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The Watch World

Clarification required from BoB regarding the ludicrous new fee structure

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The Watch World

Am I the only one that thinks Bidorbuy's new fee structure is ludicrous? My selling expenses will now go up by more that 250%, on what planet is 250% a normal price increase for any business in any industry? Surely we as sellers can get together and put some pressure on them to reassess this?

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Serthentia Sales

Agreed 100%. It is ludicrous. Looks like BoB have started down the path to becoming FeeBay (eBay's more accurate name).

All sellers who are unhappy and appalled by this ludicrous price increase voice yourselves here. It  is time to take a stand. Together we can make the changes that benefit US for a change

Edited by Serthentia Sales

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Serthentia Sales

Good Day.

Putting aside the ludicrous rise in fees that I am sure is going to infuriate all of BoB's sellers and lose BoB many many sellers who bring in the money for them, clarification is required for a specific clause in the fee article;

 

Final order value fee. 

The final order value fee is the fee adjustment that is charged to a seller account, calculated on the difference between the "Final order value" and the "Item sales value", multiplied by the lowest category success fee percentage, which is currently 5.75% excluding VAT.

Examples:

  1. The item sales value is R1,000 for an item sold in the Music & Instruments category. 
     
    • Music & Instruments success fee is 5.75% of R1,000. 
      Success fee = R57.50 + 14% VAT = R65.55 incl. VAT.
    • The buyer makes a payment that totals R1,120.
      The 5.75% final order value fee is applied to R120 (the difference between the sales amount of R1,000 and the total amount paid of R1,120). 
      Final order value fee = R6.90 + 14% VAT = R7.87
    • Total fees paid to bidorbuy on the final order amount of R1,120 = R65.55 + R7.87 = R73.42 incl. VAT 

 

 

Now, from how I read this (and I must wonder if this is very vague on purpose), is that the "difference between the "Final order value" and the "Item sales value" is actually the shipping cost for the order. In the above example, the item sale value is R1000 and the buyer has paid R1120, meaning the extra R120 is the cost of the shipping for the item.

It is not very clear to be honest, but if the above assumption is correct, I assume again that the sellers will be able to include the "fee" that is charged on the shipping amount to their shipping expenses? Sellers may charge the cost of shipping according to BoB policy, and if the shipping fee is being taxed (which basically is what this is, a new tax, as if our government doesn't screw us enough with taxes already), that tax is part of the shipping expense. Or does BoB want us sellers to lose even more money by making a loss on the shipping because some of the shipping fee is now going to BoB's greedy coffers (this is on top of the huge extra amount we will already be losing with the luidicrous increase in fees).

This is fast going to become unsutainable to the majority of BoB sellers who already operate on very low profit margins. But BoB needs to remember, if you put us out of business with ridiculous price increases, who do you think will follow us into bankruptcy? BoB themselves will follow. Without sellers BoB will vanish into the past. Very sad that the greed has come to this. I think it may be time for a tech-savvy  member of the BoB community to program a competitor auction site for all us hard working sellers to come to when we can no longer sustain these inflated fees

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The Watch World

AGREED!!!

This increase is insane, I'll be paying a 250% increase on my fees, which destroys my margin. What kind of business does that to its customers?

On top of this, it seems they have also snuck in extra fees for ALL the payment options, which are now compulsory for all sellers. Quoted from the bottom of their price increase notice:

Payment Fees

Payment options are subject to the following non-refundable processing fees:

  • bobPay credit card : 5%
  • Discovery Miles: 5%
  • Bitcoin: 2.28%
  • Mobicred: 3.42%
  • Snapscan: 3.5%
  • SCode: 3.99%
Edited by The Watch World

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Allstar

For some categories the fees have more than doubled when everything has been tallied up, that's not inflation that's just crazy!!

Final order value fees is some new fee charged on anything over and above the winning bid or item selling price, so that means they are charging sellers a fee of 5.7% on shipping and any other expenses they incur and charge the buyer for.

Really sneaky of Bidorbuy to quote all the new fee rates excluding vat, do they assume no one will notice or that we enjoy doing sums in our head??

I thought by law all prices must be quoted incl vat?

The most expensive category is now 8.75% ex VAT, vat is unfortunately not a choice so yes the new fee is actually 9.97% + add the new final order value fees

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Allstar

Would be nice if there was better value offered to sellers for the hectically inflated fees but probably not, :( just a kick in nutsack

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Serthentia Sales
2 minutes ago, Allstar said:

For some categories the fees have more than doubled when everything has been tallied up, that's not inflation that's just crazy!!

Final order value fees is some new fee charged on anything over and above the winning bid or item selling price, so that means they are charging sellers a fee of 5.7% on shipping and any other expenses they incur and charge the buyer for.

Really sneaky of Bidorbuy to quote all the new fee rates excluding vat, do they assume no one will notice or that we enjoy doing sums in our head??

I thought by law all prices must be quoted incl vat?

The most expensive category is now 8.75% ex VAT, vat is unfortunately not a choice so yes the new fee is actually 9.97% + add the new final order value fees

Agreed, it is ludicrous and is going to run the majority of sellers on BoB out of business. All fellow sellers, PLEASE USE YOUR VOICE HERE, SHARE YOUR OPINIONS AND LET US STAND TOGETHER AGAINST THIS GREED BY BID OR BUY. TOGETHER WE CAN WIN IN THIS FIGHT AGAINST THE GREED IN BOB'S RANKS AND STOP OUR BELOVED BID OR BUY FROM TURNING INTO FEEBAY!!!

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Serthentia Sales

Agreed. We already lose thousands of rands on premium listing fees due to non-payers who BoB does not really do anything about until they have already screwed over double digit amounts of sellers. Money that BoB refuses to refund because "we got the exposure paid for". What good is exposure when the sale is not completed, and we have to take the loss of that money right up the behind without getting paid for the sale. Now they want to take the rest of the small profits we do get from out hard work. #NO_TO_FEEBAY #SELLERS_MATTER

Edited by Serthentia Sales

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RiverValleyTrading

Very complicated formula now. 

Can Bidorbuy give sellers a better undestanding of strategies to find the right balalnce between items pricing and fees? 

For example: 

What is the idea behind the final order fee? Do they want more sellers to offer Free shipping? 

Also, Can Bob help us try to understand the idea behind the restructure? 

Eg. 

As I understand it, With the new listing fees for Cellphone items, most cheap items (small cellphone connectors / cables) won't be worth selling any more. That's the kind of stuff I love to find on Bob

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Serthentia Sales

I see that Bid or Buy admins have been online and seen the topics (as they have merged the two topics together) but do not even bother to offer a response.

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admin
2 minutes ago, Serthentia Sales said:

I see that Bid or Buy admins have been online and seen the topics (as they have merged the two topics together) but do not even bother to offer a response.

Hi Serthentia Sales,

Unfortunately I do not have any input on this (not something I have a say in), hence the no reply. Please stick to posting in the current thread and do not open new threads in other categories about the same issue.

Thank you for your understanding.

Kind regards

Andries

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Serthentia Sales

Hi Andries.

Thank you. Please inform the people who do have a say in this (the ones who have decided to implement this robbery of us hard working sellers) that we would like an in depth response on this thread before the close of business tomorrow.

 

With these new ludicrous price increases, the following will need to happen:

1. Sellers will need to drastically increase the price of BUY NOW items and the starting/reserve prices of auctions to compensate for BoB's greed and keep turning a profit.

2. The above will chase away alot of buyers as the prices will no longer be such good bargains anymore.

3. This will cause sellers to stop selling on bid or buy, as the lower volume of sales, mixed with the even lower profit margins, it will no longer be productive to spend the time and effort to list our items on BoB.

The above does not even take into consideration the R1 crazy auctions, which will no longer be even worth listing in at all for the majority of sellers who list lower valued items for sale in these auctions. These are what bring in the most sales on Bid or Buy by a long way, as buyers get good deals. But as sellers we will no longer be able to list these good deals in the R1 auctions as it will not be even remotely financially feasable.

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Vegar

I would really like to hear the rationale behind the decision to charge a percentage on the shipping fee from THE BIDORBUY TEAM. For sellers who keep the shipping cost to a minimum this is a slap in the face. I send all packages insured at 3% so BoB is taking a cut on that service as well. It means I will have to increase the shipping cost in order to pay the extra fee and BoB will then get a bigger fee on the shipping which means that the cost will either be absorbed by the seller or charged to the buyer. CRAZY!!

Just please explain how this makes sense, I quote: " We believe that the new fee structure, which includes all payment options, will lead to a significantly improved and more consistent user experience for all users."

 

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

There is no innovation in any company in SA anymore.

As soon as extra profits are required,up goes the fees or charges ala state owned enterprises

There is no consultation,no research and tapping into any of the thoughts of some of the sellers that have been on BOB a long time.

My personal experience and understanding is that LISTING FEES AND ENHANCEMENTS possibly generate more income for bob than success fees,(my own assumption )so why target the success fees??

Would it not be  feasible to try and generate more income from listing fees?That then puts the decision back into the seller as to what he wishes to list and spend on listings fees.

If bob allowed 500 free listings per seller per month (either auction or buy now)and charged a nominal fee on on normal listings above that, then they would generate more income than the raising of success fees,also it would stop the endless listing of items just for the sake of listing and because its free.

Sellers would then be more careful what to list,as they paying for it,it would declutter the site and make searches easier and better quailty of items will be more readily seen.

Promotional auctions status quo will remain the same,perhaps some incentive free adverts to top sellers to attract the better items back onto the promotional auctions.

Also allow price setting on maybe one crazy wed auction a month, so sellers wont risk giving away items for no return,but get the exposure at a price they want and bob will still get the listing fees,and likely make more this way than the commission on sales lost on a few of the items priced above R1 and not sold.

The shipping fees are not recommended to be included,this will lead to higher shipping fees as sellers will build this in to compensate for the commission charged.

It will escalate into a vicious cycle with no end in sight .as per ebay!!

FINALLY,the way the fees are presented with no definite clarity is devious and devoid of ethical business practise,hidden costs,not explained properly,not expected from a highly  regarded selling platform.

neil

Edited by ATA STAMP CENTRE

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Allstar

With such a big leap in fees and now fees on the shipping amount and no updated value offering I can only assume the increase is motivated by greed/profit.

This is a more accurate and correct reading of their press release :  "We believe that the new fee structure, which includes all payment options, will lead to significantly improved income and more profits for Bidorbuy"

There is no benefit to this fee increase for the users of Bidorbuy, unless increased poverty is a bonus no ones appreciating??!

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ATA STAMP CENTRE

Why the various rates for success fees?

Penalising most of BOB sellers is unfair ,a flat rate across all categories would allow for a small increase in all categories and surely generate the same extra profit BOB is looking for,protecting the main income generating categories will inevitably result in many smaller players of interesting categories falling by the wayside and these other categories bring maybe more traffic to the site where the top categories can pick up extra sales,to lose this traffic makes no sense in the long run.

Many of the categories with huge increases in success fees are already under pressure from the buyers dwindling disposable income and this is going to make it tough to be profitable.

I would be very interested to know if the success fees generate more income for BOB or if listing fees and enhancements generate more income,but i doubt if BOB would be transparent enough to divulge this information or if they even did look at this.

I STILL maintain that BOB should look at the listing fee structure and easily generate the extra profit they want from this source.

But then again all the free listings make the serious sellers having to pay enhancement fees so they get the exposure for there items.

WE dont seem able to win any which way!!

neil

 

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HookedOnTrains

I agree fully - will not be selling on BidOrBuy again if these fees remain. In a time where everything is already so darn expensive and rising each day, this is just not acceptable. Obviously the rich want to get richer!!

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Serthentia Sales
15 minutes ago, HookedOnTrains said:

I agree fully - will not be selling on BidOrBuy again if these fees remain. In a time where everything is already so darn expensive and rising each day, this is just not acceptable. Obviously the rich want to get richer!!

Exactly. Bid or Buy's CEO wants a new solid gold, diamond encrusted toilet in which to flush down what remains of Bid or Buy's business ethics

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Seeds for Africa

Bidorbuy. Please can you clarify the justification for the increase. Your statement that "We believe that the new fee structure, which includes all payment options, will lead to a significantly improved and more consistent user experience for all users." sounds like it was written by a PR company and does not in any way justify the crazy 100% plus increase in fees. My fees based on January's figures would have increased by 109% (That's after deducting the payment processing fees which I understand will now be included as part of the success fee).

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Little Miss Muffet

The difference between 5,75% and 8,75 % for the various categories seems unfair but then certain categories have a listing fee.

I have always considered Bidorbuy's fees , which has never increased ,too reasonable

I sell new jewellery on Takealot who  charge 15%.Their fees for various categories also varies.

Sellers who have been on Bidorbuy for a number of years have built up a clientele and Bidorbuy may find they will try and bypass the fees.I am sure some users already do this

I know I could phone some buyers and offer them certain collectors items in order to bypass the fees.It is not something I ever do, or intend doing, but it could encourage this practice.

The cash deposit fee is going to be shouldered by the seller and I would like to know whether we can charge the cash fee to the buyer.

Overall I think Bidorbuy should probably have increased their commission long ago but this is a big jump especially adding vat

Edited by Little Miss Muffet

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Asha Craft

I have not posted here in years, and felt the need to login today to voice my anger and frustration at this unfair increase, which is exactly what it is. On the 5.75% PLUS 14% VAT that we pay EXTRA on the "Final order value" aka shipping, means I have to pay Bidorbuy R33250.00 per year just for offering a shipping method!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nevermind the fact that I am basically penalised for selling jewellery because it is 8.75%, and the lowest category is 5.75%

Keep the category increase, drop the 14% VAT and drop the Final order value. Charging me 5.75% plus 14% VAT on the shipping amount is bloody ridiculous.

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Asha Craft

Oh and it works out that my fees will increase by 115%  :40_rage::40_rage::40_rage:

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anthony03

Do you think Bid or Buy is in financial difficulties? Their  budget obviously has been drastically reduced in respect of advertising. This latest action is probably going to damage them beyond repair as well as the PR company who is trying to sell this confusing and totally ridiculous  new "rip off the sellers" bag of tricks. Have the balls to take your roadshow out to the sellers in various centers around the country ( like EBAY does) then you will get an idea of the backlash  you have  started. I for one, will leave Bid or Buy if this new system comes into being. This will include buying and selling. Your decision!  

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Best Bargains For All

All I can say is that this is absolute daylight robbery. Listen to your sellers BidorBuy, or you are going to run both us and yourselves out of business. No one will win in the end with a price increase which is akin to absolute theft

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Little Miss Muffet

Have Bidorbuy being paying vat on commission all these years ? If so their commission 5% on R1000 = R50 less 14% R7 = R43 -not much considering the nonsense they sometimes have to put up with.

It seems Bidorbuy have gone from reasonable to unreasonable like some users on Bob:SO.o

Even if fees increased by 1% users will complain. Maybe they are giving us shock treatment to prepare us for something more reasonable

Edited by Little Miss Muffet

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