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The Watch World

Clarification required from BoB regarding the ludicrous new fee structure

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Deonrick

Just so buy the way, i did a little digging around... Bid or Buy has the following terms and conditions under payment methods:

2.3. You acknowledge the nature of bobPay and accordingly agree that the operation of bobPay is known to you and you accept that it is suitable for the purpose it is intended to be used and further to this you acknowledge that:
2.3.1. bidorbuy is not a bank and the Service is a payment processing service rather than a banking service; and
2.3.2. bidorbuy is not acting as a trustee, fiduciary or escrow with respect to your funds, but is acting only as a custodian;
2.3.3. accepting bobPay credit card payments, there is a flat payment processing fee of 5% payable on all payments conducted through bobPay (fees are non-refundable);
2.3.4. accepting Discovery Miles payments, there is a flat payment processing fee of 5% payable on all payments conducted through bidorbuy (fees are non-refundable);
2.3.5. accepting Bitcoin payments, there is a flat payment processing fee of 2.28% payable on all payments conducted through bidorbuy (fees are non-refundable);
2.3.6. accepting mobicred payments incurs a flat payment processing fee of 3.42% payable on all payments conducted through bidorbuy (fees are non-refundable);
2.3.7. accepting Snapscan payments incurs a flat payment processing fee of 3.5% payable on all payments conducted through bidorbuy (fees are non-refundable);
2.3.8. accepting SCode payments incurs a flat payment processing fee of 3.99% payable on all payments conducted through bidorbuy (fees are non-refundable);
12. No Surcharges
12.1. Under Visa, MasterCard, Diners and American Express regulations, merchants may not charge a fee to the Buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge").
12.2. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting bobPay payment method which may include but is not limited to, Credit Card, bobPay EFT or Discovery Miles, mobicred and Snapscan.

Consumer Protection Act, which states in section 23 (6) (b) that “a supplier must not require a consumer to pay a price for any goods or services if more than one price is concurrently displayed, higher than the lower or lowest of the prices so displayed”.

If BoB Admits that you cannot pass the buck regarding Credit Card Commission fees, why are they doing it themselves? They are only making MORE profit out of the banks.

Another point, It seems that Snapscan and SCode was automatically loaded onto Sellers payment methods. Discovered it the weekend, and another seller says it happened a few months ago, when a client all of a sudden wanted to do funny payments. 

PLEASE go look yourselves. 

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Asha Craft

So guess what I just did. First sale this morning. R121.00, courier door to door outlaying area R113.63 - buyer pays R234.63

Commission usually paid R6.05 - Commission I will now have to pay R19.51 - That is a 223% INCREASE IN FEES.

I have no other reaction than: ARE YOU FREAKIN' INSANE BIDORBUY???????????????????????????????  

Bidorbuy fee ripoff.jpg

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

i SUGGEST a flat RATE OF 5.5% ON FINAL ORDER FEE and scrap all these complicated fee structures,similar to ebay but less % as we get less bang for our buck.

OR increase the flat rate to 6% excluding the shipping and address the sellers making money of postage and not contributing to bobs coffers meaningfully.

I understand the need for bob to get commission on the R1 vendors making money off postage and that they cannot moniter it or address it due to various factors

On a R100 order and basic register mail at R40 THE difference in fees due to bob will be an increase of 64%(as per this example,can differ on the type of postage and combning of orders etc but can be more or little less depending on amount of postage charged,but then bob covers all bases.

This is already a huge increase but can be absorbed between buyers and sellers and make things simple,not complicated

Listing fees are another area needs attention,some innovation required here and some incentives to top sellers in each category and some decisions need to be made on amount of listings for free that just fill the site with rubbish

thats a story for another day...

 

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Deonrick
2 minutes ago, ATA STAMP CENTRE said:

i SUGGEST a flat RATE OF 5.5% ON FINAL ORDER FEE and scrap all these complicated fee structures,similar to ebay but less % as we get less bang for our buck.

OR increase the flat rate to 6% excluding the shipping and address the sellers making money of postage and not contributing to bobs coffers meaningfully.

I understand the need for bob to get commission on the R1 vendors making money off postage and that they cannot moniter it or address it due to various factors

On a R100 order and basic register mail at R40 THE difference in fees due to bob will be an increase of 64%(as per this example,can differ on the type of postage and combning of orders etc but can be more or little less depending on amount of postage charged,but then bob covers all bases.

This is already a huge increase but can be absorbed between buyers and sellers and make things simple,not complicated

Listing fees are another area needs attention,some innovation required here and some incentives to top sellers in each category and some decisions need to be made on amount of listings for free that just fill the site with rubbish

thats a story for another day...

 

I personally will support a Flat 6% on  the basic Auction value will be understandable, and we can live with it. But the Charges on Shipping fees are NOT acceptable under any circumstances.... BoB is really trying to dodge this one... 

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Asha Craft

What about PARGO? Buyer pays R60, Bidorbuy charges us R55 (giving us R5 to cover the packaging - haha too little anyway), now they want to take R3.93 commission on PARGO, leaving us with R1.07 for packaging. How is this fair Bidorbuy? How is any of this beneficial to the buyer? (who might get a broken item because R1.07 does not cover bubblewrap, bubble envelope/cardboard box (this is not free!!)

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Deonrick
17 hours ago, The Watch World said:

Just a thought here. The bright sparks at Bidorbuy that thought up the plan to charge a fee on shipping clearly aren't that bright after all. Johan claims that the fee is designed to stop sellers charging excessive postage. Well, the fee charged on my products is 9.975%, while the fee charged on my shipping is 6.555%.

For this reason, I will be doubling the price of my shipping to cover their excessive increase, which is exactly the opposite effect that they were planning on. Maybe it should be back to the drawing board for Johan and his cronies...?

I urge all of you to do the same if you sell any products in the two higher tier categories. It'll save you some money, as well as show them how very poorly thought out and implemented this increase was.

 

 

@Deonrick

Quite keen to find out if they are willing to submit their financials.

That is too true. 

Yes i do hope to get them soon 

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Deonrick
3 minutes ago, Asha Craft said:

What about PARGO? Buyer pays R60, Bidorbuy charges us R55 (giving us R5 to cover the packaging - haha too little anyway), now they want to take R3.93 commission on PARGO, leaving us with R1.07 for packaging. How is this fair Bidorbuy? How is any of this beneficial to the buyer? (who might get a broken item because R1.07 does not cover bubblewrap, bubble envelope/cardboard box (this is not free!!)

HAHAHAHAHA. Utter insanity. esp as you need to print and buy stuff from them.. R1.07 will never cove the expenses associated with Shipping!  Maybe 30 years ago you could get away with it?

A small box costs me R1.65 odd at Westpack.... So it is already a deadloss. 

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

And whats upwith email notifications this morning,sold 30 items on weekend auction last night,to date received one email for one sale notificication,plus some oders paid already on the order but no notifications received for these-first time this has happend as i never have email problems,

Hope we not being targeted for trying to help BOB correct itself?

BOB used to be a family some years ago when i joined and family looks after each other.WE had top sellers get togethers,there was constructive debate and some changes were even implemented on our input,an example is on the selling page where all sales were lumped together and i suggested a split box showing normal sales and seperating the promotional sales so we sellers could see what the figures were,and this was implemented,also the message system that sellers could send messages to buyers, re the order sytems was tweaked as per our input,WHERE ARE THOSE DAYS?

Some of us sellers have a good understanding of the business but are we ever consulted?

Lastly they did some category changes last year and guess what,no-one asked our input and now we have worse heading and sub categories that are useless and after emails to category dept heads still no reply or changes etc-These are not things for ones ego,but genuine input to improve the site and make it easier for buyer and seller and IMPROVE SALES AND ULTIMATELY IMPROVE PROFITS ALL ROUND!!FOR BOB AND THE SELLERS AND A BETTER EXPERIENCE FOR BUYERS

SImple really!!

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Little Miss Muffet

I am sure you have all noticed that Bidorbuy follows our IP addresses with advertising especially displaying items we have viewed or similar items

This is probably one of the things we are going to be paying for.

It just gets to me that one of the most difficult things to source like antiques and collectables has such a high rate of commission.Really unfair.

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Allstar
14 hours ago, Asha Craft said:

So guess what I just did. First sale this morning. R121.00, courier door to door outlaying area R113.63 - buyer pays R234.63

Commission usually paid R6.05 - Commission I will now have to pay R19.51 - That is a 223% INCREASE IN FEES.

I have no other reaction than: ARE YOU FREAKIN' INSANE BIDORBUY???????????????????????????????  

Bidorbuy fee ripoff.jpg

That is insane, that's honest sellers now being heavily penalized, courier fees are expensive there is nothing you can do about it.

People I hate to break it to you but But Bidorbuy/Johan/Andries don't give a rats ass what you think or what your opinion is.

You would better serve your time banging your head against a wall than trying to get some sense or logic out of them.

Typically you'll get some nonsensical reply and then radio silence, or perhaps a last sorry this matter is closed bye bye...

 

Look at the thread below which I started recently, textbook Bidorbuy support, they answer your question without actually addressing the concern that motivated you to bring up the issue.

They'll repeatedly ignore it, if you try push it further then there'll generally be no further reply, as we have seen on this thread.

I've raised my concern 4 times so far in the thread, lets see if Andries bothers to reply with something meaningful.

 

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Seeds for Africa
22 hours ago, ATA STAMP CENTRE said:

i SUGGEST a flat RATE OF 5.5% ON FINAL ORDER FEE and scrap all these complicated fee structures,similar to ebay but less % as we get less bang for our buck.

I tend to agree that something like this would be more palatable then the current increase. Sadly though, whilst Johan initially engaged with the community - he has now gone silent! The days when bob would engage with their customers (think back to when Cuan was the operations manager) seem to be a thing of the past. I also think back to the time when this forum was very active - there was a lot of love for bidorbuy by the community. Talking to sellers today, that love has all but evaporated.

Imagine for a moment if every seller on the site increased their prices by the same percentage as bidorbuy are doing......... sales would totally dry up. 

If the sellers concerns are not addressed with some sincerity by bidorbuy, I fear that irreversible damage will be done. I do hope that the issue can be resolved as it would be a sad day for everyone to see both sellers leaving the site and bidorbuy losing the revenue from those sellers.

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Deonrick
12 hours ago, Little Miss Muffet said:

I am sure you have all noticed that Bidorbuy follows our IP addresses with advertising especially displaying items we have viewed or similar items

This is probably one of the things we are going to be paying for.

It just gets to me that one of the most difficult things to source like antiques and collectables has such a high rate of commission.Really unfair.

IP Address is followed to "Prevent and curb Shill Bidding"

 

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Deonrick

@ATA STAMP CENTRE , you do see you are accepting snapscan?

Also how did you have BobPay EFT removed from your payment profile?

@Seeds and All has all the payment options activated.

@Seeds for Africa you do too. Snapscan and Scode as well.

@Asha Craft you also have all the payment options activated. 

Did  you agree to  them all? Seems like  the "system" added some options without the sellers approval.

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Asha Craft
3 hours ago, Deonrick said:

@ATA STAMP CENTRE , you do see you are accepting snapscan?

Also how did you have BobPay EFT removed from your payment profile?

@Seeds and All has all the payment options activated.

@Seeds for Africa you do too. Snapscan and Scode as well.

@Asha Craft you also have all the payment options activated. 

Did  you agree to  them all? Seems like  the "system" added some options without the sellers approval.

I've always allowed all the payment methods, it engages more buyers in my opinion - BUT (HUGE BUT!!) Bidorbuy claims it will now be cheaper because all these payment fees for Credit Card, PayPal, etc etc is lumped in with the "Final Sales Fee". That is bull, because as per my screenshot above, 5% commission of R121 is R6.05, and if the buyer paid via Credit Card, the commission on the OLD FEE STRUCTURE would be R11.73 (on total order amount R234.63). So the MAXIMUM I would have paid on the old structure is R17.78. (item commission R6.05, Credit Card commission R11.73). But wait, there's more. If this buyer does NOT pay via ANY of the "old fee incurring methods", meaning plain old EFT, then Bidorbuy scores one motherload in commission. Now I will have to pay R19.51 even if the buyer pays via EFT.....  Because according to Bidorbuy this "New fee structure" is cheaper and easier to calculate....

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Deonrick
3 minutes ago, Asha Craft said:

I've always allowed all the payment methods, it engages more buyers in my opinion - BUT (HUGE BUT!!) Bidorbuy claims it will now be cheaper because all these payment fees for Credit Card, PayPal, etc etc is lumped in with the "Final Sales Fee". That is bull, because as per my screenshot above, 5% commission of R121 is R6.05, and if the buyer paid via Credit Card, the commission on the OLD FEE STRUCTURE would be R11.73 (on total order amount R234.63). So the MAXIMUM I would have paid on the old structure is R17.78. (item commission R6.05, Credit Card commission R11.73). But wait, there's more. If this buyer does NOT pay via ANY of the "old fee incurring methods", meaning plain old EFT, then Bidorbuy scores one motherload in commission. Now I will have to pay R19.51 even if the buyer pays via EFT.....  Because according to Bidorbuy this "New fee structure" is cheaper and easier to calculate....

Yes. is the main reason why we stayed away from the other options. 

Old structure. R10 item with R60 postage, R0.50 commission.

New structure, R5 commission. 

1000% increase in fees.

And PO is going with an Average of 10%.......

to me, it feels like the "Shipping/final order order fee" is just there to cover the Payment options cost actually...

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Asha Craft
14 minutes ago, Deonrick said:

Well people new postal rates are out.... 10% increase on this front as well..

https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/41377_gen6.pdf

 

Great stuff. Bidorbuy is 100% shooting themselves here. Because now with their increase of 6.65% and SAPO's increase of 7.65% - that means we can raise our shipping fees with 14.3%  - Way to go Bidorbuy! - The buyers will know that this is because of new Bidorbuy rules.

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

I am amazed at how few buyers and sellers are aware of these new fee structures

I have spoken to a few and many did not even know about this,when they did check they almost had heart attacks

I also at first skipped the fee rate card and did not bother to look thinking it would be nominal or of no consequence,it was only when i read the forum posting that i went to see and saw the horrific charges to be implemented

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ladybean

I totally agree. I sell books online. Is it not illegal for them to charge us a percentage on postage?? I will not be able to continue selling on bidorbuy if they implement the new fee structure!!!

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ATA STAMP CENTRE
2 hours ago, ladybean said:

I totally agree. I sell books online. Is it not illegal for them to charge us a percentage on postage?? I will not be able to continue selling on bidorbuy if they implement the new fee structure!!!

I reallly feel for the book sellers,postage already makes it difficult for sales due to high postage cost since the econoparcel was raised by SAPO a while back,and now this will break the camels back.

I see BOB has now added a facility where the commission payable on the sale is shown on the order,thank you,very helpful but a few years late i think what with the new commissions being implemented soon.

NOW IF THEY SHOWED THE NEW COMMISSIONS THAT WOULD BE PAYABLE SHORTLY NEXT TO THE OLD ONES SO A COMPARISON CAN BE MADE,THAT WOULD BE ENLIGHTENING!!

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Deonrick

WoW, so amazing, R154.50 transaction, now costs me R5.50.. new Structure, it will be R12.77. EXCL "Shipping"

I just love this saving.

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All Music
Quote

 

It is also likely that some sellers will try to list some items in the wrong category so they can pay the lower commission.

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Deonrick
1 minute ago, All Music said:

It is also likely that some sellers will try to list some items in the wrong category so they can pay the lower commission.

They can try, but BoB can move it or request it to be moved. 

It is a serious breach of the terms and conditions apparently.

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Little Miss Muffet

I have just spoken to my son on Skype from the UK.He trades on Ebay.His reaction to telling him about our increased charges was "Mom I have been paying charges like that for years" Nevertheless Bidorbuy cannot be compared to Ebay except that it operates in the same way.

The antique and collectables are like comparing a volkswagen beetle to a ferrari

Edited by Little Miss Muffet

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Deonrick
7 hours ago, Little Miss Muffet said:

I have just spoken to my son on Skype from the UK.He trades on Ebay.His reaction to telling him about our increased charges was "Mom I have been paying charges like that for years" Nevertheless Bidorbuy cannot be compared to Ebay except that it operates in the same way.

The antique and collectables are like comparing a volkswagen beetle to a ferrari

Yes, i also trade on Ebay. 

The difference is the client base.

Shipping. In most other parts of the world, shipping is a tiny fraction of the cost and also soooo much more reliable. 

Also correct me if i am wrong, Ebay is translated into different languages to accommodate more users. 

Ebay>bidorbuy if someone wants an equation...

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