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Allstar

Are sellers allowed to use discreet bidding on a laptop auction?

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Allstar

I noticed some sellers use discreet bidding on items that obviously don't require discreetness in the way Bidorbuy intended it, it makes me think some shill bidding must be going on behind the scenes.

Is discreet bidding allowed on any auction even if the goods clearly do not require it?

This is a good example:

https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/326516972/TOUCHSCREEN_LENOVO_ULTRABOOK_T450S_INTEL_CORE_i5_5THGEN_500GBHDD_8GBRAM_FULL_HD.html

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admin

Hi Allstar,

Yes, the discreet bidding option is available to everyone for any listing. Some sellers use the function for high priced items so the winning bidder is anonymous in the event that someone "not so honest"  is keeping an eye on who wins valuable items and is in a position to intercept the parcels, sellers of dietary items use it as people tend to shy away buying items like that when their user name is visible to everyone and the list goes on.

Shill bidding is monitored, however, should you suspect foul play, please feel free to report the listings and it will be looked into.

Kind regards

Andries 

Had a look and could not find a link to the seller and bidder in your link.

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Allstar

The point is how can users hope to spot shill bidding when the bidding history/bidders names are hidden?

Extremely high value items and products that can potentially be embarrassing to the buyer I can understand but a R5000 laptops I don't?

If the seller has no clue who will be bidding or buying an item then what really is the point of discreet bidding to prevent parcel interception unless Bidorbuy has noticed an issue with people intercepting parcels and then rather needs to make discreet mandatory for all items sold over a certain value?

I would think to function as intended discreet listings need to be restricted to certain categories(ie those that may embarass the buyer due to the inherent nature of the item) and for items over a certain minimum value.

 

 

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admin

Hi Allstar,

There is no issue noticed. My answer is based on feedback received from buyers and sellers alike regarding the usage of the discreet function.

Kind regards

Andries

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Allstar

With discreet enabled on an auction how can users spot shill bidding when the bidding history/bidders names are hidden?

 

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mrmouse

i personally think all items should automatically be discreet , it stops nosey people digging around in other peoples business.

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Allstar
11 hours ago, mrmouse said:

i personally think all items should automatically be discreet , it stops nosey people digging around in other peoples business.

Troll, nobody cares what you think.

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Allstar
On 2/17/2018 at 9:12 PM, admin said:

Hi Allstar,

There is no issue noticed. My answer is based on feedback received from buyers and sellers alike regarding the usage of the discreet function.

Kind regards

Andries

 

On 2/17/2018 at 9:46 PM, Allstar said:

With discreet enabled on an auction how can users spot shill bidding when the bidding history/bidders names are hidden?

 

Hi Andries, would you address this concern of mine please, if it's invalid then please do explain, that would be appreciated.

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admin

Hi Allstar,

The discreet listing function has been discussed numerous times before on the forum. Agreed, it is not easy for normal users to see if there is shill bidding with these listings, one way to notice would be if the seller lists the same item for more than once after it successfully sold. Especially if it a second hand item, then please report it, if it is new the seller might have more than one to sell, but still feel free to report it. However, as stated before, there is systems in place to look for shill bidding and it is monitored on a daily basis and if it is proven, the steps as set out in the listing policy is taken.

Quote

 

10. Shill bidding:
10.1. Bidding on your own listings or items to inflate or manipulate the price or the auction is not allowed.

10.2. Having family members or friends bid on items to manipulate pricing is not allowed.

10.3. Buying accounts registered and used for shill bidding will be disabled.

10.4. Sellers that engage in shill bidding could have their account restricted or disabled.

10.5. Restricted selling accounts may be required to pay a R500 administration fee to have the account restriction reviewed. 

https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/help/444/Listing_Policy

Kind regards

Andries

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Allstar

Hi Andries thanks for the reply

It is too easy for sellers to bypass controls on shill bidding as it is now, ip based monitoring is pointless, that will only catch novices and it's even easier to do when using discreet listings because the end users can't even monitor the bidding.

I've reported countless sellers that list the same 2hnd item more than once after it successfully sold, nothing happens community watch just checks ip addresses and says no foul. It happens especially on the R1 auctions week in week out, I've given up reporting it because it's pointless seeing nothing will be done.

I also often see high value items that sell below going value on R1 auctions being won by a buyer that's registered on the same day or day before, some sellers in particular are unusually prone to this. Perhaps it can happen every so often that a brand new seller is ready to spend R6k on laptop the day after registering but not that frequently or alternatively a freshly registered seller will be 2nd or 3rd highest bidder on all the guys auctions.

Also the same group of sellers that list every week on the crazy auctions will be pushing the bidding higher on their competitors goods, not to pick up a bargain but at prices near to what they would hope to sell the same laptop at. No seller buys stock that close to the price they could ever hope to sell them at unless they work together to push their auction prices up.

I have been watching this process for a long time and I can perhaps understand that sellers can't take the risk on a unsecured R1 auction selling a R4-8k item without shill bidding as a backup plan but it defeats the point when that is the case and it is clearly against the rules?

Edited by Allstar

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Allstar

Speak of the devil!!

The 2hnd laptop incl pics that motivated me to start this thread is now back on auction, same specs same everything:

https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=327656076

I asked the guy and he even acknowledged that it's the same laptop that was "sold" last week.

Andries worthy of looking into?

 

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mrmouse

on a discreet listing is it possible to add a number to the D showing how many times the person has upped the price  , D3 ,,D4 etc,

these days with profiling i still think D is best ,i have bid on items and lost ,only to have an sms offer sent 3 days later ,its not difficult to trace a buyer ,

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mrmouse

i questioned it with BoB ,but never really got a reply

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admin

Hi Allstar,

The previous buyer did not complete the sale and the laptop was relisted. I have been monitoring the accounts since your post on Thursday and could not find anything suspicious on either. Linking users on IP only is old school, methods has increased since then. Thank you for the report.

Kind regards

Andries

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Allstar
On 2/25/2018 at 7:20 PM, admin said:

Hi Allstar,

The previous buyer did not complete the sale and the laptop was relisted. I have been monitoring the accounts since your post on Thursday and could not find anything suspicious on either. Linking users on IP only is old school, methods has increased since then. Thank you for the report.

Kind regards

Andries

Andries the sale not completed excuse is what they all use, how do you verify whether that is a legitimate excuse?

Other than IP addresses or tracking cookies what can you really use?

I am an admin on another website and in reality apart from those 2 and some common sense there's not much legally that you can do to track fake or duplicate accounts.

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mrmouse
On 2/19/2018 at 11:57 PM, Allstar said:

Troll, nobody cares what you think.

Troll , why thank you , quite clearly you care about what I said , so because i commented im a troll , i obviously hit a nerve , poepall.

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Allstar
On 2/25/2018 at 7:20 PM, admin said:

Hi Allstar,

The previous buyer did not complete the sale and the laptop was relisted. I have been monitoring the accounts since your post on Thursday and could not find anything suspicious on either. Linking users on IP only is old school, methods has increased since then. Thank you for the report.

Kind regards

Andries

 

On 3/9/2018 at 5:36 PM, Allstar said:

Andries the sale not completed excuse is what they all use, how do you verify whether that is a legitimate excuse?

Other than IP addresses or tracking cookies what can you really use?

I am an admin on another website and in reality apart from those 2 and some common sense there's not much legally that you can do to track fake or duplicate accounts.

Andries I'd appreciate if you'd respond to my reply please.

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admin

Hi Allstar,

Apologies for the very late reply. We have actions in place that is totally above board. Unfortunately I can not discuss them as it will render our system we have in place to proof that they are shill bidding useless.

Kind regards

Andries

 

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