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Little voice warning me about seller shooters

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qball

I am part of the bidorbuy team, but please understand we cannot interfere and shouldn't even be making contact whilst there is a criminal case going on. All communication should go through the IO.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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prilene kistnasami

Gosh what to do next ????

any suggestions ppl ??? , these ppl will enjoy christmas with our money. No fair :-(,

 

I do hope these guys are not allowed to leave the country !

 

After i read somewhere on this forum they paid R30 000 in advance for a holiday ????

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prilene kistnasami

Originally Posted by n_gerhardt viewpost.gif

Kit W wrote....

 

 

:mad:

 

We have lost a lot of money and I welcome Dave to ask questions and BOB to respond. Why didnt we heard from the beginning what was going on regarding payment.

 

It is strange that you can't get hold of them, they answer the phone and they read their e-mails.

 

I spoke to Sakkie yesterday and its clear they made huge mistakes and that their operating procedure was doomed the day money started to flow in. It became to easy and the fact that they are young as he claims doesnt justify their intentions. They couldnt see the approaching danger and even payed for a R30000-00 holiday in advanced.

 

The main question still remains, what happened to the R1.2 million???

 

He also indicated that he ask BOB if he could come and state his case here but they were banned and he cant lock in. If it is the truth then I would like to see him answering a few questions. Make no mistake, they read what was said here and he confirmed this.

 

There is a lot of BS stories going around. Lets be honest, we will probibly loose our money, or most of it, but I still feel this could have been prevented or picked up earlier. There must be better measures to protect buyers and also sellers.

 

How young are these criminals that ripped us off ? does anyone know ?

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Vagito

i managed to call their 87 number and a seemingly young lady picked up. she said that both Sakkie and Lizelle were away (i cant recall where, it was an international call so one must hurry...) and would be back to business by the 5th of January.

 

according to her, all those who laid charges would have their cases solved in court and those who havent should contact them from the 5th for their goods or refund...

 

lets see what happens on this episode of this saga...

 

will i give them the benefit of the doubt? only time will tell...

 

P.S: i think BoB has not made any effort to contact them.

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stranger82
I realise that many of you want to blame bidorbuy, and we understand this. Let's try work together instead of arguing about why the seller paid their fees for November/October, we are not disputing this fact.

 

Yes, there can always be ways to try ensure this does not happen again, however, I will use the recent case with eBay as an example. The seller's were caught for running a scam with counterfeit golf clubs and balls, for a 5 year period, buyers losing millions of Pounds. The sellers created numerous accounts and could not be stopped for a period of about 5 years. There is nothing we can do to 100% guarantee the safety of any buyer OR seller. Even with eBays systems, they only picked this up when a pensioner reported it to a consumer watchdog, who also started to investigate and obviously alerted eBay to it.

 

We realise a lot of money is at stake here, if you want to blame bidorbuy, please feel free to. Looking at the facts and information at the time, there was no way to predict the seller's behaviour. Our mistake was to trust the seller and give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Whether the seller paid their fees is not the primary issue here, it simply is an attempt to divert the attention away from what we all should be concentrating on - getting justice served, and hopefully refunds for all concerned.

 

Thank you to all who have added constructive posts to this thread, once again, we appreciate your patience and understanding in this matter.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

 

 

Hi Cuan,

 

Thanks for the deep insight into the eBay case. However, let me point out the improvements that have followed the same both at eBay and Amazon (world's top selling internet sites).

 

eBay has liaised with the payment gateway paypal (paisapay in India and other similar gateways elsewhere). Afaik the money gets deposited into the paypal account when the buyer makes a purchase on the site. The money only gets released to the seller after he has confirmed the delivery details to eBay. In case the buyer does not get the item within the specified period (or receives a defective item), the refund is guaranteed by Paypal (upto $2,000).

 

At Amazon, in case of third party dealers, it goes a step ahead and the entire amount is refunded automatically to the buyer if the seller fails to provide proof of shipment to Amazon within a specified period. The seller, in this case has to plead his case with the buyer if he wants to get the payment. (as he should, since he did not deliver goods in time)

 

The moral of the story in both cases being that the transaction is guaranteed by the site, and seller is reprimanded for his laziness and lack of professional approach towards the transaction.

 

While I understand that it is not possible for a payment gateway like paypal to operate in South Africa owing to the SARB regulation, I believe it is not impossible for BOB to set up a system which is similar to the ones mentioned above.

 

Such an innovation is sure to reduce the possibility of scams like this in future (I agree its not possible to make a foolproof system, but we must try and make it as secure as possible), and inspire confidence in buyers. As a user who has been robbed of a lot of money this time, I would much prefer if BOB takes steps to ensure that it does not happen again, rather than apologising and justifying its prior stance. What is done is done, and I don't see a lot of chances that I am gonna get my money back...so better prepare for the future and ensure the chances of this happening again are reduced as far as possible

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lilythepink

Vagito wrote: P.S: i think BoB has not made any effort to contact them.

 

Sorry, Vagito, but Bid or Buy have been very active about trying to get things sorted out. Perhaps if you read all these posts from the very first post on page 1, you will see what I mean?

 

I know that buyers have been tremendously disappointed with the situation, but please don't blame BoB. (I don't know if any BoB admin people are psychic!?) lol

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qball
Hi Cuan,

 

Thanks for the deep insight into the eBay case. However, let me point out the improvements that have followed the same both at eBay and Amazon (world's top selling internet sites).

 

eBay has liaised with the payment gateway paypal (paisapay in India and other similar gateways elsewhere). Afaik the money gets deposited into the paypal account when the buyer makes a purchase on the site. The money only gets released to the seller after he has confirmed the delivery details to eBay. In case the buyer does not get the item within the specified period (or receives a defective item), the refund is guaranteed by Paypal (upto $2,000).

 

At Amazon, in case of third party dealers, it goes a step ahead and the entire amount is refunded automatically to the buyer if the seller fails to provide proof of shipment to Amazon within a specified period. The seller, in this case has to plead his case with the buyer if he wants to get the payment. (as he should, since he did not deliver goods in time)

 

The moral of the story in both cases being that the transaction is guaranteed by the site, and seller is reprimanded for his laziness and lack of professional approach towards the transaction.

 

While I understand that it is not possible for a payment gateway like paypal to operate in South Africa owing to the SARB regulation, I believe it is not impossible for BOB to set up a system which is similar to the ones mentioned above.

 

Such an innovation is sure to reduce the possibility of scams like this in future (I agree its not possible to make a foolproof system, but we must try and make it as secure as possible), and inspire confidence in buyers. As a user who has been robbed of a lot of money this time, I would much prefer if BOB takes steps to ensure that it does not happen again, rather than apologising and justifying its prior stance. What is done is done, and I don't see a lot of chances that I am gonna get my money back...so better prepare for the future and ensure the chances of this happening again are reduced as far as possible

 

Thank you for your suggestions, you certainly make some valid points. Setting up something like paypal from scratch is incredibly difficult, from a legal, cost and technical point of view, we simply do not have these resources available to us. Ebay purchased paypal which was already a going concern, so very little had to be done to integrate it into their business. We would need not only Reserve bank approval, we would probably need to be registered as a bank (you are required to have millions in reserve to cover any losses) and financial Services provider, we certainly do not have the resources of say a JP Morgan bank, with billions of dollars in their accounts to cover any losses.

 

Although there are benefits of a paypal type system, may I suggest you research the downsides of such a system, they do not provide adequate protection (if you read the fine print of their TOS). At the end of the day, they do not prevent scams to the extent that they claim. Ebay also lost thousands of customers as soon as they forced them to only accept paypal as their payment method. This backfired to such an extent that they soon allowed sellers to offer other payment methods. The other issue is the cost of using paypal, it is a well known fact that paypal fees are actually quite high, and many sellers will not use it simply for this reason. We feel the same would apply here, we do not waht to force people to use something they don't want to. Yes, granted, it may help reduce fraud, but it will not eliminate it.

 

We already offer bobPay credit card and EFT, however, this service does not provide 100% protection (nor do we guarantee that it will stop fraud, but it has been fairly effective in this regard so far) - many sellers will not use it due to the costs, although at this stage bobPay EFT is still free to use. We also do not want to force people to use it as past experience has shown us that this will lead to many seller's leaving the site (ulitmately, without sellers advertising their goods, there will be no buyers, and vice versa). As a standard security precaution we may request "FICA" type documentation from the seller, if the payout amount is over a certain value, however, this still does not guarantee that you will receive the item. It may not answer all the immediate needs, but it is a start. Again, it is not a paypal type system, it does not offer any guarantees, but it has already helped to reduce fraud.

 

It is a real pity that such a few cause such a lot of trouble for all concerned. The site is based on trust, they have abused this trust and as a result have left you, the buyer, and bidorbuy with the problems. We agree there can always be improvements, but what everyone must take into consideration is that it's not as easy as everyone makes it out to be. Buyers should also take steps to protect themselves when transacting online, the online ecommerce model works when used honestly and legitimately, but there are still unscrupulous and deceitful people who will always try spoil that.

 

Thank you again for your feedback in this regard.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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qball
i managed to call their 87 number and a seemingly young lady picked up. she said that both Sakkie and Lizelle were away (i cant recall where, it was an international call so one must hurry...) and would be back to business by the 5th of January.

 

according to her, all those who laid charges would have their cases solved in court and those who havent should contact them from the 5th for their goods or refund...

 

lets see what happens on this episode of this saga...

 

will i give them the benefit of the doubt? only time will tell...

 

P.S: i think BoB has not made any effort to contact them.

 

We cannot get involved in contacting them until this case is sorted out, please see my previous post.

 

My question is, they will sort out people who haven't laid charges against them, but then will inconvenience the one's who have opened cases (from Feb 2010 onwards)???? Does not make sense, why can't they sort everyone out at the same time... again, these people have abused the trust you have placed in them and have avoided making contact with you and have given you excuse after excuse and promise after promise... ? Many buyers opened cases against them, these should be the first people they sort out, particularly those with transactions dating back to Oct/Nov.

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lilythepink

How sure are we that that is the only bank account the scoundrels have? Do we know for sure that ALL their illegal gains are "frozen"?:(

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qball

If they are willing to refund people, why can't the account be unfrozen now? If they are willing to co-operate now, I am sure they can contact the authorities through their attorney's to get the accounts unfrozen...

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lilythepink

Hi qball - it's not that easy to have an account "unfrozen". The Forfeiture Assets unit would have to be involved, etc. etc. (at least that's my understanding of the law). It's also very possible that ALL their assets will be frozen (including the car that - I think Sakkie - was going to sell). Any disposable assets sold within a certain timeframe of their arrest could well be recalled and the buyers could lose their money and the so-called asset. So, don't buy a car from them whatever you do! (We need a High Court Judge on this Forum!) ;)

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qball

Thank you for that insight...

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SA picker

Hope the shooters gang had a good chrismas and a justfull (justice served) New year.

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LDT33

My Question

 

I read the latest posts this morning and I'm with Gerhard; it still hurts like hell! I'm not quite sure why people who are still posting in this thread if they were not affected by this???

 

Bid or Buy was created for online trading and auctions so if you bid on an item from someone with 97% positive ratings, over 400 items sold then you buy with confidence. What happend with shooters hurt the ones that got scammed very much so please, if you are not one of the people who got scammed, keep your comments to yourself.

 

Admin, in your previous posts you said you'll ban people from the forum if they posted here and was not affected by the shooters scam so please do so.

 

Thanks very much.

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qball

Comments from users not affected by this incident will be removed as already stated earlier.

 

Thank you

Cuan

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LDT33
Comments from users not affected by this incident will be removed as already stated earlier.

 

Thank you

Cuan

 

Thanks very much Cuan.

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Romanza
i managed to call their 87 number and a seemingly young lady picked up. she said that both Sakkie and Lizelle were away (i cant recall where, it was an international call so one must hurry...) and would be back to business by the 5th of January.

 

according to her, all those who laid charges would have their cases solved in court and those who havent should contact them from the 5th for their goods or refund...

 

lets see what happens on this episode of this saga...

 

will i give them the benefit of the doubt? only time will tell...

 

P.S: i think BoB has not made any effort to contact them.

 

 

It is the 5th today, let's see if this will materialize

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prilene kistnasami

phoned, cornella answered the phone, she passed the phone on too sakkie her husband, he said he is opening his business again on the 11th jan. He can not refund any money now until the case is closed. Once his case is closed, he said his bank account will get un-frozen. so we must wait. but , but he said if he makes any money before then he will refund ppl.

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Waylander66

Criminal Case Opened against Shooters

 

Hi Guys,

 

I have opened a case against shooters but the officer did not allow me to specify details on the affadavit as she says all the facts have been provided on my statement when I opened the case so putting all this in an affadavit would be duplication.

 

I emailed Morne but he did not reply.

 

case number - CAS 2345/12/2009

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Vagito
It is the 5th today, let's see if this will materialize

 

it didn materialize. he said that the factory only opens on the 11th and till then he cant do a thing. meanwhile i was asked for all my details etc and was told that my item (tht 6100 ht) could still be available on or before the 11th.

 

is this 4 real or just time buying? after the 11th im taking serious and dramatic action.

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qball
Hi Guys,

 

I have opened a case against shooters but the officer did not allow me to specify details on the affadavit as she says all the facts have been provided on my statement when I opened the case so putting all this in an affadavit would be duplication.

 

I emailed Morne but he did not reply.

 

case number - CAS 2345/12/2009

 

Please kindly see email sent to you a short while ago.

 

Thank you

Cuan

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thabotshabalala

Shooters

 

Now that we've all opened cases.. How is the refunding or delivery of items going to work?? In what order do we get refunded? Is there an absolute list of the people Lizelle from Shooters is supposed to reimburse? And does anyone know the amount in total that she owes people..

 

P.S, whats the next step to take after opening a case?

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Waylander66

Refund on the cards or not!!!

 

I really do hope that they genuinely intend on reimbursing us. If not then we must all make sure that they get prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

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stranger82

Guys.....any updates???? 11 Jan is now in history....can we expect items to be delivered or money to be refunded??????

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Waylander66

Feedback

 

Yes, Feedback from anyone would be much appreciated. I hate being in the dark here.

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