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seahorsefanatic

Sellers Listing At Heavily Inflated Prices

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seahorsefanatic

Hi All

 

Scouting through the stamps section, I was drawn to an item that was listed with a claimed catalogue value of 100 pounds and was for sale for R100.00. The stamp in question was a used copy of the Basutoland KGVI one penny red. This stamp is listed as SACC 19 and is catalogued at R10.00. I brought this to the attention of the vendor together with numerous other items that were priced way over the top.

 

Another example from the same vendor was a mixed lot of about 40 stamps they claimed was worth thousands and was selling for R500 and on looking at the stamps which were in average to poor condition, were worth no more than R5 to R10.

 

Although I know I need not buy these stamps as no-one is forcing me, the question still remains - should this practice be allowed ? We all make mistakes but looking at this vendors material it appears to me they haver no idea of value and are guessing or on a more sinister note are on the look out for gullable buyers. There are a number of their items which are hopelessly overpriced

 

I brought these items to the attention of the seller and was advised to stop harrasing him/her. Do I lodge something with the community watch ?

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admin

Hi seahorsefanatic,

 

If you can supply proof to bidorbuy, please report it to community watch.

 

1. The following policies apply to all listings and are strictly prohibited:

 

1.1. Misrepresentation of items including:

 

1.1.1 Creating titles and descriptions that do not accurately describe the item for sale.

 

 

Thank you.

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Vinyl Lady Decals

Awesome

 

If BoB can get rid of those out to make a quick buck off ignorance, that's really great.

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RISadler

Well, there's an old saying: "A price is what a fool pays for it."

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dstorm

Hello Seahorsefanatic

I think that the crux of the matter is in your very first paragraph.

an item that was listed with a claimed catalogue value of 100 pounds and was for sale for R100.00. The stamp in question was a used copy of the Basutoland KGVI one penny red. This stamp is listed as SACC 19 and is catalogued at R10.00.

 

I feel that the vendor can charge what ever price he / she wants for an item – as long as the item is correctly described.

However, if the seller is making incorrect claims about the catalogue value, it should be considered as highly unethical.

I have mentioned this before – just try to sell a computer and give incorrect specs. What will happen?

Regards

Jacques

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librashares

Misleading descriptions............

 

Today I saw another example of a misleading "mis-description", and posted the question below to the seller. The question relates to a BSAC 10 pound brown perfin used. SG cataloge numbers and values are given, yet revenue usage is not mentioned. From the sellers ratings, it is obvious that Voldermort is not a novice, therefore one can only assume that the description is deliberate- the statement is made-What you see is what you are bidding for-

My advice to"investors" is to take a print of the stamp to a dealer and ask how much he is prepared to pay for the item...................

 

Question

25 Dec 22:30

Update Question

What does mm perfin superb cond. mean? mm usually means mounted mint. This is a revenue perfin showing the date month and year of USAGE. It is wrong and misleading to quote the SG unused value when the Barefoot value for revenue usage would be the correct listing.my 1986 copy shows GBP50 for a used example.

 

 

 

 

 

ic_ask.gifIf you still have more questions for voldermort (2499

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librashares

720506_081208115222_rhodesiabsac18.jpg720506_081208115245_rhodesiabsac18a.jpg

 

Answer

25 Dec 22:58

MM means that it is not cancelled, perfin means that there are perforation holes & superb cond means that the stamp is in superb cond.

As the ad states that this stamp is sold as per scan, if any prospective buyer is under the impression that this is a revenue stamp or not that is up to them to decide. I do believe my images as well as all my wordings in my ad are all very clear.I find nothing at all misleading in my ad or wordings when the word IF is very clearly visible.

 

 

See how we can all learn. When there are perforation holes in the stamp, it means that the stamp is not cancelled!...................

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voldermort

Answer

25 Dec 22:58

MM means that it is not cancelled, perfin means that there are perforation holes & superb cond means that the stamp is in superb cond.

As the ad states that this stamp is sold as per scan, if any prospective buyer is under the impression that this is a revenue stamp or not that is up to them to decide. I do believe my images as well as all my wordings in my ad are all very clear.I find nothing at all misleading in my ad or wordings when the word IF is very clearly visible.

 

 

 

I vaguely remember you about a year or so ago, sending me quite a few questions all with the same theme & all similar to this one.......some things never change.

Above is the answer I sent to you this time around, the 2nd question you had asked in the space of a few minutes on Christmas evening which I was trying to spend with my family (yes, some of us do have families & lives).

 

However your assumption that my description is deliberate is perhaps a bit too presumptious on your part seeing that nearly every one of my ads has the same wording "sold as per scan" inserted therein, or does that not suit you. Perhaps you would like to tell me exactly how to word my ads, also what prices to ask, how many different scans to take etc etc etc? Also of course, then every single seller who uses the words "sold as is", "sold as per image", "what you see is what you buy" etc is also deliberately attempting to mislead buyers or is it only I who has been singled out for the festive season?

Of course though, if as you stated I am deliberately trying to mislead buyers, then all of the quite satisfied customers I have sold to must be totally unaware of what they are buying be it from me or other sellers, or should they rather just purchase directly from you?

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voldermort

See how we can all learn. When there are perforation holes in the stamp, it means that the stamp is not cancelled!................... quote.gif

 

So we can...perforation holes in a stamp do not automatically mean that it is revenue, neither that it is postally cancelled, I would have imagined you would have learned that ages ago.

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gabriel 1

Voldermort

 

Check the SG definition of superb and then alter your descriptions.

 

Gabriel1

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dstorm

Hello

MM means that it is not cancelled

MM means mounted Mint – in other words NOT USED.

 

A used stamp is a used stamp. Whether cancelled by a rubber or cancelled by perforation.

 

A stamp cancelled by perforation is still cancelled! And still USED!

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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voldermort

Seeing as people seem to be so eager to jump the gun here, perhaps they should be aware that our friend Librashares asked 3 x different questions, namely what is perfin, what is mm and what is superb condition.

All 3 x questions required 3 x different answers which were given.

I quite clearly stated in my ad that IF my stamp were mm the catalogue value was xxxxx, I also quite clearly stated that my stamp was PERFIN, and sold as per scan. At no time did I say that my stamp IS mounted mint.

I wonder if you all are not actually treating prospective buyers as ignorant amateurs?

Perhaps a number of buyers are far more knowledgeable than you all seem to be trying to make out?

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dstorm

Hello Voldermort

I wonder if you all are not actually treating prospective buyers as ignorant amateurs?

Perhaps a number of buyers are far more knowledgeable than you all seem to be trying to make out?

 

I firmly believe that most stamp collectors know more about stamps in their specific field(s) than the average dealer.

 

I also believe that the average stamp buyer on BidorBuy is intelligent and well informed.

 

However, there are many, many novices who do not have adequate knowledge.

As a person with a long term commitment to the stamp market, I will ALWAYS feel it my duty to inform (wherever I have the adequate knowledge to do so).

 

And I am more than willing to accept criticism (and alter my description accordingly) when someone points out that I have made a mistake.

 

The most fantastic thing about philately is that we learn all the time.

 

Thanks and regards

 

Jacques

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voldermort
Hello Voldermort

 

 

I firmly believe that most stamp collectors know more about stamps in their specific field(s) than the average dealer.

 

I also believe that the average stamp buyer on BidorBuy is intelligent and well informed.

 

However, there are many, many novices who do not have adequate knowledge.

As a person with a long term commitment to the stamp market, I will ALWAYS feel it my duty to inform (wherever I have the adequate knowledge to do so).

 

And I am more than willing to accept criticism (and alter my description accordingly) when someone points out that I have made a mistake.

 

The most fantastic thing about philately is that we learn all the time.

 

Thanks and regards

 

Jacques

 

 

100% agreed on all of the above.

I do believe that even with over 40 years joint experience there is still much more to be learnt.

 

In my time on BOB I have had buyers/sellers pointing out spelling errors/catalogue number errors/pricing errors/wrong pictures etc to me, all of which I have gratefully acknowledged as I intend to be on BOB for a very long time and my reputation is important to me as I'm sure you as a seller will understand.

However.........I have no intention of sitting back when certain people attempt to twist words I have put in my ads to suit themselves, why on earth would I place an ad of a clearly used stamp and say it is mm? Unless I have suddenly lost my mind.

The word IF was quite clearly visible in my ad, however there are some who choose to read & see only what suits them.

I have seen dealers selling very expensive catalogue valued stamps on BOB with no mention that the stamps have been repaired

/cleaned up / parcel cancellations etc all of which makes the stamp worth nothing & whivh I am sure they are aware of.

Perhaps these are the sellers who need closer watching?

 

Regards

 

Samantha/voldermort

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Vinyl Lady Decals

I have seen dealers selling very expensive catalogue valued stamps on BOB with no mention that the stamps have been repaired

/cleaned up / parcel cancellations etc all of which makes the stamp worth nothing & whivh I am sure they are aware of.

Perhaps these are the sellers who need closer watching?

 

Hi voldermort

 

I quite agree with you on this. When I was just starting out collecting stamps, I was fooled by a seller here on Bob who did this to me. I bought a pair of Admiral stamps which according to the listing appeared to be quite valuable and value was very over-stated.

 

Needless to say, when I received the pair, I found that it was originally a pair with some of the perfs separated between the two stamps and very neatly taped together. No mention was made of this is the listing.

 

As I was very new to BoB at the time, I didn't do anything, but if I had to get something like that today, it would definitely have deserved a negative rating and I would have returned the stamps.

 

I will never forget that and will also never support that seller again. Lessons learnt.

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librashares

Now that the group has had a look at the changed advert: the description that was questioned clearly stated mm,perfin, superb. Please scroll up in this thread, and you will see that the administrator, in his reply to seahorsefanatic, stated

 

If you can supply proof to bidorbuy, please report it to community watch.

 

1. The following policies apply to all listings and are strictly prohibited:

 

1.1. Misrepresentation of items including:

 

1.1.1 Creating titles and descriptions that do not accurately describe the item for sale.

 

 

Thank you.

__________________

bidorbuy Forum Administrator

 

I did not report anything to the administrator, I attempted to get clarity from the seller as to why

the abbreviation mm is used to describe a used item. The quoting of a Catalogue value of an unused item compounds the mis-description. The offer price implies that for some reason this item commands a much higher price than what is normally available in the market, and again- the seller has been active in this market for a long time, and irrespective of the time of the year should accurately describe what is being sold. If I did ask a similar question a year or more ago, it would have been for the same or similar reason.

As I recall, a seller was advertising the 5Pound green transvaal VRI overprint, No mention being made of the existence of reprints or the need for certificates or specialised personal knowledge before paying large sums.

The whole theme of this thread is about accurate descriptions. Failure to accurately describe does a disservice to the hobby, and anyone who has been "stung" is likely to be disenchanted and tar all dealers with the same brush, and will be hesitant to bid again. The realisation that too much has been paid usually occurs quite a few years later when the gullible buyer tries to sell his rarities.

Bid or Buy used to publish the question and answer for all to see, even before the auction closes. What a pity this practice has stopped, as asking a question was a polite way of advising the seller that the description may not be spot on, and other bidders could also see the reply.

 

 

 

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Vinyl Lady Decals

Bid or Buy used to publish the question and answer for all to see, even before the auction closes. What a pity this practice has stopped, as asking a question was a polite way of advising the seller that the description may not be spot on, and other bidders could also see the reply.

 

Unfortunately, it appears, that showing the question before the seller was able to answer is almost guaranteed to cause problems. There are many people on this website that go out of their way to make life difficult for sellers and get downright ugly, making all sorts of accusations which are not necessarily true. This has lead to sellers losing sales as a result.

 

Although, not a perfect system, the way it works now is much better. An honest seller will always answer an honest question.

 

It also allows the person asking the question to give information to the seller without the rest of BoB knowing. (Obviously excluding contact details). I've used it that way quite a few times and the seller has always been happy about the info given.

 

Kind Regards

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voldermort
There are many people on this website that go out of their way to make life difficult for sellers and get downright ugly, making all sorts of accusations which are not necessarily true.

 

Unfortunately you will probably notice that the more items you list & sell, the uglier & more vicious they become.

With any printing errors I have made in ads though, apart from a certain select group, the errors have been pointed out to me & accepted in the spirit they were intended, that of friendliness & the helping out of another seller. Some of the sellers/buyers though do make it much better, such as the seller who pointed out to me that I had inadvertently left out a zero on the price of a stamp I was selling, instead of R500.00 I had put R50.00. ;)

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lilythepink

Does anyone know WHY BoB stopped us from seeing questions and answers to items on auction? Seems a very important bit of info has been removed. BoB Admin - please could you reconsider your decision? Thanks.

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gabriel 1

Hi all

 

I think that the point on this issue has been made, I agree with all parties to a certain extent but I am sure that this subject will again raise it's head in the future. Voldermort, you are not going to please all of the people all of the time and yes there will be those that check your every move, I however believe that one should be very carefull of the use of the word "superb", here we are all treading on dangerous ground.

 

As far as questions to sellers are concerned, perhaps these could be linked to the forum with a message sent to the seller, "so and so has asked you a question on the forum regarding item xyz". This may stimulate more debate and buyer/seller usage of the forum.

 

Have a great day

 

Gabriel1

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kennyn

Hi Gabriel and Voldermort

Yes indeed one should be wary of the term superb.To go back to some of the earlier posts re misleading descriptions there is no doubt that Voldermort,you do indeed use misleading descriptions,whether by design or accident only you can tell us.

I refer to some GB Edward VII 1/- which you currently have for sale(18111150 and 18111151)

Your descriptions read as follows

Great Britain,1902-13,1 shilling light green and carmine,Stanley Gibbons,no 259,superb used.CV 80 Pounds sold as per scan.

The second stamp has an identical type description,but refers to SG 259,the scarlet colour and quotes a cat value of 55 pounds.

 

Quite clearly because of the insertion of the full stop,the first sentance is a description of the stamp being sold.There is no way anyone can be made to believe that the catalogue value of 80/55 pounds refers to the stamp AS IF IT WERE SUPERB USED

 

The description refers to the stamp depicted.

What is even more disturbing is the changing of the original Gibbons colours from Dull green to LIGHT GREEN in the description.

I would humbly offer my opinion that Mr Gibbons may be more skilled in determining the original colours of GB stamps than most.

Of course,the reason light green has to be put in the description is because that is exactly the colour that the stamps have become.These stamps, which anyone who has collected GB for a reasonable ammount of time knows,fade after exposure to water.They are worthless in this condition.They could never in anyones wildest imagination be described as superb.To describe them otherwise would be misleading.Only a novice would be caught buying these stamps.

Oh they are both carmine as well by the way,one is not scarlet.

 

Voldermort,sell as much as you can,I wish you well in that regard,but please refrain from incorrect descriptions that may mislead an inexperienced collector.

 

Regards

Kenny

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lilythepink

Kennyn - what a polite way of telling someone off! Wish I could be as diplomatic but my beak always lets me down. lol

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voldermort
Hi Gabriel and Voldermort

Yes indeed one should be wary of the term superb.To go back to some of the earlier posts re misleading descriptions there is no doubt that Voldermort,you do indeed use misleading descriptions,whether by design or accident only you can tell us.

I refer to some GB Edward VII 1/- which you currently have for sale(18111150 and 18111151)

Your descriptions read as follows

Great Britain,1902-13,1 shilling light green and carmine,Stanley Gibbons,no 259,superb used.CV 80 Pounds sold as per scan.

The second stamp has an identical type description,but refers to SG 259,the scarlet colour and quotes a cat value of 55 pounds.

 

Quite clearly because of the insertion of the full stop,the first sentance is a description of the stamp being sold.There is no way anyone can be made to believe that the catalogue value of 80/55 pounds refers to the stamp AS IF IT WERE SUPERB USED

 

The description refers to the stamp depicted.

What is even more disturbing is the changing of the original Gibbons colours from Dull green to LIGHT GREEN in the description.

I would humbly offer my opinion that Mr Gibbons may be more skilled in determining the original colours of GB stamps than most.

Of course,the reason light green has to be put in the description is because that is exactly the colour that the stamps have become.These stamps, which anyone who has collected GB for a reasonable ammount of time knows,fade after exposure to water.They are worthless in this condition.They could never in anyones wildest imagination be described as superb.To describe them otherwise would be misleading.Only a novice would be caught buying these stamps.

Oh they are both carmine as well by the way,one is not scarlet.

 

Voldermort,sell as much as you can,I wish you well in that regard,but please refrain from incorrect descriptions that may mislead an inexperienced collector.

 

Regards

Kenny

 

In my opinion these stamps have the colours that I have placed in my ads also the correct SG numbers otherwise I would not have stated the colours & numbers & would merely have placed an ad with no description at all.

As you said that most stamps from this issue have faded/running colours making them worthless I think the operative word here is most-I do believe that I would notice were that the case with these stamps.

I think all the images on all my ads are extremely clear helping any prospective buyer to judge for themselves whether I am right or wrong.

Which leads me to my wording that items are sold as per scan, also any questions please ask, I have spent many evenings taking many extra images of stamps which buyers have requested.

My catalogue mentioned prices on both these stamps is also quite correct as both stamps are well centred & have very light cancellations. According to Mr.Gibbons there has been a 25% price increase on these stamps.

Regarding the mentioned condition of my stamps-superb condition, good condition, fair condition etc please note that I am referring to the section of the stamp that can NOT be seen – sections that are not visible, which means that there is no rust, no cuts, no tape holding the stamp together which I think is a whole lot more then certain dealers do when selling their stamps.

As the front of the stamp is nearly always visible on every sellers ads, which means that every prospective buyer can clearly see the front of the stamp, it would be ludicrous for me to take a scan of a clearly damaged stamp ie: perfs missings and then state the highest catalogue value of the stamp and say it is superb!

Thus too it would be very very misleading for me to take a scan of a stamp which from the front looks superb, but has rust on the back, then again state the highest catalogue value of said stamp & tell everybody how rare/wonderful it would be to own said stamp with no mention made of the rust which would mean it should be thrown into the dirtbin.

Now that in my opinion is very misleading and what a few sellers tend to do.

I at least have the decency and honesty to point out what is lurking in the background so that there are no unpleasant surprises when/if items are bought.

At the end of the day I am wanting satisfied & happy customers and the majority of my customers do know that when they buy from me, be it a book, DVD, stamp etc. they will be receiving exactly what they wanted & bid on.

 

Voldermort

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lilythepink

Well said, voldermort: At the end of the day I am wanting satisfied & happy customers and the majority of my customers do know that when they buy from me, be it a book, DVD, stamp etc. they will be receiving exactly what they wanted & bid on.

 

We all want happy buyers.

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kennyn

Hi Voldermort

When Gibbons refers to superb it is assumed that the rest of the stamp is free from missing perfs,creases,thins,running colours,rubbed surface etc (which I think is what you are referring to)in addition to a superb circular date stamp(preferably full date stamp).These stamps presented by you have average to fine used cancellations 'in my opinion" and would certainly not form part of a very fine used GB collection.

Whilst not proclaiming to be an expert, I have examples of SG 257 and 259 in my collection with the 2 different shades of dull green,namely dull green and deep dull green.These are substantially greener than the washed out yellowish green in the 2 examples you are selling.

Without wishing to get into a lenghthy argument, in my opinion those stamps are faded due to soaking and should be described as such.Send them for certification and I will pay for the certificates if the expert committee finds them to be the true dull green colour

 

Regards

Kenny

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