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Timeless Value

Non paying bidders for coins

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Timeless Value

I have noted an increasing trend of non paying bidders for coins. Typically they are new bidders who have just registered. This causes additional admin to follow up and file SNCs. Can BOB administration help to improve screening of new BOB accounts? Have other sellers experience the same?

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jwither

I have never sold anything on BoB, only eBay.  On eBay, it wouldn't be economical to do it, even if it was practical which it isn't.  These two would only do so by increasing fees to the seller to pay for it.  Is this what you want?

Curious, how would you expect them to do it?  Is there credit bureau reporting in South Africa?  That's the only likely option but I suspect a notable percentage of the population doesn't have credit history anyway.

The best option I know to your example is to allow sellers to block bidders with less than a pre-defined number of feedback records.  (I believe eBay used to have an option for below 10.) 

I don't see that BoB would have an incentive to do so.  I haven't sold anything on eBay in awhile but last time I did, don't recall this being an option anymore.

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Darth Penguin
9 hours ago, jwither said:

Curious, how would you expect them to do it? 

DISCLAIMER: I'm posting this as a regular user and not a staff member of BoB. The below are just ideas in my head...

One way it can be done is to implement a user scoring system and collect metrics based on user behaviour. You can, for example, score every user on anything from "payment success ratio", "how many SNCs are caused by this buyer/seller", "Abandoned orders ratio", "Order delivery score", "QnA response times", "Positive seller ratings in last 3 months" etc. A good one might be "how many sellers have blocked this buyer". You really can measure anything you want.

Once you have a pool of these metrics you can use a set of them to guide a potential "time waster" on a different user journey. If the buyer rating is accurate enough you can one day maybe give sellers an option to only allow "high quality buyers" to be able to bid or at least flag them on the seller's view (or maybe sit with the sellers and ask them what they'd want). On the flip side you can also use some of these metrics to compliment the current user rating and give a better overall indication of the quality of a seller. 

Collecting the metrics is easy enough but making them mean something that is accurate and without bias so that false positives are kept at a minimum is a bit more challenging. Last thing you want to do is stop a legit R20,000 sale by accident.

 

That's just me spitballing although I've had an idea for something like this in the back of my mind for a long time but never got to it. The potential for something like this is huge, but since I'm leaving BoB at the end of this month I won't be able to push for it (maybe somebody else at BoB reading this will bookmark this post and  get the ball rolling 😛 ).

 

 

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TradeRouteAuctions
1 hour ago, Darth Penguin said:

DISCLAIMER: I'm posting this as a regular user and not a staff member of BoB. The below are just ideas in my head...

One way it can be done is to implement a user scoring system and collect metrics based on user behaviour. You can, for example, score every user on anything from "payment success ratio", "how many SNCs are caused by this buyer/seller", "Abandoned orders ratio", "Order delivery score", "QnA response times", "Positive seller ratings in last 3 months" etc. A good one might be "how many sellers have blocked this buyer". You really can measure anything you want.

Once you have a pool of these metrics you can use a set of them to guide a potential "time waster" on a different user journey. If the buyer rating is accurate enough you can one day maybe give sellers an option to only allow "high quality buyers" to be able to bid or at least flag them on the seller's view (or maybe sit with the sellers and ask them what they'd want). On the flip side you can also use some of these metrics to compliment the current user rating and give a better overall indication of the quality of a seller. 

Collecting the metrics is easy enough but making them mean something that is accurate and without bias so that false positives are kept at a minimum is a bit more challenging. Last thing you want to do is stop a legit R20,000 sale by accident.

 

That's just me spitballing although I've had an idea for something like this in the back of my mind for a long time but never got to it. The potential for something like this is huge, but since I'm leaving BoB at the end of this month I won't be able to push for it (maybe somebody else at BoB reading this will bookmark this post and  get the ball rolling 😛 ).

 

 

Good idea

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TradeRouteAuctions
23 hours ago, Timeless Value said:

I have noted an increasing trend of non paying bidders for coins. Typically they are new bidders who have just registered. This causes additional admin to follow up and file SNCs. Can BOB administration help to improve screening of new BOB accounts? Have other sellers experience the same?

Have to blame the economy as well combined with timewasters

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jwither
10 hours ago, Darth Penguin said:

DISCLAIMER: I'm posting this as a regular user and not a staff member of BoB. The below are just ideas in my head...

One way it can be done is to implement a user scoring system and collect metrics based on user behaviour. You can, for example, score every user on anything from "payment success ratio", "how many SNCs are caused by this buyer/seller", "Abandoned orders ratio", "Order delivery score", "QnA response times", "Positive seller ratings in last 3 months" etc. A good one might be "how many sellers have blocked this buyer". You really can measure anything you want.

Once you have a pool of these metrics you can use a set of them to guide a potential "time waster" on a different user journey. If the buyer rating is accurate enough you can one day maybe give sellers an option to only allow "high quality buyers" to be able to bid or at least flag them on the seller's view (or maybe sit with the sellers and ask them what they'd want). On the flip side you can also use some of these metrics to compliment the current user rating and give a better overall indication of the quality of a seller. 

Collecting the metrics is easy enough but making them mean something that is accurate and without bias so that false positives are kept at a minimum is a bit more challenging. Last thing you want to do is stop a legit R20,000 sale by accident.

 

That's just me spitballing although I've had an idea for something like this in the back of my mind for a long time but never got to it. The potential for something like this is huge, but since I'm leaving BoB at the end of this month I won't be able to push for it (maybe somebody else at BoB reading this will bookmark this post and  get the ball rolling 😛 ).

 

 

It's a good idea, one I should have thought of at least somewhat.

Unfortunately, my prediction is it won't happen.  If BoB thinks like eBay, they favor bidders over sellers and aren't going to do anything which will reduce the size of the bidder population.

I understand BoB hasn't made the experience as one sided in favor of bidders as eBay.  But for those who don't know it, selling coins on eBay is the equivalent of an "approval service", if the bidder chooses to make it one.  I'm not interested in that which is why along with the lower prices for so many coins (not just South African), I opted to do my last large liquidation in late 2016 through auction firm Great Collections.  For $3 per lot, they did all the administrative tasks which aren't worth the time for so many low value coins.  I sold somewhat over 100 (mostly South Africa and Bolivia) where most are worth ess than $100 USD.

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Pierre_Henri
10 hours ago, Darth Penguin said:

...  but since I'm leaving BoB at the end of this month I won't be able to push for it (maybe somebody else at BoB reading this will bookmark this post and  get the ball rolling 😛 ).

Sorry to hear you are leaving.

On your farewell speech you can maybe slip in a piece of advice to BoB management - the new look and layout  is beyond a disaster - it is a catastrophe.

I have lost count on what I wish to have corrected or changed on the new site - it is mind boggling. 

I am continuing on with the old format that is still available - as many of us sellers are doing at the moment.

Best of luck with your new endeavors.

Pierre

 

 

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Darth Penguin
12 hours ago, Pierre_Henri said:

Sorry to hear you are leaving.

On your farewell speech you can maybe slip in a piece of advice to BoB management - the new look and layout  is beyond a disaster - it is a catastrophe.

I have lost count on what I wish to have corrected or changed on the new site - it is mind boggling. 

I am continuing on with the old format that is still available - as many of us sellers are doing at the moment.

Best of luck with your new endeavors.

Pierre

The feedback I give here may be crossing a line but as a software professional I need to look at it objectively (and I have nothing to lose :D). Sorry guys... 

-----

A new site was needed but I have to agree: this is not as good as it can be. It is a step in the right direction visually, but functionally there are some shortcomings especially navigation (and if we're being blatantly honest, there were some inexcusable oversights).

Some complain that it is too mobile focussed, but we cannot treat the mobile experience as a second rate citizen anymore. Times are changing and more and more people are browsing the site from their phone via the browser. Ultimately the goal is to get more buyers to buy more stuff so both sellers and bidorbuy can make more money, so I can assure you the bidorbuy wants the new site to be efficient and effective just as much as you guys.

 

I wade through the posts on this forum from time to time to see what people are really complaining about and one of the things that kept on coming up is that there was a lack of user acceptance testing which I completely agree with. It's definitely something to improve upon going forward. I look at the way I sit with our back-office staff when I fiddle around with their screens and processes to get an understanding of how they work and what they want and wish the same was done for the public facing site. It's not as easy by a long shot, fair enough, but from where I'm sitting it doesn't look like much was done in this regard. I hate to say it but the comment about "the people who designed designed this never used the site" is something I agree with as well. The guys here browse this site so much but in a very different way the a seller would. A lesson to be learnt here, for sure.

The new site was in fact live and available for the public to use for many months on the m.* domain. Maybe it was not advertised enough for people to actually use it? Maybe that is where it went wrong? Maybe sellers ignored it? There were so many other projects running in conjunction and maybe it did not receive all the attention it should have. Lots of maybes. I don't think there is a single person (designers, management, marketing, developers etc) to blame, it's just one of those projects that didn't go exactly as planned and hopefully it won't happen again.

 

Either way, what I can tell you is that your complaints are being heard/read, evaluated and discussed. Some changes cannot be made immediately for various reasons. One example: SNCs. SNCs are a problem and contrary to popular belief on this forum that we favour buyers it simply is not true. We try be fair and unbiased and SNCs in its current form the outcome actually very heavily favour sellers. It sucks because 1) we're giving money back and 2) the 7-21+ days it takes for an SNC to complete messes with sellers' cashflow which in turn breeds animosity. SNCs are being looked at, but you need to be patient while it is solved properly. You can only apply so many plasters until surgery is needed, if that makes sense?

If you look at the problems with the SNC process and other factors leading up to an SNC being filed in the first place,  from my point of view they include:

  • Buyers placing an order and not paying (a lot of focus has been placed on improving seller quality, but somehow we must improve buyer quality/behaviour and that's not as easy)
  • Taking success fees before a payment was received (just plain silly). Changing this will possibly have the most profound effect on all of SNCs.
  • Why do you have to wait 7 days before filing it? (Antiquated rule that's not relevant anymore in my opinion)
  • Can an SNC be filed automatically on your behalf?
  • If we detect a payment was made, why don't we close the SNC in your favour immediately?
  • The SNC process once filed can be completed within seconds but it relies on the buyer who most likely caused it to reply and say "my bad, I don't want the item anymore". They respond 24% of the time which means 76% of SNCs will take at least 7 days (14 days since the success fees were taken) before it is repaid. Again, this speaks to buyer behaviour.

That's just one example of a process we are looking at overhauling (and quite clearly, we are aware of the problems) and many more processes are being looked at to improve the user experience. Unfortunately Rome wasn't rebuilt in a day so you will need to be patient.

DISCLAIMER: I obviously cannot make promises on behalf of bidobruy, but maybe the above reassures you that you aren't shouting into an empty pit with nobody listening. If some of the feedback you guys give was more civilised (some of you really have a lot of, erm, "spirit") it may make things just a bit easier though 😛 (drop the all CAPS people, lowercase letters are easier to read)

 

13 hours ago, Pierre_Henri said:

Best of luck with your new endeavors.

Thank you. I've been with bidorbuy for three years and started under Gerd/McMuffin. In that time I've had the opportunity to rewrite and improve (within the confines of business rules) some components like SNCs, QnA, Tradefeeds, mailing system etc. I went through a CEO and CTO change and will not lie - the last 14 months has been quite a ride. Of all the places I worked I'm going to miss the people here the most (it may not look it, but we really are the nicest bunch of people around 😛) and have a good feeling about the direction the new management is taken the company in.

Pretty confident that by next year this time we'll see a lot of improvements and new initiatives being realised :) 

Cheers

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TradeRouteAuctions
2 hours ago, Darth Penguin said:

Pretty confident that by next year this time we'll see a lot of improvements and new initiatives being realised :) 

Cheers

Darth Penguin,

All the best with your new endeavors - We will miss you too

Thank you for your detailed explanation and lets hope for the best

 

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