea said:

Thanks.

First time I have seen an image but this offering only appears to include the Sovereign.  My understanding is that all of the coins were dated 1995, as I cannot read the dates on the others clearly from the image.

I presume the Sovereign has .2354 oz of gold and the price increase reflects a higher spot price.  If my description is correct, it's basically selling as a bullion coin with the other coins and case adding almost nothing to the price.  

To Pierre's point, any lack of demand is probably over how it is classified.  This goes back to my point of it not being "real" coins from being denominated in an obsolete currency.

I'd have no interest just in the Sovereign or if the set isn't considered coins.  It would also have to "as struck" and preferably in the original packaging.  This is a reasonable expectation for anything released in 1995.

My guess is that the Sovereign could have some demand from collectors of the series at current prices, if they know it exists which they probably mostly do not.

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Pierre_Henri

I found my correspondence on the set in an old Word Document copied from the thread on BoB in 2009.

Since then I have seen more of them but then the set was all new to me.

Please keep scrolling down - there are some large spaces between some posts! 

Most (if not all) of the pictures have been deleted in the mean time, so don't click on the links of the pictures.

 

  #1 (permalink)  

16-06-09, 15:59

Pierre_Henri

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Posts: 44

Can someone identify this SA Mint Set Please?


The SA Mint produced this set in 1995 to commemorate Queen Elizabeth’s Royal Visit to South Africa in 1995.

It is a strange set as the seven coins in the set does not make any sense…

Firstly there are a 1960 Half Penny and Penny included as well as a 1955 Half Crown and 1956 Crown. Why these dates and coins?

Then there are two Commemorative crowns (exactly the same) with the words “Queen Elizabeth II Royal Visit to South Africa 1947-1995”. Why TWO of these coins?

Finally, a gold sovereign dated 1995 with the “SA” mintmark is included. Is this a unique coin, as I can find NO reference to it?

Any help would be appreciated. All I could find on Google was the commemorative crown of which an example sold on Bid-or-Buy. But the set itself was apparently never sold before and the 1995 SA Gold Sovereign never mentioned anywhere. Is that possible? Please click on following pictures.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/sov8.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/sov7.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/sov6.jpg

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e71/Pierrex/sov4.jpg

Thanks

Pierre

  #2 (permalink)  

17-06-09, 14:31

collectors_invest

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Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Joburg

Posts: 7


Hi Pierre,

About 3 years ago we went on a buying trip to PE and bought a 1995 Royal visit commemorative set.
But in our set the crown is dated 1957 and the half crown 1953.
The union coins are incapsulated but are not in proof condition.
They look circulated and polished.
The only proof coins are the 2 silver commemorative crowns and the 1995 sovereign.
Our sovereign also has the SA mint mark.

We wanted to find out more about this set,so we contacted the SA mint.
They new nothing about the set but they did give us contact details of a number of the senior management that were working at the mint at that time.
We managed to get hold of a woman who told us that she personally presented the queen with a 1995 commemorative set.
She did say,however,that she only knew of one set in existence ,the one presented to the queen.
She also said that the the SA mint did receive special permision from the Royal Mint to mint this particular set.

We have thought that possibly this set was a mock or test set.
As the sovereign has an official SA mint mark does this make it an official coin?
Or is it a pattern or trial piece??
Any info would also be greatly appreciated.

Kind regards
Bruce Mclean

 

  #3 (permalink)  

17-06-09, 19:56

Pierre_Henri

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Posts: 44

HI Bruce


That is incredible news.

I cannot add anything but if one set is in exictence, either I have the Queen's set (it has been a while since we had tea...) or a few extra sets were minted.

I don't think there is more than a handful in existence.

What happend to your set?

Kind regards

Pierre

  #4 (permalink)  

18-06-09, 09:13

collectors_invest

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Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Joburg

Posts: 7


Hi Pierre

We still have our set & have no intention of selling it in the near future.We beleive the set to be rare & have put it away for investment.

Regards Bruce

 

  #5 (permalink)  

18-06-09, 18:11

Pierre_Henri

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Good idea Bruce


I will do the same.

At least we know about three of those SA sovereigns now in existence.

Do you think it should be possible to contact the keeper of the Queens collection and enquire after her set?

Regards

Pierre

  #6 (permalink)  

18-06-09, 19:45

deonfourie

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Join Date: Apr 2009

Location: London, UK

Posts: 45

Royal Mint


I have someone making enquiries at the Royal Mint - will post here as soon as I hear.

 

  #7 (permalink)  

20-06-09, 00:13

coins by mail

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1995 set QE2


I have one of these sets listed now.

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/I...adeId=13853156

Lets see what the interest is

Brink

 

.

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Royal Visit Commemorative set Issued by SA Mint in 1995

 

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Royal Visit Commemorative set Issued by SA Mint in 1995

 

 

Includes Half penny 1960, penny 1960, Half Crown 1955, Crown 1953

2 Silver Medallions - 1947 to 1955, one Gold 1995 Sovereign with SA mark

CROWN CASE IS CRACKED

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jwither

Thanks

I have never seen him post here unless he goes by a different user name here.  Someone going by "Morgan the Brave" mentioned the set once (or twice) on the NGC Message Boards.  Below is the link where he mentions the mintage is 30.

https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/topic/414131-south-africa-mint-issued-qe-ii-1995-commemorative-set-–-the-gold-sovereign-silver-a-nickel-crown-did-not-receive-ngc-grading-as-ngc-claim-‘no-coa’-yet-legal-tender-by-sa-mint/?tab=comments#comment-9685644

From your comment exchange above, it doesn't seem like much thought was put into its issuance, having circulating Union coins mixed in with what are apparently three commemorative medals.  

I admit the three newly issued "coins" are rather interesting but suspect that however many were actually struck, the current owners mostly have similar opinions to the one expressed in your message exchange.  Believing it should sell for a very high price based upon it's rarity when they don't even know how scarce it is and why anyone would even want it aside from the rarity and it's novelty factor.

To get an idea of an appropriate price, anyone can look at the 1926-1936 KGV proofs.  If the mintage is actually 30, it's unlikely to be as scarce except for some of the 1931s and given what it actually is (as opposed to what someone may think of it), should probably sell for as lot less than any of these.

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Pierre_Henri

Have you seen his initial response?

South Africa Mint issued QE II 1995 commemorative set – the Gold Sovereign, Silver & a Nickel crown did not receive NGC grading as NGC claim ‘no COA’ yet legal tender by SA Mint!

My personal opinion is that , apart from the gold Sovereign that is indeed a collectible and rare item, the rest of the set are, how should I put it,  good for melting?

 

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jwither

Collector perception toward this set is probably going to be negatively impacted by the limited information surrounding it's issuance (primarily mintage numbers) and the sloppy presentation.  I think it would have been preferable to issue just the three new "coins".

Here is an example from Canada of a properly marketed coin.  With a mintage of 1,000 it's relatively common and rather expensive but presented well, both the coin and packaging.  I don't normally like above average size or colored coins but this one is well done.  The case is nothing special but the box is also very nice.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2019-CANADA-200th-BIRTH-OF-QUEEN-VICTORIA-50-5oz-PURE-SILVER-COIN/192923850647

Here is another one for the Diamond Jubilee, mintage 1500.  The reverse for both are from the coronation portraits.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Canada-50-Fine-Silver-Coin-5-oz-Queens-Coronation/122786987826

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Cold Sea

The colour issuances do not have a coin-like feel at all in my opinion. They are a bit of a novelty, same as any other commemorative. The design-art and technical may be special, but to me they have more of a medallion feel rather than coins. 

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jwither
3 hours ago, Cold Sea said:

The colour issuances do not have a coin-like feel at all in my opinion. They are a bit of a novelty, same as any other commemorative. The design-art and technical may be special, but to me they have more of a medallion feel rather than coins. 

I agree with you but have not performed a direct inspection.  Look good but not sure either is as nice as the image.  I suspect the 2019 looks better, as technological advances continue.  A general criticism I have of US coinage (where I consider recent designs of everything to be abysmal) is that it's computer generated and not from a manual sculpture.

Normally, I consider colored coins gimmicks (Canada is by far the worst with their endless NCLT issuance) but still like these two.  But yes, not really coins other than both are "legal tender", as if anyone would ever spend it for FV.  The "coins" are also abnormally large, bigger than crown sized.

The perhaps not clear point I was trying to make is that if the SA Mint had presented and promoted this 1995 commemorative better (all original coins in proper packaging), it might be better received by collectors, both in and out of South Africa.

There is definitely noticeable demand for this type of theme.  Australia also issued a Queen Victoria birth bicentennial, many countries issued QEII silver, gold and diamond jubilee, and the Queen's visit to SA fits into this category.

My main sticking point with buying this type of "coin" and other NCLT like it is the price.  The two eBay listings I included offer it at about $420 and $375 USD.  That's steep for something that is rather common even though "low" mintage. 

Too many other coins than I can count that I would rather own, since these are available at any time and possibly will be available for less later.

Edited by jwither

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