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expressions

Lukeness, I dont know if ANYTHING will change. Look at Gemsoup's listings Gem Search' Pseudo is Blatantly selling with the retail value in the Caption - And there will be no action taken, or perhaps like with the Website referrals, it will also take 2 weeks to rectfiy.

It just feels like despite the effort in the draft, some could not be bothered less about something that has no repercussions if disobeyed. As we are all aware, they are guidelines and not rules.

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expressions
Hi gem shop,

 

We acknowledge your concerns.

 

What was not emphasized was the "teeth" that are there when the sellers are "uncovered".

 

The guide lines have the necessary weight to stop the rot and DO have 100% support from BoB.

 

billibo

admin

 

Where are the teeth ? Gem Soup Is WELL aware of the guidelines and has been uncovered.

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expressions

Are we allowed to have more than 1 account on bob?

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Ruby Tuesday Trading

Genstone Selling Guide

 

I have noted your published gemstone selling guide and related posts with interest. I am working towards compliance - admittedly in what feels like slow motion at present (as I have other fish to fry) but I do intend getting there soon with new auctions to be created and posted.

 

I do, however, find the content of some new so-called compliant gem auctions somewhat unpalatable, if not borderline defamatory, in which certain sellers seem determined to instigate what seems pretty much like a witchhunt against "non-compliant" sellers. Please see below from Item ID: 4410348 :

 

Before you buy please have a look at this too

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/static/help/GemstoneSellingGuidelines.html

 

We are committed to the regulations

 

When you buy a Gemstone from us you'll get what you bid on

 

We recommend that you do not buy from sellers that do not or would not comply to the rules and regulations and to report such sellers immediately

 

I think it is useful for buyers to be informed of the guidelines and be provided with a link but for one seller to recommend that buyers do not buy from "non-compliant" sellers and report them is pushing the principles to the extreme. Such a recommendation can only come from Bid or Buy itself if it in fact views the guide as prescriptive and not a mere guideline and certainly not from a gem seller who has a vested and monetary interest in persuading buyers not to buy from other sellers.

 

Furthermore, is it correct to describe the guide as "rules and regulations" which implies they are mandatory or is it just a guideline?

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Lukeness

BoB has agreed to the terms laid out in the guidelines. They have however stated that policing would be left up to members. These structures are now is place and any non-compliant sellers who are using misleading listings will go through the process. Those who fail to do so will have details forwarded to BoB security and the matter dealt with.

 

This is not and should not be about a witch-hunt. There is NO REASON for any seller to refuse to follow the guidelines. Doing to is tantamount to stating that they wish to mislead and condone fraudulent listings.

 

I hope this clarifies your concerns.

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expressions

I agree with you lukeness, artshop has taken the initaitive to at least start the tedious process of conforming and it will take her and ALL the non-compliant sellers a while. We understand that it is easy to copy and relist and I have also let the odd one slip up. But my beef is with sellers that are AWARE of the guidelines. Take today, for expample - there is a certain seller (who has 3 accounts) that has blatantly REFUSED to follow it. All that this seller is PROVING is that She is untouchable as far as BOB security is concerned. (Go look at our beloved "kashmir" ). This seller has NO FEAR of ANY RULES made by BOB. There is yet again weblinks appearing. Thanks yet again to all of the sellers that are honest.

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Lukeness

Please read the post marked URGENT in the gemstone section.

This and other sellers will be dealt with.

Unfortunately I cannot dedicate all my time to this so it will take time. We are well aware that some sellers will need time to put everything set out ion the guideline in place. However, sellers who claim to have done so but have not, are committing fraud. Plain and simple.

 

We are all a pretty tolerant bunch, but will not stand for people blatantly lying and flouting the rules.

 

It's been too long that they have given everyone else who tries hard the finger.

 

Should this/these sellers continue, they will face extreme consequences.

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Ruby Tuesday Trading

Thanks for the reply Lukeness. Let me clarify: I believe the guidelines are good and useful. Fraudulent advertising is unacceptable and a blatant refusal to implement the guidelines in one's gem business will undoubtedly result in an adverse inference being arrived at about that seller's business ethics.

 

I guess my issue lies with self-policing. In principle, self-policing in any community is a good idea as the more eyes and ears on the ground, the greater the chances of success of the initiative. However, self-policing in this particular context needs to be done with care by the members of the community so as not to cross the line regarding (1) the borderline defamation I referred to (some ads may be non-compliant in some respects but are nevertheless perfectly honest and do not disadvantage the buyer in any way at all) and (2) holding oneself out to be perfectly compliant (and are not) yet go about casting stones about other sellers. The latter point makes me think of the Biblical concept of removing the log from one's own eye before looking for a speck of dust in one's brother's eye!

 

Purely as an aside, I don't think these sort of statements in a gem ad are particularly attractive or appropriate. Yes, the buyer must be educated but you don't see these kind of side swipe statements being made in the conventional, printed media for instance.

 

In conclusion, it is nevertheless good that something is being done in an attempt to clamp down on the fraudulent misrepresentations. There are probably no easy answers but it is encouraging to see that many people are endeavouring to improve the situation. I'm sure it is just a matter of time before all the details of handling the nitty gritties of implementation all round are ironed out.

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Lukeness

ArtShop, my apologies if my post conveyed the wrong message. It is clear that you are trying to implement rules and are not trying to deceive.

 

I agree with you that care is needed, which is why the process is taking time.

 

Sellers who are throwing around accusations while themselves grossly flouting not only the guidelines but even the law in certain cases must, and will be dealt with in time. We do however need to tread carefully or risk failure.

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Gem Shop

These sellers had listings on todays crazy sale with total disregard for the guidelines and as long as they don't and wont conform all your work will be for nothing...and yes they are aware of the guidelines

Serious

Bountyhunter 11 listings and not one (according to me) within the guidelines

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4503477

Diamond_gems 5 listing and not one (according to me) within the guidelines

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4503008

 

Starting to get better At least they are slowly trying to get in line and I have to say Well done!

Just someone to explain the 'stock photo' concept to them

Gem search

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4498767

Tanzanite Express (Previously Gemsoup)

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4494813

 

And then there is REDHAWK no response from him so we dont even know if he is real.

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Lukeness

BountyHunter & Diamond_gems, please respond here re your listings. Also, please provide the source for your valuations.

 

Thanks

 

Gem search, please explain your use of "stock pictures" (it has been pointed out that many of them are 1. Not of the actual stones being sold 2. Listed as the actual image when it appears in multiple listings 3. Pictures of a totally different type of stone and 4. Taken from outside sources who hold copyright on the images and have not authorised their use, clearly these are not of "stock" - we have the urls and links the the originals available ) and the apparent differences between the gemval values you state on your listings and those given by gemval using the data you supply in your listings. Your listings state that your listings are in compliance with the guidelines so your response is expected soon. Also, you cannot claim retail values based on a gemval appraisal. To add 40% across the board is simply not how it works.

 

 

REDHAWK, your input at this time would be appreciated. I have sent a message directing you here.

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expressions

OK. This is for everyone to Study, Meditate upon and Come back with an honest answer.

1. Are ALL GEM sellers obliged to use the "guidelines" when placing an add on BoB.

2. If Answer to above is yes, then:

2.a: How long do all the sellers have to comply - is there a deadline of

some kind?

2.b:What are the consequences of transgressing the "guidelines"

 

Please think about this and get back with answers, as we are bickering and fighting like toothless dogs.

We need CLEAR ANSWERS. It does not help we complain about Gemsearch, Bountyhunter and Diamond Gems ETC. If these rules simply dont have ANY repercussions. If there are no DEFINITE answers then it can be agreed that All the hard work was IN VAIN.

Thanks

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expressions

Ok guys and gals, here is something to really ponder

 

Geology Professor to class;

 

"Don't ever take rocks for granite!"

 

 

Customer: "How old is this diamond?"

 

Salesman: "Three million and three years old."

 

Customer: "My gosh, how can you be so precise?"

 

Salesman: "It was three million years old when I started here, and I've been here three years."

 

How many goldsmiths does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

None, thats apprentice work.

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Gem Shop

was bountyhunter and diamond_gems invited to the forum or are they exempt from the new guidelines....

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Lukeness

They have been invited here.

I am currently addressing what action can be taken with BoB security.

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Gem Shop

yes I see the friday listings is again full of their adds...Its just as if they have now thrown down the gauntlet and is daring BOB to dare and do anything against them...and how is BOB going to react...the whole world waits..... 8)

to find out tune in again next week... :P

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thegemster

Blacklist them for a week, That will get their attention

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expressions

Problem is this.

dont bite the hand that feeds you.... even if the hand feeds you crap now and then. They provide good income and why do you want to get rid (or suspend someone) that pays you for your service?

The rules are dead. The above mentioned sellers prove it.

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expressions

The only way to get their attention is Via the legal system of the country. They are committing ONLINE FRAUD.

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Gem Shop

Come on guys lets give Luke and the team a couple of days more...lets see if BOB take a stand. If nothing by Wednesday lets all take up the sticks, the mice and the keyboards...

 

 

Shame on you Bountyhunter and Diamond_gems

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SkyeCreations

Definately much better. Still quite a number of the bigger guys aren't falling in line yet. And on the jewelry side - still far too many 'diamonds' that are actually CZ's / glass or other.

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