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DaveDave2013

New SNC Process

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DaveDave2013

Hi All,

We have some exciting news for you - as of today we have implemented an entirely redesigned SNC process with the view of making SNCs smoother and simpler for both buyers and sellers.

For the time being, all SNCs filed under the old system will continue as they had previously. However, any new SNCs filed from now on will be handled via the improved system. For sellers, both SNC processes are accessed in exactly the same way.

Sellers will notice there have been changes made in terms of the options available to them when filing an SNC.

In the old system, sellers were given 7 options to select as reasons for the SNC. This has now been reduced to 3, namely: 

  • Buyer did not make payment.
  • Buyer decided to cancel.
  • Other.

This change is intended to remove potentially confusing SNC statuses and to enable us to process SNCs more efficiently.
When a seller files an SNC under the new system, a notification will be sent to the buyer asking them to confirm the SNC status. As soon as the buyer has confirmed a non-payment or a cancellation, the SNC is finalised and credits passed. 

In the event that the buyer does not respond to the SNC within 7 days, it will be processed as previously. 

If the buyer’s version of events differs from the seller’s, the SNC will not be processed until the seller furnishes us with information to support their claim. This must be submitted within 60 days of the date of sale in order to be considered.

Once the seller has submitted their SNC Review Application, a decision will be made by bidorbuy and the SNC finalised. It is important to note that this process is dependent on the seller submitting the required information, rather than the buyer.

 

Why are we changing this?

SNCs in their current form are a source of conflict between buyers and sellers which we hope to eliminate. We also want to shorten the time to process valid SNCs for sellers.

What follows below is a brief overview of the process which will be followed for each of the SNC options given to sellers:

  • Buyer Did Not Make Payment

The SNC is filed by the seller and an email is sent to the buyer requesting that they let us know what transpired from their perspective.
In the email the buyer will receive various links; they simply select the option which applies to them and then submit the status on bidorbuy.
From the time the SNC is filed the buyer has a period of 7 days to complete this.

  • Buyer Decided to Cancel

In this instance, the buyer cancels an order due to buyer's remorse or for reasons unrelated to the product or service provided by the seller. When a seller files a SNC for this reason, the buyer is contacted asking them to confirm the reason for the cancellation within 7 days. Once they have confirmed the transaction, or the 7-day time frame has lapsed, the seller's fees will be refunded.

 

What happens if the buyer agrees with the SNC?

Once the buyer has confirmed that they do not intend to pay or no longer want the item:

  • The SNC is immediately processed and the relevant credits passed to the seller
  • We notify both the buyer and the seller that the SNC has been processed and confirm cancellation of the sale of the item.
  • We immediately credit the seller for their Success Fee for the item and, where applicable, the Final Order Value Fee.

 

What happens when the buyer disputes the SNC?

In the event that the buyer disputes the SNC that has been filed, the SNC will not be processed any further.

The seller will be notified of the dispute via email and will be requested to submit any relevant information to back the claims they have made when filing the SNC.

In the notification to the seller, a unique SNC reference number will be given to the seller alongside a link to the submission page. Sellers will be able to submit up to 3 separate documents to support their claims.

Once this has been received, the SNC will be reviewed by our SNC review team and the outcome communicated to the seller.

 

We hope that these changes will improve your experience on the platform, if any of the information above is unclear or if you have any queries please contact us.

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Deonrick

Saw this with last nights SNC's i filed. 

Hope this process is smoother than previous System.

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TechnoPro

What happens when a buyer "dispute" an SNC for invalid reasons?   We've had buyers disputing SNC's with comments like "I do not have enough money" , "Mobicred did not approve my request", "I told the seller I do not want this product anymore"

You are now placing even more administrative burden on the seller to monitor and respond to silly reasons like the above. 

Or am I not understanding this comment

"In the event that the buyer disputes the SNC that has been filed, the SNC will not be processed any further.

The seller will be notified of the dispute via email and will be requested to submit any relevant information to back the claims they have made when filing the SNC."

 

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StorminaTcup

I agree with TechnoPro

I have the same experiences and I do not appreciate the extra work now involved.

I have already got an snc that requires more paperwork to "PROVE"  my case.

To me it is an excuse to claim commission if you don't have the time to "PROVE" every snc is valid.

There is no benefit to us as sellers but certainly there is benefit for Bidorbuy keeping all commissions unless you spend your time to claim it back.

 

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Maverick
Posted (edited)

Yip, first we are nailed with a 100% increase in commissions last month and now BoB is making it more difficult for us to get commissions refunded.

All the changes that are being made are making things more difficult for sellers to make money on BoB.

Buyers should not be allowed to dispute an SNC if there is no payment reflecting on the relevant order.

Another example is where a buyer places two orders for the same item but only wants one and when you process the SNC for the duplicate they dispute it and say they have paid for it.

Edited by Maverick
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Johan
4 minutes ago, Maverick said:

Yip, first we are nailed with a 100% increase in commissions last month and now BoB is making it more difficult for us to get commissions refunded.

All the changes that are being made are making things more difficult for sellers to make money on BoB.

Buyers should not be allowed to dispute an SNC if there is no payment reflecting on the relevant order.

Another example is where a buyer places two orders for the same item but only wants one and when you process the SNC for the duplicate they dispute it and say they have paid for it.

The new process actually works very well for duplicate orders. 

You can file the SNC with the reason as other, add the duplicate order numbers into the text box and tell us what happened. Then bidorbuy can assess the SNC without even involving the buyer which should cut down on disputes and speed up the process. 

With regards to buyers not being able to dispute SNC's where there is no payment: I feel that they should be able to dispute those transactions because they could have collected and paid cash or used a payment method directly with the seller that would not show on the system. It would not be fair to file SNC's in these cases and a buyer should be able to dispute those SNC's. 

Please give this process a chance as it should speed up the process for Sellers to get their fees back in the situations you have described. 

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StorminaTcup

I would like to point out that when a buyer gets an item and it is the wrong size and they want refund but they have already paid on Bidorbuy, how much paperwork will be required to prove that the ring was sent back? 

Must we have signed proof of deliveries?

Emails proving the intent to return the item?

Bank statement proving our refund to them?

And confirmation from the buyer proving receipt of funds?

I file over 100 sncs per month.

You very kindly offer 3 pages for our proof.

So shall I give up selling and pursue sncs every day?

I foresee frustration. A lot of it

 

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PawnTique
1 hour ago, StorminaTcup said:

I would like to point out that when a buyer gets an item and it is the wrong size and they want refund but they have already paid on Bidorbuy, how much paperwork will be required to prove that the ring was sent back? 

Must we have signed proof of deliveries?

Emails proving the intent to return the item?

Bank statement proving our refund to them?

And confirmation from the buyer proving receipt of funds?

I file over 100 sncs per month.

You very kindly offer 3 pages for our proof.

So shall I give up selling and pursue sncs every day?

I foresee frustration. A lot of it

 

 

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PawnTique

Noticed that buyer did not make payment, Bid or Buy still charges me for FINAL ORDER fee.

I was refunded for Success Fee, but then charged again for Final order fee.

One sided and self enrichment or fair user policy? 

 

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kebs

Another way to screw the seller over. There's no option for refund done, so the buyer must just swallow everything, as usual...

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StorminaTcup

Well here is how snc's are going to go.

27min wasted for R9 and here is how the conversation goes:

Njabulo Zwane:How can I help you today ?
14:59shawn bouwer:The buyer of order13821075 only paid the ring and no shipping and now I am being threatened by Xolani if I do not refund the payment. Instead of the buyer being in default I am treated like the one in default
15:00Njabulo Zwane:The buyer does not want to proceed with the order as they require a refund.
15:00Njabulo Zwane:You are entitled to assist as you have not shipped the item yet.
15:00shawn bouwer:Since when does the buyer bid, part pay and then force the seller to refund in an auction?????
15:01shawn bouwer:Why would I ship when no shipping has been paid???
15:01shawn bouwer:This is an auction not a buy it now.
15:02Njabulo Zwane:You can still file an snc on an auction.
15:03shawn bouwer:Then what the hell is going on here?
15:03shawn bouwer:I filed an snc for non payment and Bidorbuy overturned it
15:03Njabulo Zwane:Please refund the buyer to get this matter not resolved.
15:04Njabulo Zwane:Once refund has been made we will credit you back with your success fees.
15:05shawn bouwer:Do you realize that you are violating your own terms and conditions in clause 6?
15:05shawn bouwer:I should hand the buyer over for legal collection for failing to pay in full
15:05shawn bouwer:And you force a refund?
15:06shawn bouwer:Why is this buyer not expected to make full payment as was required in all the years I have been a seller?
15:09Njabulo Zwane:"Hi.
According to our records shipping was not paid and we will not send the
item for free.
The buyer will be refunded only if Bidorbuy agrees to the snc.
I am not paying commission on a sale that does not happen.
Best regards
Shawn"
15:09Njabulo Zwane:You confirmed that you will refund the buyer if success fees are reversed.
15:10Njabulo Zwane:We are going to reverse your success fees.
15:11shawn bouwer:Because Xolani said I had no choice and now threatens to restrict my account so that I cannot sell.
15:11shawn bouwer:As I said you are forcing a refund that is against all rules of an auction
15:12shawn bouwer:Is this Bidorbuys new approach?
15:14Njabulo Zwane:The buyer is allowed to request for a refund.
15:15Njabulo Zwane:Kindly refund the buyer to get this matter resolved.
15:16shawn bouwer:Ok I get it. You make the rules and change them at the seller's expense whenever it suits you. You force a refund or close my account so I refund. Thank you for enlightening me.
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DaveDave2013
On 4/10/2018 at 3:14 PM, PawnTique said:

Noticed that buyer did not make payment, Bid or Buy still charges me for FINAL ORDER fee.

I was refunded for Success Fee, but then charged again for Final order fee.

One sided and self enrichment or fair user policy? 

 

Hi Pawntique,

Please will you PM me the order number so that I can look into this for you and provide a proper explanation.

You can read up on Final Order Value Fees here: Final Order Value Fees

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dame84

There is a very good reason why bidorbuy has fallen so far in the Alexa ratings.

A company that was once in the top 20 (if not top 10) websites visited in South Africa now currently down to #49

Lets not forget that in the last year it has dropped 758 places in the global Alexa ratings.

We are now charged double success fees, an additional final order fee and in the event of a buyer not paying they still take advertising fees.

We are pressured into giving refunds even when it contravenes the consumer protection act. We are constantly threatened with restrictions of our accounts.

Management uses the CPA when it suits them and discards it when it does not suit a buyer. WHAT IS BIDORBUY WITHOUT THE SELLERS??

The drastic drop in traffic and the ranking drop is a perfect reflection of what is going on internally with bidorbuy. Constant new staff who are mostly ill prepared (read lack of training) to do the job that is required of them. These people are managed by people who no matter what the issue is will not listen to us as sellers. Most of the SNC's we file get appealed for stupid reasons and half of the time bidorbuy accepts the buyers reason even when it makes no sense at all. All this will be is more work to get back money that ultimately shouldn't be taken unless a sale is actually completed. Why should the onus now fall on us the sellers?

I see for the first time some of the sellers are actually voicing their concerns and joining together to stand as one against some of these issues.

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DaveDave2013
On 4/10/2018 at 4:50 PM, kebs said:

Another way to screw the seller over. There's no option for refund done, so the buyer must just swallow everything, as usual...

Hi Kebs,

You are correct - there is no option for a refund being done due to the fact that the SNC is based on the reasoning for why the refund was done. 

Examples of this include the buyer no longer wanting the item or the seller being unable to supply the item to the buyer.

Refunding a buyer in and of itself is not sufficient reason for an SNC, as outlined in our Billing Statement and Terms and Conditions.

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StorminaTcup

BE AWARE!!!

Sellers just remember to check on an item sold for R1. 

If you fail to snc every single one, from now you will ALSO PAY for commission on the SHIPPING.

YES on the SHIPPING!

I will not write what I think about that!

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Githarowsha

Great news..Keep it up Bob.

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nico2815

I think bob should only take their success fee after the item has been Paid not before

06 Apr 18 20:42 I did not have access to the internet for almost 2 weeks and couldnt make a payment. payment will be made tomorrow night after shabbat.

And I am still waiting ????!!!!!! 

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JANDS

Dear Bidorbuy Sellers!  I have exciting news for you!  Due to the decreasing amount of traffic on Bidorbuy and our increasing need to justify our positions , we have implemented higher fees and even more gobbledy-gook than the best politician could pretend to understand. However, even better news is that you can pass these higher prices on to the buyers, so you will not lose a cent.  So......ja swaer.....I was never a huge seller,  but the old management showed a sincere caring for sellers and buyers while the platform was being consolidated.  Let me then thank Bidorbuy for galvanising me to find a better means of selling my thingiemebobs. 

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Jesmandy Trading
Posted (edited)

I have filed a few SNC's against Buyers who were actual time wasters.  My last SNC ended up with BOB actually not crediting me but putting the reason down as "Seller cancelled" - this was not true.  The Buyer defaulted by not paying within 7 days, he then defaulted by short paying, he the defaulted again by not paying the short payment when he promised to pay.  Out of frustration we told BOB that the item was now being donated to the SPCA.  We ended up with a negative rating from the Buyer.

Firstly, we list the items for sale for 7 days  then we must wait 7 days for payment before we can file an SNC.  We then have to wait another 7 days to give the Buyer the opportunity to dispute or not even respond.  This is 21 days that have been wasted.  For us where this is our business, our bread and butter, this is totally unfair.

We then give a negative rating to the Buyer with very good reason.  They then respond by giving us a negative rating, you then have to "lick their bums" to remove the negative rating.

This is the BIGGEST FLAW with BOB.  If an SNC has been filed against a Buyer by a Seller and vice versa, only 3 days should be allowed.  The guilty party must not be allowed to rate the other party.

My suggestion to BOB:

1.  Payment within 3 days or SNC can be filed

2.  SNC Finalised after 3 days

3.  Guilty party not allowed to rate innocent party - if they do give a negative rating then BOB must remove it

4.  Buyer or Seller can be blocked for a life time, not just 3 months

5.  No commission must be deducted from the shipping amount (this is a very low blow from BOB) - you make enough from the commission on the sale of the item

I have not had good experiences selling on BOB.

I have had fantastic experiences buying on BOB, I am now looking at other avenues as the shipping costs are far too high and the prices of items are being increased to cover BOBs commission.

 

Edited by Jesmandy Trading
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Serthentia Sales
Posted (edited)

I think BoB has hired Mac Maharaj as their new spin doctor to try to con the "dumb sellers" into believeing that a single change that has been made recently is to OUR BENEFIT!!!

Utter rubbish being spat in our faces by BoB, and they think we are so dumb as to believe their bollocks?

More than double the fees payable - BoB say this benefits the sellers

Charge fees on shipping costs - Again supposedly to OUR BENEFIT

Increse the admin work for sellers to actually claim back fees for time wasting buyers who bid and do not bother to pay - again, somehow making more admin work for us is to OUR BENEFIT?????

Tell us BoB, what wonderful innovations to make seller's lives "easier" are you going to force down our throats next??? Are you going to start charging us a montly fee just to have an account? Or add "server fees" for uploading a photo of our item to your site? This whole revamp of the site is actually becoming something that Trevor Noah should talk about on his show, because it is honestly becoming an absolute joke how you are making everything "easier and cheaper" for us sellers by giving us more admin work and charging us more fees. Utterly ridiculous and the sign of a company who longer values their clients

Edited by Serthentia Sales
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StorminaTcup

New way for Bob to earn more interest on our money

Has anyone else noticed that when the final order fee is charged (which includes the commission on shipping), that is is a nice some of money.

This is deducted immediately from other paid orders in your bobpay account, even before the buyer pays for their order.

So payouts take longer to accumulate and all the while Bidorbuy is earning interest on the Sellers money because that interest is gained from other sales that were paid for.

Unpaid auctions are costing us lost interest. We are paying interest in advance of even receiving payment from the buyer! 

Such a good idea for Bidorbuy.

 

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StorminaTcup
On 4/10/2018 at 3:14 PM, PawnTique said:

Noticed that buyer did not make payment, Bid or Buy still charges me for FINAL ORDER fee.

I was refunded for Success Fee, but then charged again for Final order fee.

One sided and self enrichment or fair user policy? 

 

You are right

After Bidorbuy offered to look at your order number they did the same to me a few days later

This is one such sale:

Fees close detail


26 Feb 205961742  Success Fee  Item 325613006  R6.50

24 Mar 207071827  Sale Not Complete Fee Credit  Item 325613006  R-6.50

10 Apr  207970961  Sale Not Complete Fee Credit Reversal  Item 325613006  R6.50


Total R6.50

Exactly as you said.

They charged again for the success fee

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Deonrick
10 minutes ago, StorminaTcup said:

You are right

After Bidorbuy offered to look at your order number they did the same to me a few days later

This is one such sale:

Fees close detail


26 Feb 205961742  Success Fee  Item 325613006  R6.50

24 Mar 207071827  Sale Not Complete Fee Credit  Item 325613006  R-6.50

10 Apr  207970961  Sale Not Complete Fee Credit Reversal  Item 325613006  R6.50


Total R6.50

Exactly as you said.

They charged again for the success fee

This is what happened to me with an international client  that tried his luck. 

The BoB system only reflects Paid PayPal, and not refunded PayPal transactions. 

BoB reversed the whole thing without even trying to contact me. If i did not look at my statement, i would never have realised they re-instated the commission and created an expectation with the client that i am about to ship an item.

Kindest regards
Deta 

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kebs

Either Bob has become excessively greedy, or else it's a sinking ship that needs the little R1's here & there to stay afloat. If a buyer gets their money back, the success fee should be credited back to the seller, regardless of the reason. Full stop. This is just another way, like the postage fees they are now taking, to force sellers to go elsewhere. So either their greed or bankruptcy, whichever one it is, will end up being their own demise. I recently recommended to several colleagues to join to sell their items, I have since told them in no uncertain terms, to avoid at all costs.

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Serthentia Sales

I have orders with the same situation, final value fees NOT refunded. Regular commission refunded, Final Value still charged.

Order 13844886 - SNC completed 20 March for non payment. Final Value Fee charged 29 March

Order 13753258 - SNC completed 26 February, before the Final Value Fees were even started. Final Value Fee charged 13 March, more than 2 weeks after SNC was finalised for non-payment

 

It seems that even after an SNC has been completed, if a buyer completes checkout (even if no payment is made), the final value fee then gets charged. I am sure Bid or Buy's spin doctors win come up with some way to justify this, but in reality it is just another way to steal from us. The fact of the matter is that NO FEES SHOULD BE CHARGED UNTIL THE BUYER HAD MADE PAYMENT FOR AN ORDER!!! END OF STORY. And there is definitely zero justification for charging fees AFTER an SNC has been completed unless payment has been made.

 

Everyone please check all of your old orders, even from before the Final Value fees came into place because I am sure alot of you will also have final value fees being charged from orders in February or even January

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