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Commemorative Madiba notes

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GROOVIE MOVIES

Good day

Is it just me or does it seem like the new Madiba notes aren't generating much excitement? Or is it perhaps that bank note numismatics aren't as large as coin collecting and thus receives little attention?

A few friends have approached me to show off their new notes and occasionally during this month I've checked BOB notes section to see activity and found nothing.  The Madiba coin listings were visible from day one with the normal exaggerated asking prices for new coins, however I have yet to see any new Madiba notes listed at any price.

Any thoughts?

regards Robert

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jwither

There are a lot more coin versus note collectors.  I don't know how many collect currency but I think it is a low fraction.  If you look at currency auctions, you will disproportionately see choice quality or specimen notes and the prices aren't low either, even from countries "in the middle of nowhere".

High quality notes are much scarcer than equivalent quality coinage on average.  Notes are obviously more fragile and the higher purchasing power makes it more expensive to collect it casually.  S o far fewer were generally preserved.

What's the face value of these notes?

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GROOVIE MOVIES
3 minutes ago, jwither said:

There are a lot more coin versus note collectors.  I don't know how many collect currency but I think it is a low fraction.  If you look at currency auctions, you will disproportionately see choice quality or specimen notes and the prices aren't low either, even from countries "in the middle of nowhere".

High quality notes are much scarcer than equivalent quality coinage on average.  Notes are obviously more fragile and the higher purchasing power makes it more expensive to collect it casually.  S o far fewer were generally preserved.

What's the face value of these notes?

All our notes, R10, R20, R50, R100 and R200 received the facelift for the Mandela centenary celebrations, however it has been noted (He who would pun, would pick a pocket) that these notes won't replace the older series, but will only compliment them. I'm not sure what the numbers are as bank notes generally pressed in larger qtys, but I would have thought a limited note would have raised more eyebrows. 

regards Robert

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Pierre_Henri
1 hour ago, GROOVIE MOVIES said:

 but I would have thought a limited note would have raised more eyebrows. 

How many were issued?

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jwither

At current exchange rates and purchasing power, I wouldn't expect that many R200 and R100 notes to be saved, not in absolute terms.  It's still enough to be buy something meaningful and non-collectors certainly aren't as likely to tie up even that much of their savings for it.

Concurrently, since practically everything is saved now in much larger quantities, these notes will definitely be common for as long as it will matter to anyone reading my comments.  Combined that with future inflation and this type of currency collecting is a financially losing proposition.

For those who don't know it, the USA has issued notes with a value up to $100,000 in the past.  These were for reserve purposes and bank-to-bank transfers but other denominations including $10,000, $5,000, $1000 and $500 were also issued in addition to today's denominations.  Most of these were during the gold exchange standard era (up to 1933 or 1934) but are available to collectors today.

The problem with this type of currency collecting is that it is very expensive.  A $500 note circulated is available for slightly over $1000 but that's a good chuck of change to have tied up in an "investment" which is guaranteed to lose value since inflation eats it up and it doesn't really increase. 

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GROOVIE MOVIES
49 minutes ago, Pierre_Henri said:

How many were issued?

No idea, though the numbers must be large to ensure adequate circulation. The reserve bank knows whenever anything is released with Mandela's face on it, people withdraw it from circulation. Samething with all the Madiba coins, millions out there, but good luck trying to get it in circulation. 

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GROOVIE MOVIES
47 minutes ago, jwither said:

At current exchange rates and purchasing power, I wouldn't expect that many R200 and R100 notes to be saved, not in absolute terms.  It's still enough to be buy something meaningful and non-collectors certainly aren't as likely to tie up even that much of their savings for it.

Concurrently, since practically everything is saved now in much larger quantities, these notes will definitely be common for as long as it will matter to anyone reading my comments.  Combined that with future inflation and this type of currency collecting is a financially losing proposition.

For those who don't know it, the USA has issued notes with a value up to $100,000 in the past.  These were for reserve purposes and bank-to-bank transfers but other denominations including $10,000, $5,000, $1000 and $500 were also issued in addition to today's denominations.  Most of these were during the gold exchange standard era (up to 1933 or 1934) but are available to collectors today.

The problem with this type of currency collecting is that it is very expensive.  A $500 note circulated is available for slightly over $1000 but that's a good chuck of change to have tied up in an "investment" which is guaranteed to lose value since inflation eats it up and it doesn't really increase. 

Yes even if issued for only a short period, these notes will be around in their numbers for years to come. And as you mentioned, inflation renders short term (50years) investment all but a gamble. SA has a steady climbing inflation rate of about 6 to 7 % annually, something the reserve bank tries to keep down with high interest rates (short term fix). If you look at all the old van Riebeeck notes from the 70's and 80's (When the Rand was around R2 to the Dollar) listed on BOB, and the prices they going for these days, one can only imagine the knock these sellers took on their investment. The purchase power lost on a old R20 for example doesn't come close the R140 it might get on a good auction today.

 

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BruinersCoins

Firstly, only 400 million notes apparently will be printed across all denominations and then it will cease. Whether we want to face it or not, but there is a lot of "politics" involved when it comes to the Mandela coins and banknotes. Resistance from certain sectors have basically been putting certain people off because Mandela is not everyone's favourite "leader."

However I think we have missed a great opportunity in SA Numismatics to use this grand occasion to revive and create new interest in SA collecting!

SA serial numbered notes are virtually non existent. SA would be your normal AA. It appears that we are close to the end of the run as new (UNC) notes are becoming scarcer. Used notes from the ATM's look like they have been around longer than Stals' R10 notes....

I have graded myself an SA set at PMG and currently am probably one of a few that own a graded set.

Banknote collectors are not so "small" anymore. It's a growing market that "we" are neglecting.....

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Pierre_Henri

Banknotes are beautiful, and I think that there are a lot of Philatelists that have crossed the fence and are now part of the Numismatic fraternity.  

Past stamp collectors may not be that interested in coins, but there is an attraction to banknotes that I am certain they cannot resist.

In uncertain economic times all hobbies struggle, but I think Numismatics are doing well and the future looks bright.

When in Cape Town again, please come an visit again Ralph.

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BruinersCoins

Hi Pierre, thanks for the invite. I certainly will!

I wholeheartedly agree with you that South African coin and banknote collecting is in a very exciting stage at present. A lot of good things are happening.

Edited by BruinersCoins

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