Community Watch - Gemstone forum only

[admin 4]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Community Watch - Gemstone forum only

---------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This thread is for any concerns or problems found with listings/adverts as stipulated in the Gemstone Selling Guide ( http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/static/help/GemstoneSellingGuidelines.html ).

 

It is open to all members. If you find a problematic listing/advert, please complete the following procedure:

 

1. State the nature of the complaint (e.g. Listing misleading because of photograph, listing fails to state treatments, etc.);

2. Provide a link to the listing/advert;

3. Describe in detail what the complaint is.

 

Thereafter, Lukeness (as he formulated the Guide and is therefore well acquainted with it), will review the complaint and state whether or not the listing/advert is in violation of the Selling Guide and what, if any, measures need to be taken to correct the listing.

 

Should the listing/advert not be corrected promptly and completely, the case will be transferred to Bid or Buy security for further action to be taken against the seller in question.

 

Sellers who repeatedly violate the guidelines set out will also be passed over to BoB security for action with a history of offenses.

 

PLEASE NOTE: Complaints related to issues which are unrelated to those covered by the Guide but still are against the rules set out by BoB (Shill bidding, showing contact details, etc) should be posted in the main Community Watch forum.

[Lukeness 10]

So here it starts...

 

Great!

 

Now we all have an opportunity to get things how we believe they should be. So let's use it.

 

I've noticed a few very scary listings up already, but will wait until tomorrow evening before commenting.

 

Please guys, post any listings you believe illustrate foul play.

Let's just remember that this is meant to keep all traders on an even keel, we aren't out to get Joe Soap who's trying to flog off something he picked up, we're trying to ensure that established gem traders play fair.

 

Full, honest disclosure is all that is asked.

 

Now, let the games begin...

[SkyeCreations 10]

Will this be in reference to gemstones only or gemstones and jewellry?

[Lukeness 10]

Anything with gemstones

[Gem Shop 10]

the first

 

I cannot see anywhere that this seller is specifying that she is using stock photos

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4334571

The photo used here was also used in other auctions I know because I was mislead/fooled twice with this add

[Lukeness 10]

Gem search, please rectify the listing if this is the case or respond here if it is not.

 

Thanks.

[Gem Shop 10]

Sorry I have just found this is not even a stock photo but in fact a another fraudulent listing This same photo was used to sell theses two tanzanites and I guarantee that they were NOT VVS tanzanites the size was .28ct

Now the same photo is used to sell .15 ct tanzanites How is this possible to have the same photo on different size tanzanites?

Listing 1 http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=3718353

Listing 2

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=3707159

Listing for this Wednesday

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4334571

Does this seller really think we are too blind to notice?

[Gem Shop 10]

can two .015ct tanzanites sell at R15600 per carat? or around $2228 per carat? Not even AAA Dblocks over a carat sells for this on the international market...Should the gemval values not be displayed so we can see how the seller got to her value of R2340 for these gems as per regulation 8.5 of the gemstone guide?

I am just asking to make sure that we as sellers are clear that we interpret the regulations correctly

Thanks

[Gem Shop 10]

I do not want to sound like a broken gramaphone but can someone explain how a seller in NEW York and a seller in witrivier sell the exact same lot?

http://cgi.ebay.com/TANZANITE-GEM-ROUND-NATURAL-TANZANITES-LOT-PARCEL_W0QQitemZ300132392690QQihZ020QQcategoryZ10269QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

and this listing

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4425593

rules 2.1 , 2.2, 2.3, 2.5 and 2.8

[gem search 10]

doodle

[Lukeness 10]

Let's try and keep this controllable otherwise it will never work.

 

Please, if you have queries, combine them. Previous posts can be edited if anything needs adding. Just add a note in the post to reflect this.

 

That way we can attempt to address the issues together.

 

 

Let's address the issue of Stock Pictures.

 

Here are the important things to consider:

 

1. It is deceptive to use any pictures or illustrations in any part of the advertisement which may, along with other visual aspects including but not limited to text or graphics, misrepresent the article being sold in any way.

 

4. Should there be any possibility of variance in any aspects of the product as portrayed by the image, these must be clearly identified.

 

5. When stock images are used, it is assumed that the image comes from the actual items in stock. Sellers cannot use images of alternative stones from other sources as this is considered an attempt to mislead. Stock photos must portray and accurate representation of the gemstone on offer.

 

8. Under no circumstances should images of similar goods from other sources be used as a representation of your product.

 

 

Do the images portrayed reflect all of the above?

 

 

Lukeness, this is not the case GEMSHOP cannot read even with those BIG specs on! Gem shop look for this on ALL my auctions - quote: Photo's on auction are stock photo's unless otherwise stipulated " unquote

then an apology will be in order, as usual.

 

Thank you Gemsearch, please point out where on your listings this text is placed. My apologies but I can't seem to find it either. Although I could quite easily be the one at fault here.

[Gem Shop 10]

oops took me half an hour to find that clause under SHIPPING and other charges.

why would you put it there and not in the actual add ? On reading the add a reasonable person will be under the impression (specially the small written piece at the bottom ) that this was a photo of the real thing....and why would you use a stock photo you used for a .28ct tanzanite for a .15 ct tanzanite . Surely they are not the same thing?

And I just happened to notice this listing and remembered you sold me the same thing a while back so I checked?...Rather just fix it so nobody will think you are trying to deceive them

[gem search 10]

doodle

[Lukeness 10]

Please first allow Gemsearch to respond.

 

As far as the notice of stock photos goes, I've now seen where it is placed.

Please remember that this needs to be placed prominently to ensure that buyers see it.

[Gem Shop 10]

Luke I take it you will take this response up with bob? Its not the question of using stockphotos but for goodness gracious dont mislead people by one week using a photo for one tanzanite and the next week for a completely different one...

[Lukeness 10]

I see you posted before me there.

 

Gemsearch, BoB has posted the guidelines for us to use and we are following their instructions to the letter so I'm perplexed as to why you no longer want to support this endeavour.

 

I will categorically state right now that I will not entertain any kind of victimisation by anyone against any sellers and will remain as objective as possible in all instances. But we do need to address the issues at hand.

 

If you have issues with other seller's listings, then please, post them here and they will be addressed too. The guidelines will not favour any parties. They are meant to level the playing-field and we cannot allow for any bias.

 

I hope this reassures anyone who has doubts as to the integrity of this process.

 

Now can we please return to the issue at hand and address it. I have no wish to make huge issues out of every listing.

[Lukeness 10]

One more point. This is not eBay or Bizdotcom or any other online auction house. The fact the BoB has given the go ahead to this is indicative of their commitment to both buyers and sellers.

 

Our entire intention here is to ensure the Bid or Buy stays in its own league and maintains even higher standards.

 

The guidelines do nothing but promote FAIR TRADE and DISCLOSURE. To reject what is stated in the guidelines is basically refusing to adhere to these principles.

 

We are trying to ensure that Bid or Buy remains FIRST CHOICE for South African buyers and sellers.

[gem search 10]

doodle

[GemDeals 10]

I have seen some gemstone sellers that seem unaware about the new change of rules. Firstly thanks to all involved parties for all you are doing for the Buyers.

 

Now to start it seems these sellers did not notice the rule change it seems we will need to invite them onto the forum so that we can confirm that they know of this. They are:

 

Mother earth:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4376926

Redhawk:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4043412

Bounty hunter:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4298843

Daimond_gems:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4383021

talhita:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4392579

Romantica:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4413527

Marias gems:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4407519

Rusie:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4317659

GemsRus:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4343079

Baya1:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4331430

Perkal gifts:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4424834

Gemsworld:

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=4273790

 

I just quickly went through the gemstone area. So I may be wrong.

 

Chris.

[admin 4]

Before this thread gets out of hand, let us take a step back and reflect.

 

Originally, from the idea of the "gem stone advertising parameters", was to have a set of "rules" on BoB. Enforceable rules. These "rules" were drawn up and submitted to BoB.

 

After discussion with BoB management, it was decided that a "guide line" would be in the interest of all parties.

 

This guide line would not be "policed" by BoB management, but by sellers and buyers of gem stones. Note the words "sellers" and "buyers" - persons with no interest in gem stones should not be bothered to report here or even read further...

 

If the poll that started all of this had been followed, it will be found that the question of when all the changes should come about in order to comply with new guide line has been addressed.

 

Obviously, it can not happen overnight, nor in two or three weeks time. There are various factors that will prohibit this. So, it will have to occur over time.

 

BoB has yet to make a formal announcement about the gem stone guide line, although the guide line has been posted in the gem category on the auction site.

 

One suggestion is, if an advert is seen on bidorbuy, and in the readers opinion, does not fall within the guide line, a polite note be placed in the sellers action/buy now Q&A section, asking if the advert complies to the gem stone guide line and then inviting the the seller to the gem stone forum.

 

There are many sellers and buyers who are not members of this forum.

 

To close this off, please do not surf the gemstone section just to harvest suspect items and then post them here - lukeness does not have the time to check hundreds of items.

 

If you are a genuine buyer and have a problem with an item which you are interested in, and feel does not comply with the guide line, by all means post your concern here.

 

If you are seller of gem stones and feel a NEWLY POSTED item is blatantly contravening the guide line, post your concern here.

[GemDeals 10]

I did not mean my post to be an attack on anyone. I just tried to sum up the people who didn't have any change in their auctions to see who may not know about the new Rules/Guidlines.

[Gem Shop 10]

inflated gem prices=bigger bids=more commission

 

I can now see what a difficult/impossible task its going to be to get sellers to abide by the rules since it seems that the new guidelines seems to be without any teeth and that there are certain sellers that , although they proclaim to abide by the rules, show a total disregard for them. Its a pity because here was the ideal chance for bob to be a leader and to ensure that gemstones sold on bob were not misrepresented, as some sellers obviously do, and t actually keep potential buyers to stray to other auction sites like ebay. We at gemshop will however abide by the rules and hopefully buyers will get to trust us over time as sellers of genuine, uninflated gems. We now realise its going to be an uphill battle to try and win against all the not so honest sellers but in the long run we WILL get the repeat business and the others not...

So good luck to all concerned...we will keep an eye on this forum from time to time and hopefully BOB WILL take a solid stand sometime on this matter but I do not think it will happen soon as inflated gem prices lead to bigger bids and bigger bids mean more commission. I

hope I am wrong but that is the facts.

[admin 4]

Hi mulder2007,

 

We understand where you are coming form... and understand your motive in posting as you did.

 

The post had to be done to stop a potential flood gate from opening and prevent this thread from being overloaded.

 

You are going to find MANY sellers this category who do not comply.

 

Be assured, you are not attacking anyone - you have correctly highlighted the problem we have on BoB that needs to be addressed.

[admin 4]

Hi gem shop,

 

We acknowledge your concerns.

 

What was not emphasized was the "teeth" that are there when the sellers are "uncovered".

 

The guide lines have the necessary weight to stop the rot and DO have 100% support from BoB.

 

As mentioned in the post, BoB are not going to "police" this issue - the gem stone supporters will have to do this. If you read lukeness' opening post, he details as to how this is to be done.

 

If any interested party has input as to expedite this even quicker, please PM lukeness with the suggestion.

 

Further discussion on the pros and cons of what is, or what has to be done, must be posted in the sticky: "Gem stone selling guide is on the BoB site".

 

Any post NOT about a item on BoB with reference to the guide line will be deleted.

 

billibo

admin

[Lukeness 10]

Okay guys, some issues have been raised. If we persist, these will be dealt with.

What is happening now is simply self-defeating.

 

DO post any questionable listings here and allow us to try to make things happen.

 

Without your help nothing will change and we need a concerted effert on everyone's part to ensure that this is done properly.

 

I understand that some lack faith in the process and can't see the benefits or results at this stage. It is a process. It takes time. This will work, even if it happens one seller at a time.

 

So please all, let's all make this happen. We can and we will.

 

No one seller or buyer will be above this. Bring them on.