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Clarification required from BoB regarding the ludicrous new fee structure

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Asha Craft
17 minutes ago, johan said:

At this stage when using any of the other payment methods such as CC, Bitcoin, Discovery Miles etc. the payment processing fee is applied to full amount paid. With the new structure all the processing costs are included and that is why that change is there. Also as mentioned this change will also discourage users from inflating shipping costs in order to circumvent fees. 

Still ignoring my question. Penalize the sellers that inflate shipping costs. Don't penalize someone like me that has no other option than to use a 3rd party courier at R111 per flyer. Email me Johan, and I will show you my courier account invoices. Now you want me to either lose money, or lose buyers because now R120 sounds ridiculous to a prospective buyer.

I've been here 12 years. Bidorbuy made 6 figures out of me in the past 12 months. Look at my account. Does my opinion count for anything?

Now you want to basically double my success fees (including the ridiculous final sales value) because I'm a jewellery seller?

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Hastae
As a loyal member of the Bidorbuy community, I do understand that there will be a yearly increase in fees. I would expect something in the region of 6% to 8%. This would be in line with the current inflation rate. Your increase in the basic rate is at 99%. I find this very hard to accept.. In addition to this, you are also charging a commission on the postage charged. This brings your rate increase to ABOVE 100%. You are going to kill the goose that lays your golden eggs. Please let me know how you arrived at such a VAST increase in your charges, or maybe you have made a error.
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Best Bargains For All

I am sorry Johan, but I do not believe you can be so stupid to think that we will buy these bulls#@t excuses. Or is it that Bid or Buy believe all of it's sellers are stupid?

 

Stating that " this change will also discourage users from inflating shipping costs in order to circumvent fees " is utter rubbish. You already have a system in place where you charge sellers who have excessive shipping 5% of the shipping fee. That policy is ALREADY IN PLACE so to say you need to penalize ALL SELLERS is utter rubbish!!!

And if the management at BoB really think that this is going to "encourage sellers to have lower shipping costs" then i am sorry but there obviously is not a brain cell shared between the whole management structure. No sellers are going to incorporate this theft into their own expenses. This extra cost will be added to the shipping costs and passed on to the buyer, meaning shipping prices will be higher across the board.

 

Further, it is nowhere near "beneficial" to sellers who operate on very low profit margins to be forced to take extra fees by incorporating them into the fee structure. I have never received any payments besides bobPay. Therefore 100% of my sales are going to be more than doubled in costs for no reason whatsoever except for the utter greed of Bid or Buy. Leave the fees as they were so that sellers may choose to take the extra fees for alternate payment options, and so that the fees will only be charged IF THOSE PAYMENT OPTIONS ARE ACTUALLY USED TO PAY. What you are doing now is making us pay credit card processing fees for payments WHICH ARE PAID VIA EFT. Where does that money go then? INTO BOB'S GREEDY COFFERS

 

Edited by Best Bargains For All
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Johan
1 minute ago, Allstar said:

It doesn't change the point he's making though, that if the bulk of your payments are received as EFT you are getting fleeced with the revised fees?

The point I am trying to make without going into specific numbers in a user's account is that when looking at the sales I do not think the vast majority is EFT as stated and I do expect that with these changes the amount of transactions using other methods will continue to increase. 

 

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Johan
4 hours ago, Little Miss Muffet said:

Vat is already included in Post Office charges so I cannot see that charging us vat on postage is legal

We are not charging Vat on postage. We are charging a fee to process the transaction. Final value fees is also added on when a user overpays on an order where they maybe want 2 items instead of 1 and did not update the order. 

The fee that we Charge is inclusive of VAT. 

I hope it clears it up. 

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Allstar
19 minutes ago, johan said:

The point I am trying to make without going into specific numbers in a user's account is that when looking at the sales I do not think the vast majority is EFT as stated and I do expect that with these changes the amount of transactions using other methods will continue to increase. 

 

You are not denying that if the bulk of the payments a seller receives is EFT they are getting fleeced with the revised fees.

99% of my sales are paid with via EFT and I have no desire to have it any other way, that is my choice and one I have considered as appropriate for the kind of sales I make.

What options are there for me in this revised fee offering to be charged a fee reflective of the costs to process an EFT payment and not have to inccur fee's that are reflective of the cost to process a creditcard payment?

 

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Best Bargains For All
12 minutes ago, johan said:

We are not charging Vat on postage. We are charging a fee to process the transaction. Final value fees is also added on when a user overpays on an order where they maybe want 2 items instead of 1 and did not update the order. 

The fee that we Charge is inclusive of VAT. 

I hope it clears it up. 

So you are saying now that lets say the courier fee is R120 and the item is R1000. The buyer the pays a total of R1120, item fee and postage. Therefore there will not be a fee charged for the "final value fee" and you will only charge the commission on the R1000 item sale price???

Because that is not what you said in your previous posts. And if you are charging a "final value fee" on the R120, THEN YOU ARE CHARGING BOTH COMMISSION AND VAT ON THE POSTAGE.

And your fees are NOT inclusive of VAT!!! How is the below inclusive of vat??? ex VAT means excluding VAT!!!

 

Success Fee % ex Vat (1 March 2018) Category Name
5.75% ex VAT Cell Phones & Accessories, Coins & Notes, Computers & Networking, Electronics, Gaming,  Movies & Television,Music & Instruments, Photo & Video
7.25% ex VAT Bikes, Boats & Other Vehicles, Business, Farming & Industry, Car Parts & Accessories,Crafts, Health & Beauty, Home & Living, Stamps
8.75% ex VAT Antiques & Collectables, Art, Baby, Books & Education, 
Clothing, Shoes & Accessories, Garden, Outdoor Living & Pets, Gemstones & Rocks, Gift Vouchers & Coupons, Holistic & Esoteric, Jewellery & Watches, Militaria, Sport & Leisure, 
Toys & Hobbies, Travel & Entertainment, Unusual, X- Rated Adult Material
2.5% ex VAT Cars


Final order value fee. 

The final order value fee is applied to the difference between the item sales value and the final order value (including shipping or other payments made). This fee is based on the lowest category success fee percentage, which is currently 5.75% excluding VAT. 

Edited by Best Bargains For All
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RiverValleyTrading

I'm a seller on the site, and I would like to encourage further posts on this thread to propose solutions, as opposed to bashing the new policy. Let us work together to get better  understadning and bring about some sort of compromise and change.  

Therefore, to get the ball rolling, I would like to propose a suggestion regarding the final order fee as mentioned earlier in the thread by Johan.

His point was related to cases where the buyer would ask the seller to add in other items they forgot to order and just pay extra shipping, so the site loses out on the success fees. 

I can't say how much of this is going on, but  I do understand that in this case the process can be manipulated by the buyer and seller to avoid paying fees. However,  I do feel that the large majority of users on the site (buyers and sellers) value their feedback and ratings score much more than a saving fees for the odd transaction. I would say for the majority of orders, the difference between the items sales price and the final order cost is purely the shpping and handling cost. I don't think it is fair to sellers (and by logical extension buyers) to have to pay fees on shipping and handling costs. How else is the buyer going to get his items?

Therfore, I would like to suggest that the final order fee ONLY apply if the difference between the item sales price and the final order cost is above R150? (or some sort agreeable standard shipping charge).   

Secondly, I would like to suggest Bidorbuy set up some sort of agreement with courier companies / Post Office to help sellers lower shipping costs across the enitre site. 

Your thoughts? 

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RiverValleyTrading
50 minutes ago, johan said:

We are not charging Vat on postage. We are charging a fee to process the transaction. Final value fees is also added on when a user overpays on an order where they maybe want 2 items instead of 1 and did not update the order. 

The fee that we Charge is inclusive of VAT. 

I hope it clears it up. 

I understand that your intention is not to get a commission form shipping costs, but the case you mention seems like it's more the exception rahter than the norm. Hence, The way the Final Order Fee is coming across to sellers looks as if you are trying to get a cut from shipping costs. Surely, you can track cases where there are big discrepancies between the order and final price and then handle those exceptions with the buyer. (ask them to provide some valid reason etc.) 

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

These increases can not be whitewashed,BOB can still review this else they going to lose many sellers and buyers and we know what then happens.

There is no way these increases are justified,most of us sellers break even at the moment and with the increases allround we going to go but one way

And many of us have been on bob a long time and helped make bob successful so please listen before its too late

If consultants were used then they must have been TRILLION OR MACKINSEY

THIS WILL KILL BOB

 

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Best Bargains For All

Every answer given by Johan so far is nothing short of an insult to our intelligence as sellers.

This is what MUST HAPPEN to satisfy the sellers who pay BoB's salaries:

1. NO CHARGES LEVIED AGAINST SHIPPING COSTS, EXCEPT FOR SELLERS WHO ABUSE THE SHIPPING AND OVERCHARGE FOR SHIPPING, AS PER THE POLICY THAT IS ALREADY IN PLACE. WE HONEST SELLERS WHO CHARGE ONLY OUR COST FOR DELIVERY (AND SOMETIMES EVEN LESS THAN OUR COST) REFUSE TO BE TAKEN FOR A RIDE AND BE CHARGED DUE TO A FEW USERS ABUSING THE SYSTEM. CHARGE THE ABUSERS, WE WILL NOT PAY FOR THEIR UNETHICAL ACTIONS!!!!!

2. BIDORBUY MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO PENALIZE SELLERS JUST DUE TO THE NATURE OF THE PRODUCT HE/SHE IS SELLING. SAME RATES FOR ALL SELLERS, EQUAL TREATMENT!!! TAKE THE 3 DIFFERENT CHARGES BASED ON CATEGORY, ADD THEM TOGETHER AND DIVIDE BY 3, YOU GET A CHARGE OF 7.25% ACROSS THE BOARD.

Johan mentioned the lower fees for categories such as computers due to them having low margins. Well how about a seller who is selling fashion jewellery, especially on the crazy R1 auctions. I can guarantee that seller's margins are no higher and probably lower than the computer sellers. But this seller now must pay double? THAT IS UNJUST AND UNACCEPTABLE. WE DEMAND THE SAME FEES PAYABLE AS ANY OTHER SELLER!!!

3 THE LISTED COMMISSION STRUCTURE AS ADVERTISED MUST ALSO INCLUDE VAT. NONE OF THIS BOLLOCKS THAT VAT IS EXCLUDED IN YOUR STATED PRICES. IT IS VERY EASY FOR YOU TO INCLUDE VAT IN YOUR ADVERTISED PRICES, SO WE DO NOT HAVE TO DO ALL THE MATH TO ADD THE VAT AFTERWARDS. EXCLUDING VAT LIKE THIS IS DONE FOR ONLY A SINGLE REASON, TO TRY AND DECEIVE SELLERS INTO BELIEVING THAT THE PRICE INCREASES ARE LESS THAN THEY REALLY ARE. DISHONEST AND UNETHICAL. I AM SURE YOU REALIZE NOW, JOHAN AND FELLOW MANAGEMENT, THAT US SELLERS ARE NOT AS STUPID AS YOU BELIEVED WE WERE AND WE VERY EASILY SEE THROUGH THIS DISHONEST PRACTICE OF TRYING TO HIDE THE REAL INCREASES BY EXCLUDING VAT. YOU SAY THAT THE OLD TIERED SYSTEM WAS COMPLICATED? WELL US AS SELLERS DISAGREE. IT WAS PERFECTLY EASY TO UNDERSTAND, AND HAS NOT CAUSED ANY PROBLEMS FOR SELLERS FOR ALL THE YEARS THAT THE SYSTEM HAS BEEN IN PLACE.

 

I believe the rest of the sellers will agree with me that the above are our demands and we will fight until these very reasonable demands are met!!!

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RiverValleyTrading

I would also like to suggest the following: 

A tool for sellers so that they can see what the fees will be before hand so that they can set the price of their items accordingly.  I feel that in trying to amke the fee calculation 'smarter' it has become far more complicated, and might scare away the seller who would just like  to offload all his old household items / goods. (This is the fun stuff I love to find on BoB

The price of an item is the most important thing to both a prospective buyer and seller and there should be absolutely no ambiguity or misunderstanding in how much the buyer will pay and how much the seller will receive. 

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Serthentia Sales

I agree with the other sellers. We are not going to sit back and tolerate this. The sellers on Bid or Buy have been kicked around for long enough. This is where it STOPS!!! A kicked dog will only take so many kicks before it turns around and bites the foot doing the kicking. Well this dog (the sellers as a collective) have been kicked by BoB for the last time. Now we will BITE!!! We will fight this until our demands are met. We will not lie down on this matter, as this will put us out of business and affect people's livelihoods which is where the line must be drawn.

 

I agree 100% with BEST BARGAINS FOR ALL that those should be our demands, and that those demands are 100% reasonable.

I propose a march to Bid or Buy's offices (for all Gauteng sellers and any others who can make it) to hand in a memorandum of our demands to Bid or Buy's CEO and to have him address our demands to our faces.

 

I have also opened a petition for this matter, and I urge all sellers on BoB to sign this petition, and also encourage all of your buyers to sign as well, as this issue will also affect them indirectly due to the cost increases the sellers will need to implement to cover Bid or Buy's new policy of robbery. Forward the petition link to everyone you know and ask them to take a couple of minutes of their time to sign the petition. I have used the demands as set out by BEST BARGAINS FOR ALL as the basis for the petition, as I think all will agree the demands there are reasonable and are what we are looking for. The petition link is https://www.gopetition.com/petitions/demands-for-just-treatment-of-sellers-on-bidorbuycoza.html

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Serthentia Sales

Take a stand.jpg

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lavenderhaven

We would like to support points 1&2 that Best Bargains for All has made. Please listen to these sensible suggestions and support your sellers. We are the ones who make your money!!

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Serthentia Sales
3 minutes ago, lavenderhaven said:

We would like to support points 1&2 that Best Bargains for All has made. Please listen to these sensible suggestions and support your sellers. We are the ones who make your money!!

Please sign the petitition and ask all your buyers and friends/family members to sign in support as well

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RiverValleyTrading

I am sure the bidorbuy community and the site can all reach an amicable solution without resorting  to any drastic measures. Many sellers are angry, some have already have decided to leave. However, I am trying to steer the thread in a positive direction so we all can benefit. Let us suggest solutions. Bashing the site that creates the platform for your income will not help. 

A compromise must be reached. For starters, I propose delaying the implementation of the new fee structure until we get better clarity on the way it will work, and discuss proposed changes. 

I like bidorbuy because we are all part of a community here. Buyers and Sellers. I urge the site not take unilateral decisions without consulting members (especially when it comes to fees) 

 

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ATA STAMP CENTRE
1 hour ago, RiverValleyTrading said:

I am sure the bidorbuy community and the site can all reach an amicable solution without resorting  to any drastic measures. Many sellers are angry, some have already have decided to leave. However, I am trying to steer the thread in a positive direction so we all can benefit. Let us suggest solutions. Bashing the site that creates the platform for your income will not help. 

A compromise must be reached. For starters, I propose delaying the implementation of the new fee structure until we get better clarity on the way it will work, and discuss proposed changes. 

I like bidorbuy because we are all part of a community here. Buyers and Sellers. I urge the site not take unilateral decisions without consulting members (especially when it comes to fees) 

 

Correct,we are a community,many of us helped build this platform ,spent the schoolfees establishing the categories we sell in and factored BOB into our lives,24/7.

But it boggles the mind that anyone in management could just look at the commissions and decide this is what it will be without consultation,at least get some feedback etc

Where will the extra money come from??sellers are already under pressure and buyers disposable income is shrinking daily,so where will the extra money come from for the increases?sellers dont have it and buyers wont carry it all so sales will drop and sellers will disappear and buyers will get fewer and BOB income will SHRINK and NOT INCREASE

Does not take a genius to work that out....

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Serthentia Sales
6 minutes ago, ATA STAMP CENTRE said:

Correct,we are a community,many of us helped build this platform ,spent the schoolfees establishing the categories we sell in and factored BOB into our lives,24/7.

But it boggles the mind that anyone in management could just look at the commissions and decide this is what it will be without consultation,at least get some feedback etc

Where will the extra money come from??sellers are already under pressure and buyers disposable income is shrinking daily,so where will the extra money come from for the increases?sellers dont have it and buyers wont carry it all so sales will drop and sellers will disappear and buyers will get fewer and BOB income will SHRINK and NOT INCREASE

Does not take a genius to work that out....

100% correct. Please remember to sign the petition and also encourage all of your buyers/friends/family to sign in support.

If we all stick together and fight together, we can win this fight against the injustice being done

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Monty Python

We have done an exercise  for the month of January to see how the new fees would affect us. Our success fee would increase by 37.648%. We have taken into account the hidden expenses of credit cards etc.This does not seem to be a fair or just increase! We are not objecting to a small fee increase but this is going to hurt us badly.

What particularly upsets us is that we have always honestly charged shipping fees which are actually lower than our cost. We are now supposed to pay Bid or Buy 6.55% on these shipping fees. This seems to be most unreasonable. This is particularly a problem with courier charges which we have to keep as low as possible so that we do not scare customers away! I have read in the Forum your response, Johan, that you want to stop those who are abusing the system. Is it fair that the majority of honest sellers are being penalized because of the few rotten apples?

Your response will be appreciated.

 

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ATA STAMP CENTRE
3 minutes ago, Monty Python said:

We have done an exercise  for the month of January to see how the new fees would affect us. Our success fee would increase by 37.648%. We have taken into account the hidden expenses of credit cards etc.This does not seem to be a fair or just increase! We are not objecting to a small fee increase but this is going to hurt us badly.

What particularly upsets us is that we have always honestly charged shipping fees which are actually lower than our cost. We are now supposed to pay Bid or Buy 6.55% on these shipping fees. This seems to be most unreasonable. This is particularly a problem with courier charges which we have to keep as low as possible so that we do not scare customers away! I have read in the Forum your response, Johan, that you want to stop those who are abusing the system. Is it fair that the majority of honest sellers are being penalized because of the few rotten apples?

Your response will be appreciated.

 

AGREED,the shipping commission is purely to milk more money ,no other way this can be explained.

Small increase across the board can be substantiated,but the current proposals will drive sellers and buyers away,and than everyones income ,including BOB will dry up.

SURELY THIS CAN BE FORESEEN,THERE MUST BE SOME SANE HEADS AT BOBS HEADQUARTERS,AND TO DISCRIMINATE AGAINST CERTAIN CATEGORIES FOR COMMISSIONS CHARGED IS RIDICULOUS

The heydays when bob made small fortunes are past,that was the silly season some years back with various factors driving that period,and to try and recreate those fortunes with these commissions stuctures is crazy,the income will dry up and not increase!!!

 

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Best Bargains For All

Regarding Johan's statement that the commission charged on shipping fees now is to "prevent abuse of excessive shipping charges by sellers", I would like to direct everyone's attention to clause 6.3 of the listing policy which is already in place. This is 100% proof that Johan is outright lying to us, as a fair and just system to deal with excessive shipping is already in place.

6.3. Unreasonably high shipping charges on listings including insurance is not allowed. Shipping charges may only include the cost of delivery, packaging materials and insurance. bidorbuy in its sole discretion, reserves the right to charge a 5% penalty fee calculated on the total shipping amount to sellers whose shipping charges are deemed excessive, or to revoke selling privileges of infringing users.

Johan, you have been called out and caught out. The system is already in place to deal with excessive shipping. We, as the collective of sellers, contend and charge that your statement is dishonest, unethical and an insult to our intelligence. You are very well aware that this is nothing more than a money grab by Bid or Buy, who have seen ebay getting away with it for years and so believe that you can get away with ripping us off the same way. There is, however, a massive difference in the base of ebay compared to Bid or Buy, both in seller and buyer base. You will find that we will not bend over and take it up the tailpipe

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DandaShop

Hi all!

I know we all are upset about the new BOB fee structure and it can get very confusing and vague as we don't really know what the final paid amount will be, making it very difficult to calculate the total deductions.

I have created a Fees calculator in Excel(Windows 7) to help simplify the method, using my limited knowledge of Excel formulas. I would really appreciated it if someone wiht advanced knowledge of Excel can check my calculator and suggest improvements or point out errors.

I'm sure we all can use this if it is set up correctly. 

Link to Keep&Share website: bob-fees-calculator-2018-xlsx

OneDrive link(download the file to use it) : https://1drv.ms/x/s!AnSjj4853ORQaQ5ItedM4qXUEGQ

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DandaShop

Although I am pro-category commission structures, I feel the jump in fees are just too high and we should be charged on the sale fee alone, not on the total paid amount as well. I will really have to consider if selling on BOB is still worth it and if I should rather focus on other seller platforms like Takealot. 

I also offer 3rd party sellers to sell on my website and I push this to BOB but it's not viable anymore with this new fee structure. I will be discussing this with our sellers and look at removing their listings from BOB. BidorBuy makes more money from my 3rd party sales than I do so this will be the end of that for me. 

@Bidorbuy: you guys really need to start talking to your sellers and clarify this matter urgently. We as sellers are not happy with this new Fees structure and you will cause huge damage to not only us, but yourself. 

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mrmouse

no problem with it ,will weed out the ripoff sellers hopefully,makes good business sense , if you dont understand economics , it will be a problem.

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