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Community Watch - Gemstone forum only

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jbelstead

Further to my "situation" with Gem search, I am pleased to inform everyone that the matter has been resolved.

 

I laid an official complaint through the correct channels, and Chantal has come forward with issuing me replacement gems plus a full refund.

 

Pity I had to resort to drastic measures to get satisfaction.

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Southerns

Glad to hear that it all worked out in the end.

 

Regards

Shane

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JohanGEls

Checking validity of gemstones

 

Hi All,

 

Having BOB set guidelines i.t.o gemstone trading is a big step in the right direction. The problem will however still remain that newbies buying gemstones may be duped in believing that what they buy is the real mccoy.

 

I am in the LIMS industry, and as such prefer an analytical addition to the normal gemstone grading guides i.e. color, SG, cut, RI etc. We in conjunction with a SANAS accredited laboratory are researching and profiling gemstones on a molecular level. Example, a ruby has a specific SG and all may seem well, but rubies from burma vs. rubies from africa etc have different molecular compositions i.t.o the base elements contained. We are setting up a website where qualified gemologists can register and the average joe can submit their gems for (a) listing i.t.o the actual stone, (b) grading from a registered gemologist with the certificate available from a secure server and © a laboratory graded element certificate in addition to the gemologist grading cetificate.

 

The aim of this is 5 fold. 1. Have a centralized listing of QUALIFIED gemologists, 2. Creating a contact point for the gem owners and gemologists, 3. Building a on-line database i.t.o gem ownership (If you bought a 2ct + burmese ruby, which is rare, you want to check that it is from a reputeable dealer AND NOT a "blood" ruby) and 4. Have a always available gem history i.t.o your gem from anywhere at anytime(Qualities, change of ownerships etc) - 5. GET IMMITATION/FAKE GEMS OFF THE MARKET.

 

This will add to the value of a traceable gemstone vs the same quality gemstone - untraced. Listed traced stones will have a UNIQUE registration number wich any prospective buyer can trace via a secure channel on the web server.

 

Cost wise:

From what we've worked out: Registering as a QUALIFIED gemologist will be an annual fee of +/- R100 irrespective of how many clients contact you via the website, Costs Getting gems graded etc will be at the discretion of the gemologist. On-line grading and quality posting for a Gemstone +/- R50 per year. Ownership changing will be an admin fee of R10 per change. Analytical Laboratory certificate will have a base price and will NOT fluctuate i.t.o gem: meaning, you will pay exactly the same for a 0.5 ct gem as a 50ct diamond - the process is the same. We are using NON-DESTRUCTIVE methods, so there will be NO damage to any gemstone whatsoever; costing will be available soon, but it should not be more than R60 once off per gem.

 

ALL the costs will be purely for (a) SSL security license for the server, Web-server rental including any additional back-up devices etc. (b) admin costs for a secure channel for changing ownership info.

 

I welcome reps from EGL and such organisations to contact me for any additional info. If anyone else interested in registering as a QUALIFIED gemologist, or enquire about the service etc feel free to contact me on [edited -admin]

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Celebrity Jewels

How is this?

 

Hi All

 

After an extended absence from the forum due to avoidance of analyzing all the competition (specifically those that myself and other experts believe could possibly be misleading buyers and getting away with it!!), I came across this item today and went blood red, the colour of the ruby. I have been scratching my head lately wondering why I was getting R1 for items that seemingly are worth R100 000's to some sellers. Honest is the name of the game and I can only hope that these cowboys do not bankrupt the honest sellers due to their misleading info. It is not even about using gemval any more to value stock, but actually lying about origins, treatments and more. Below is what caught my attention.

 

Please take a look at this item and the contradiction of the valued price (Indicative Market Price R135,550.00) to the listing which gives a much lower value in $ - look thoroughly at the whole listing including what made me alert which is the ask seller question and answer at the bottom which I will cut and paiste at the bottom in case it is deleted from the listing.

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/8708956/_R135550_00_VALUE_NATURAL_MOGOK_BURMA_RUBY_3_04CTS_APPRAISAL_SUPPLIED.html

 

To make matters worse he states that he has personally been to Burma to get these when the photo is taken off ebay (the camera logo is standard ebay seller upload pic). Make your own deductions on that one but it is possible it could have been purchased on eBay and in fact the seller did not go to Burma to collect for his clients particularly at this time of turmoil after the recent natural disasters there. Not even UN are allowed in.

 

Surely this is tantamount to selling a fake rolex under the pretence that it is real. This is not the only seller doing this. There are many ripping buyers off. I have been told that nothing can be done until there is a complaint.

 

Is prevention not better for everybody (including Bidorbuy) than cure?

 

Please can we all get the community watch side of the forum back in to full swing and rid the site of misleading listings.

 

Regards

 

Brian

 

 

Sellers Quotes:

 

"THIS IS A MESSAGE TO OTHER SELLERS ON BOB WHO CANNOT GET THEIR HANDS ON MOGOK BURMA RUBIES: I HAVE JUST RETURNED FROM ABROAD WITH A NUMBER OF THESE RUBIES THAT I HAND SELECTED FOR MY BUYERS, YOU ARE WELCOME TO BID AND BUY THEM TOO IF YOU LIKE AND HAVE THEM CHECKED OUT FOR YOURSELF!"

 

Q & A:

 

Q dear sir , why is the ruby estimated R135'550,00] VALUE NATURAL MOGOK BURMA RUBY 3.04CTS APPRAISAL SUPPLIED then further down the page it is Value:USD 9967.88 - Asked by xxxxx (no ratings) 04 Aug 00:19

A (gemval offers a web trader estimate, to get to a retail estimate multiply the amount by 50% mark-up then add exchange rate $ to Rands i.e. 8.25 plus import taxes 10% ) to obtain retails value, it is better however to use the web trader estimate for insurance purposes, so you are not over insured, this is the wholesale value 04 Aug 07:28

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Lukeness

Perhaps someone who has dealt with this seller can chime in or contact the seller and ask him or her to post a response here...

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Celebrity Jewels

All

 

Hi Luke

 

it is not just this one seller doing this. If you scan the gemstone section there are quite a few.

 

I would call for any buyers or fellow sellers who are concerned to post here on this thread so we can all work together and outlaw false listings. I do agree that it cannot be up to Bidorbuy to police everything and certainly without a complaint they cannot take action.

But, by us posting here we can bring evidence and concerns to the surface and support Bidorbuy in their effort to keep this site the finest and biggest auction site in Africa.

 

Regards

Brian

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Celebrity Jewels

Hi All

 

I know this is a duplicate of what I have poster on the thread "Burmese Rubies" but I think that the subject is appropriate on both threads as it is a gemstone community watch issue as well as a Burmese Ruby issue.

 

A very good associate of mine just sent me this link with regards to Mogok Rubies. Not only will you notice the rarety and typical treatments but take a look at the price of the 3,69 Cts one on the right hand side (middle). Yes, a whopping Euro 14,100 - 00.

 

http://www.mogok-rubies.com/index.html

 

And more importantly - the below link will show the right certificates to accompany any sale - BRILLIANT!

 

http://www.mogok-rubies.com/gemstones_certificates.html

 

In this light let us all take another look at the below listing on Bidorbuy:

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/8708956/_R135550_00_VALUE_NATURAL_MOGOK_BURMA_RUBY_3_04CTS_APPRAISAL_SUPPLIED.html

 

 

I rest my case and hope for some more members to get involved.

 

Regards

 

Brian

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motherearth

well done Brian, I believe the time for talking is over, and we should actually do something about this! , I will help finance exposing these fraudsters and would advise anyone who has bought Rubies recently to get them checked by a reputable Laboratory

 

regards Jeff.

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alloway65

Very interesting post...thanks to all contributers and educators.

 

I have more or less given up buying Gemstones on BoB, apart from buying occasionally from 3 sellers I trust....the whole scenerio is becoming a farce.

 

I fail to see the economic sense "for a seller to go to Burma", buy a few "rubies" value them at over one hundred grand each and then sell them for say R500 each......the sums don't tie up...I would not like to be a partner in this venture.

 

Keep up the good work on the Forum.

 

David.

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motherearth

@ alloway65

 

It is sad that so many people do not share your common sense!

 

In just a few lines you have totally summed up the whole issue!

 

come on people "wake up!"

 

Jeff.

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pepper007

Hi

 

What would the genuine gem sellers suggest buyers do to eliminate this type of seller? I'm not going to be purchasing anything from this particular seller (all three of her) in the future, stones are not great at all (even I in my vast inexperience can recognize ***) and I was very surprised to read in one of the posts that someone's jeweller had broken the exact Morganite that I won!! They say photo's don't lie but ja ...:shock:

 

I've only recently started buying gems, am trying to learn as fast as I can. I really enjoy bidding on the sparklies and am now wondering if all I'm going to be sitting with at the end of the day are bits of worthless glass :?

 

By the way, can anyone tell me what "doodle" means?

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Lukeness

Doodle as in scribbled picture?

lol

 

The best way for buyers and sellers to prevent this is to educate themselves (and each other) as much as possible so that it gets harder and harder for people to do business like this.

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pepper007

Thanks for clearing up the doodle bit ... my point exactly ... stones are the same :D

 

On the subject of education, can you suggest a good book? I'm doing most of my research online ... get's tedious sifting through stuff

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Lukeness

There are lots of written and online resources. Send me me a PM so we can go through some.

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motherearth

Wilkipedia - online - can be a good reference point for basic information.

 

Jeff

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Ryansta

Hi there

Firstly mt apologies if this post is in the wrong forum, not to sure where it should be?

Anyways i would like to know all these gemstones, the selling price and actual value difference seem far to large, why is that? Are most/all stones real? I am looking to become a collector but family and friends are warning me against it because of these huge price differences. I still am awaiting a reply from VictoryGems (660) for http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=10011757 and am hoping my first purchase of stones isn't a bad one.

If anyone can list sellers wit the best deals and service, as my judgement doesn't seem to keen.

Thanks

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alloway65

"If anyone can list sellers wit the best deals and service, as my judgement doesn't seem to keen.

Thanks."

 

PM Me and I will tell you the seller(s) I trust!!!!

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Lukeness

What is your main aim in buying gemstones? Do you want to collect or are you looking for potential investments? Are you looking at getting pieces set in jewellery?

There can be pitfalls in many areas. If we know what your ideas are we may be better able to assist you.

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Ryansta

Investment was the main idea.

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victorygems

Hi Ryansta,

 

Wecome to the forum and the interesting world of the gemstones.

 

My advice to you would be to educate yourself well on this topic before you start buying, there are a lot to learn and you will find lots of info on the web.

 

Listing good sellers and bad sellers on the forum would be looking for trouble, and will depend on individual opinion anyway. The best way to judge is to look at each sellers ratings and make your own decision.

 

Price differances do occur because of quality differances and cost and does not mean one is a fake and the other isn't. The differance between selling price and estimated retail value, well that is a topic that has been debated on this forum for ages and I do not want to get into that again.

 

Anyway, I received your payment today and will ship your parcel tomorrow. I will send your tracking tracking no. to you tomorrow as well

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Lukeness

victorygems is dead right. If you want to invest in gemstones you need to educate yourself as much as possible to ensure that you buy well.

 

If there are specific stone types and issues you would like to raise we can help you as much as possible. There are many sellers here selling excellent stones that are potentially very good investments, you need to learn more about the stones so that you do not need to rely on the seller's information.

 

If you can achieve that, you will be less dependant on descriptions and understand the issues pertaining to quality, treatments and synthetics and in a good position to make educated decisions before you bid.

 

There are many good resources available online.

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Ryansta

Where's a good place to start learning and gain info? I was particularly interested in tanzanites as i heard they were more rare and valuble than diamond, but what stones make the best investments? I did do research on clarity codes cuts and colour on tanza's, obviously the higher the carrot the beta depending on the other three, but for example TANZANITE(seller) say colour as a value of 169, but I wasn"t able to find out was code or measuring they were using, i found like AAA or AA etc. So point me in the right direction please.

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Lukeness

Some sellers use different grading systems, there are several. If in doubt ask.

Familiarise yourself with the gemstone selling guide on Bid or Buy. Much of the basic info is covered there.

 

For coloured stones, colour is most important.

 

PM me for more formal resources if you'd like.

Wikipedia and google searches will also provide a wealth of info

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Celebrity Jewels
Where's a good place to start learning and gain info? I was particularly interested in tanzanites as i heard they were more rare and valuble than diamond, but what stones make the best investments? I did do research on clarity codes cuts and colour on tanza's, obviously the higher the carrot the beta depending on the other three, but for example TANZANITE(seller) say colour as a value of 169, but I wasn"t able to find out was code or measuring they were using, i found like AAA or AA etc. So point me in the right direction please.

 

Hi Ryansta, Tanzanites are said to be more Rare now than diamonds because there is of course only the one source - Tanzania. However, I am sure that the others will agree that for now Diamonds are far more valuable.

Regards

Brian

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Cali Craft and Gems

Hi

 

I feel I must add my 2 pennies worth here being a gem buyer and seller myself.

 

Newbies must keep in mind that some sellers actually exaggerate the values of the gems - and sometimes to mindblowing proportions! I often get asked what the value of XYZ is, but do not like to impose a value to the item as I am not a gemologist nor a valuator so cannot do so accurately and with total honesty.

 

It breaks my heart to see the newbies being taken for a ride - I too was once "new" to the trade and if I knew then what I know now, I could have saved myself thousands of rands!

 

In my listings, if it states rare or uncommon, then it is. But if there is no indication to the gem being as such, then to pay several hundred rands for a few carats is beyond me.

 

I know that this may be stepping on a few toes here, but as a seller I would rather move more items at a lower price, than a mere handful at exorbitant prices - we all know what the "going" rate is out there.

 

So, to Ryansta, by all means bid to the value you see fit and what you are willing to pay for an item, but do not base your bid on the "value" as stated in the listing (where applicable). Use your savvy! You're buying gems from the best place possible (in most cases) - if you are prepared to pay thousands for the same thing, then go to a jeweller!

 

But as always, feel free to ask questions and don't hesitate to seek advice from "those in the know"!

 

Kind regards,

Cali Craft

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