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Lukeness

"Hydrothermal" quartz is lab created. Hydrothermal refers to the laboratory process which mimics the natural process take takes place in the forming of pegmatic dykes to form gemstones from crystal "seed plates".

The blue is usually either irradiated or coated in the same way blue Topaz is treated.

 

Most natural Ametrine and in fact most natural Citrine has been heated from Amethyst to get the colour although both do exist in nature.

Detecting modern synthetic quartz as man-made is extremely difficult and most of the old tell-tale signs no long apply. It is also extremely cheap to produce, especially because of it's many uses in industry.

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motherearth

I guess only time will tell as to wether the seller will actually conform as he has promised, I sincerely hope this is the case, though I notice that sister still has suspect looking Sapphires listed!

 

As luke stated Hydrothermal is a term used for synthetic/man-made/lab grown Quartz, if you know the colours that are produced naturally then it is easy to spot! The so called Ametrine shown in the link below, does not occur naturally under any circumstances! It is synthetic and yet the seller is claiming a value of R8000!

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/14620820/_R8_000_00_28_90ct_Extreme_Emerald_Blue_Golden_Yellow_Citrine.html

 

cheers

 

Jeff.

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Lukeness

Dodgy Diamond

 

This is plain untrue:

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=15036764

 

Florescence in diamonds is a fault. It LOWERS their value. It is also not colour change. Colour change refers to the changes viewed under incandescent lighting.

ALSO, the clarity grade is definitely off if those pics are of the actual stone. The stone in those pics would not be considered gemstone grade and would therefor be upgradeable.

 

With this in mind I would like to know where the value was taken from and also whether or not there is any grading on the 'certificate' which could be a report which simply says the stone is a natural diamond.

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motherearth

@ Luke - I personally know the GHI Lab in Bangkok, the only certificate they would issue on such a piece of gravel, would be to state that it is natural! , they would not grade such a low quality Diamond, simply because there is no grade available for such Opaque stones, as far as the colour change goes - that is a joke!! - sad thing is , someone paid a lot of money for it!!

 

 

After recent EGL tests proved a certain seller was misrepresenting Rubies and Sapphires, promises were made, that it would not happen again!

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/15092244/AFRICAN_RUBY_23_879Cts_Light_Rosine_Pink_PstPink_Semi_Transparent_BntyH.html

 

From the photographs it is very easy to see that this rough has been both treated and fracture filled! yet it is claimed as heat only! and valued at over $1700.00 US.

 

This type of low quality treated rough, can easily be purchased for $200 a kilo(5000cts) , do the math!

 

Jeff

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qball

Please note, you are merely expressing an opinion here, there is no evidence of this. The seller has had some stones certified by EGL, but due to the expense, will offer the choice to the buyer to have the stone certified by EGL at their expense once the stone is purchased. Please allow the seller time to update all listings.

 

Thank you

Cuan

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tipisa

How is it possible that community watch allow sellers to attack sellers. I do NOT sell gemstones but by going through the gem forums, there are ALWAYS some sellers (the same over and over) posting out threads or leaving negating or smug comments against other sellers, attacking them. It seems more than a vicious vindictive rage for there own benefit. You can go through 90% of the gemstone posts and you will find them, in all of them. This seems more than they are rather trying to boost there own items therefore warning buyers against other buyers.

I think sellers should not be able to comment on other sellers as this is clearly to boost themselves.

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Cali Craft and Gems

I for one do not "pick" on other sellers - I merely state the facts to inform the "uninformed" and sometimes ignorant members of BoB!

 

I have been in the gem trade for many years and take pride in keeping up to date with the FACTS. If a seller has mislabelled a gem for what ever reason (usually they simply trust their supplier as to "what" the item is), I point out the information to them so that they do not end up with egg on their face when their customer discovers the "truth".

 

If this advice is misconstrued as being an "attack", then I cannot help you!

 

PS. Ah - Tipisa - thought I recognised your name! You are the one who so speedily slandered and reported me to BoB for a lost parcel as you did not take insurance and blamed me! (you also stated / believed that the till slip from the post office with the tracking number was NOT proof of dispatch!) If anyone does the "attacking", I have experienced you first hand! Practice what you preach!

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admin

Hi tipisa,

 

You did notice that you made your post in the Community Watch - Gemstone forum only ? This forum was created by bidorbuy for users to report Gemstone auctions where the items are misrepresented etc.

 

Please read my reply to your other post in the Gemstones forum.

 

Thank you.

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GemDeals

I am a gemstone seller, I try to be as honest as possible so it pinches a nerve when I spot cheats, liars and crooks peddling away their wares to unsuspecting buyers. Ripping off the new buyers and costing us all business.

 

That is most probably why I will sometimes say indiscreet things, sometimes some sellers just need a good old fashioned boot up the bottom to stop being dishonest.

 

This has worked, but some are still out there doing the same stuff and just giving us the finger... :(

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MsPlod

As a buyer, I have recently had experience with a seller who appears to have a variety of methods to make relatively small amounts of money out of a number of people, without necessarily providing the value for the money.

 

I have a well documented email correspondence with this seller. This includes agreement (from the seller) that the sale is still good right up until the 8th of April (I paid the full remaining total early the following day). On 10th April I received an email from the seller stating that since I had paid late, all items (bar one auction for which I had paid) had been relisted and that I now have a 'credit' with the seller. I suspect - am I allowed conjecture? - that this was because my email to the seller included the following:

"all gems are the clarity and quality as advertised by yourself in the BoB auctions

all gems are the colour as advertised by ................ in the BoB auctions

all gems are in good condition and order (i.e. not cracked, scratched, broken, chipped, etc, beyond the advertised / stated clarity and quality)

appraisals are supplied with all gems bought that were advertised as having appraisals in the BoB auctions.

packaging is appropriate and does not allow gems to damage each other

in shipping each auction item is clearly marked with the relevant BoB item auction number"

 

In my email correspondence with hello@bidorbuy.co.za, I was advised (quite correctly) not to escalate, but to attempt to resolve the matter with the seller.

 

It has now been more than 8 days, attempting to get a refund from the seller with the only correspondence from her (five days ago) being that I must send my banking details (which I already had done... three days prior to her requesting them).

 

The second thing is that, while some gem sellers DO show rather inflated prices, this particular seller really takes things into the fantasy realm... R14,000 retail value for 6 x 0.17ct tanzanites?:o

I don't think so:rolleyes: - this is just ONE example...

 

Tanzanites - VVS .78CTS TANZANITES - VALUE R14'000.00 COMBINED IF BID ON ALL 6 .17CTS EACH for sale in White River

 

Please have a look through the seller's ratings. Again, this is conjecture - but I suspect that most of the folks buying from her are relatively new to BoB. So, they have few if any ratings. Who will believe these newbies if they challenge someone with a loooong track record?

 

Then, if the seller were making LARGE amounts of money from a few people/sales - there might be more of an outcry. Given that small amounts from many are being made - is it not simply a question of needing to corral all the many unhappy buyers and putting forward a number of complaints to BoB?

 

Then again - despite there being fair clarity on the issue, the gemstone appraisal this particular seller uses is a gemval appraisal - which she pdf's and sends via email. For the example supplied above, gemval states categorically that:

 

Attention! Our database doesn't have enough statistical data to valuate stones that have weights outside of the range specified during the Step 2. Therefore the results obtained might be inaccurate.

The range in question? the carat weight of the gem.....

 

Please think through these - and other issues arising and make your own judgement/conclusions!

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MsPlod

An update on this latest post is that I have just received an email from swsnbn stating that the refund has been paid.

 

Her formula for working out gemstone value is as follows:

The appraisals are attached, web based values – to get to retail x 10 ave buying exchange rate, then x 60% which includes retail mark up and import tax (cut does not matter, color, clarity and carat weight is what matters

 

What do the gemstone experts say?

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Lukeness

Hi Ms Plod,

 

I'm somewhat confused by the above. Firstly I'm not sure why anything would be times ten, I've never heard of a markup like that to retail. Also, surely you wouldn't still need to add a further 60%. Import taz is relevant when working out selling prices, but irrelevant in working out values. For that comparison to various other outlets of various forms is done and an average calculated on their advertised retail selling prices.

 

Contrary to that statement, cut is one of the most important factors to be considered. The gem trade is a business of selling beautiful objects, and the cut will influence the beauty greatly. Windows, fish-eyes and bad meet points can dramatically effect the final prices and precision custom gem cutting is very expensive compared to commercial, weight retention focused, cutting. Also, gemval uses cut as a criteria. So anyone using the service must surely acknowledge its importance.

 

Also, I think gemval is fine to use for indications, if used correctly, however they do not really give proper appraisals. This is from their FAQ page:

Do you provide any appraisal certificates?

 

To comply with international gemological practices, official appraisals must be done offline by a certified gemologist through direct manual examination. The estimated value obtained on Gemval.com cannot be used as a reference for any legal or official purposes. Gemval.com provides a reliable interactive tool for valuing gems, but in the final analysis, the appraisal is made by you.

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MsPlod

Thank you Lukeness!

 

Hi Ms Plod,

 

I'm somewhat confused by the above. Firstly I'm not sure why anything would be times ten, I've never heard of a markup like that to retail. Also, surely you wouldn't still need to add a further 60%. Import taz is relevant when working out selling prices, but irrelevant in working out values. For that comparison to various other outlets of various forms is done and an average calculated on their advertised retail selling prices.

 

Contrary to that statement, cut is one of the most important factors to be considered. The gem trade is a business of selling beautiful objects, and the cut will influence the beauty greatly. Windows, fish-eyes and bad meet points can dramatically effect the final prices and precision custom gem cutting is very expensive compared to commercial, weight retention focused, cutting. Also, gemval uses cut as a criteria. So anyone using the service must surely acknowledge its importance.

 

Also, I think gemval is fine to use for indications, if used correctly, however they do not really give proper appraisals. This is from their FAQ page:

 

Really appreciate your fast response! and apologise for surprising you:D Have great respect for your knowledge.

 

From what small amount I know - much of what she who shall not be named (swsnbn) wrote is fiction. Indeed, cut is important and I further really appreciate your clear distinction between 'indication' and 'appraisal'. The pdf file which I was emailed was sent very definitely as an 'appraisal' which for all sorts of reasons appears to me to be contrary to the gem forum's guidelines.

 

Thank you for your confirmation.

 

The fact that it is mostly new BoBbers that fall for the tricks makes it easier for swsnbn to persist with these scams. Newbies have few - if any - ratings, so when the dung hits the fan - the newbies are likely to take the fall, AND - yet again - swsnbn walks in the clear. I spent several hours going through her ratings to see which other buyers had been nailed and very few of them have managed to continue on BoB after their run-in with swsnbn.

 

When asked for a response swsnbn replies with a 'doodle'

 

Very tragic!

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Lukeness

On the final "appraisals" gemval has the following at the top:

 

spacer.gif

Results of appraisal

 

Please note that the price calculated is an approximate valuation. Factors contributing to a particular gem value can only be accurately assessed during a visual check by a specialist. We recommend you use a professional appraisal service offline for a more accurate valuation.

 

 

Is that still there in the PDFs?

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MsPlod
On the final "appraisals" gemval has the following at the top:

 

Is that still there in the PDFs?

 

Yes it is there in the 'appraisal'. I think I see what you are getting at but let us take this a little further - theoretically of course:).

 

If it is advertised in an auction that an appraisal will be supplied, then surely that should actually mean an 'appraisal' and not just an indication from gemval? Anyone can go on gemval and get an idea of what gems are worth.

 

All other gem sellers (from whom I have purchased gems) who have advertised an appraisal - have actually delivered something relatively substantial - albeit possibly a little inflated at times. Inflation I can deal with - pure fiction more or less pushes me a bit farther towards the direction of my lawyer;).

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Lukeness

That is my sentiment. I believe that if these are being offered as appraisals the listings should include that quote, or something similar, to indicate exactly what the buyer will be receiving. This is just my opinion, however.

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MsPlod

Taken as an opinion - you won't ever be held to it I promise. Thank you for giving me a lot to think about though.:)

 

That is my sentiment. I believe that if these are being offered as appraisals the listings should include that quote, or something similar, to indicate exactly what the buyer will be receiving. This is just my opinion, however.

 

I have just had a number of SNCs issued by the seller. Am seriously considering appealling them since swsnbn is insisting that I paid late.

 

As far as I am concerned, this is not the reason for this transaction not going ahead - and have written proof of the fact.

 

Anyone else out there have a similar experience? What say you - is it worth arguing the point or should I just let swsnbn get away with this nonsense again?:confused:

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MsPlod

that was 2007 - this is now??

 

Sorry I have just found this is not even a stock photo but in fact a another fraudulent listing This same photo was used to sell theses two tanzanites and I guarantee that they were NOT VVS tanzanites the size was .28ct

Now the same photo is used to sell .15 ct tanzanites How is this possible to have the same photo on different size tanzanites?

Listing 1 Login Page

Listing 2

Login Page

Listing for this Wednesday

Tanzanites - ONE PAIR OF FLAWLESS TANZANITES !!! INCL. APPRAISAL for sale in White River

Does this seller really think we are too blind to notice?

 

Rather fascinating...

I'm finding it all VERY fascinating!:confused:

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qball
Taken as an opinion - you won't ever be held to it I promise. Thank you for giving me a lot to think about though.:)

 

 

 

I have just had a number of SNCs issued by the seller. Am seriously considering appealling them since swsnbn is insisting that I paid late.

 

As far as I am concerned, this is not the reason for this transaction not going ahead - and have written proof of the fact.

 

Anyone else out there have a similar experience? What say you - is it worth arguing the point or should I just let swsnbn get away with this nonsense again?:confused:

 

Please appeal, if you don't, the system will automatically find you at fault after 7 days.

 

Thanks

Cuan

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MsPlod
Please appeal, if you don't, the system will automatically find you at fault after 7 days.

 

Thanks

Cuan

 

Thanks Cuan - I did appeal, and the appeal went through so fast that within what seemed like minutes, my appeal was accepted. :) All praise to BoB (Morne in this instance) for administrative excellence.

 

Really appreciate you coming back to me with your response!:D

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MsPlod

I admit it - I was sooo wrong!

 

There ARE two of them still with the same photo - only different sizes

Takes a clever gem cutter to pull that off!

Tanzanites - .65CTS TANZANITE!! R6,600.00 VALUE APPRAISAL SUPPLIED for sale in White River

Tanzanites - LARGE VS1 .50CTS TANZANITE!! R5,700.00 VALUE APPRAISAL SUPPLIED for sale in White River

 

A THIRD one with the same photo was sold last night:

Tanzanites - VS1 .50CTS TANZANITE!! R5,700.00 VALUE APPRAISAL SUPPLIED for sale in White River

Lucky buyer...:confused: Exceptional colour for such small gems - very lucky buyer!!

 

things to note....

1 - this is a continuation of a thread that has been closed - my mistake for thinking things had been resolved - hope it is OK to post more on the same topic within the same forum?

2 - Value appraisal supplied - :confused: presumably a pdf from gemval via email. So no gem expert has presumably laid eyes on these?

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MsPlod

Decimal point clarity?

 

Almost all gem sellers on BoB are wonderfully scrupulous in making quite sure that the size of a gem is reflected unambiguously... HOWEVER!

 

The listing of this example makes it a bit difficult to see at a glance whether the size of the gem is - 0.5 or 1.5 - or even 50 carats - particularly with the word "LARGE" attached to what is admittedly a rather tiny gemstone? :confused:

 

Tanzanites - LARGE VS1 .50CTS TANZANITE!! R5,700.00 VALUE APPRAISAL SUPPLIED for sale in White River

 

Should not decimal points be unambiguously stated - so that for any gem under one carat (or auction lot less than one carat) the zero is clearly reflected?

 

e.g. VS1 0.5ct?

 

And - I remain confused as to why this particular stone - and the one following - have exactly the same appearance - despite being different sizes?:confused:

 

Oh yes, and then there IS also the matter of the appraisal?:rolleyes:

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MsPlod

Different bidding on different gem traders!

 

There is a remarkable difference in the bidding right now for different gem traders with rather different ratings.

 

A gem (tanzanite) of 1 trader (96.94%) - 0.50ct VS1 is currently going for R301.00

 

Another by a different trader (99.71%) - 1.92ct VS1 is currently R280.00

 

It is quite something... Fascinating to observe!

 

Hot bidding...:confused:

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MsPlod

Problem with mathematics...

 

Since I am unable to ask a question of this seller - having been "barred for life" from buying tanzanites from her :P - I am unable to let her know that her mathematics is rather problematic...

 

0.20 x 4 = 0.80 and not 1.00

 

Tanzanites - VVS 1.00CTS TANZANITES .20CTS EACH for sale in White River

 

Would someone be kind enough to mention this to the trader in question?

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Lukeness

I suppose they're being sold individually at their listed weights of 0.20cts so it doesn't actually effect the items sold.

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