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BumbleBee

Little voice warning me about seller shooters

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Dave96

Pathetic......

 

........Kit W....another seller, thinking about the implications to his own pocket, and OBVIOUSLY not one of the people who got scammed!!! Just for your info.....when I said goodbye, it was in terms of future purchases in BoB....being one of the scammed, I still have a vested interest in the outcome of this saga!

 

Now, back to our discussion......2. Regarding the claims that money from the sale of these items were paid to bidorbuy is completely untrue, bidorbuy did not receive any funds from the sale of these items and the seller did not pay the money to bidorbuy. Buyers made payment directly into the seller's account.

 

3. As of the 7th of December, bidorbuy has not managed to recover any fees owed by the seller, amounting to thousands of Rands (it most definitely is not in the region of R120 000 or R60 000 as claimed by some people on myBB).

 

Am I to understand that your choice of words was not entirely accurate??

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qball

Again Dave, this is your opinion, if you want to read into it, that is your choice. Not all items sold in November attracted a 4% success fee. Many items were still delivered and or refunds issued. We cannot account for users who have not rated, but they would have been emailed twice in the last 2 weeks to contact us if they had not received their items. There is no way to determine who has paid and who hasn't paid as we do not have access to the buyer's bank account records or the seller's account. The total fees owed to us does not exceed at most R25 000, including the R21500 paid already, this amount definitely includes successfully completed sales. Also taking into consideration that some buyers did not pay at all...

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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qball
........Kit W....another seller, thinking about the implications to his own pocket, and OBVIOUSLY not one of the people who got scammed!!! Just for your info.....when I said goodbye, it was in terms of future purchases in BoB....being one of the scammed, I still have a vested interest in the outcome of this saga!

 

Now, back to our discussion......2. Regarding the claims that money from the sale of these items were paid to bidorbuy is completely untrue, bidorbuy did not receive any funds from the sale of these items and the seller did not pay the money to bidorbuy. Buyers made payment directly into the seller's account.

 

3. As of the 7th of December, bidorbuy has not managed to recover any fees owed by the seller, amounting to thousands of Rands (it most definitely is not in the region of R120 000 or R60 000 as claimed by some people on myBB).

 

Am I to understand that your choice of words was not entirely accurate??

 

 

1. There was a newspaper article claiming that the sale proceeds were paid to bidorbuy. The is a difference between fees owed by the seller being paid and buyer's funds paid for goods sold by the seller. No buyer paid money to bidorbuy. The seller is making it out that the money for all the goods they sold was paid to bidorbuy, this is not correct. The seller paid an outstanding amount for fees owed.

 

2. As of the 7th December NO money was received.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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Dave96

Semantics........

 

1) No reference was made in your posting that you were addressing irregularities in newspaper reports.

2) The terms "monies" or "fees" as loosely used by yourself could be construed to include sellers commission.

3) You are denying what you have already admitted....you claim that no payments were made by Shooters up and until 7th December, when in fact you have already admitted receiving payment of R21500.00, of which I have documentary evidence.

 

But in any case, for those of us who are adept at reading between the lines of your responses.......we know the truth now!

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SA picker

Kit W wrote....

I thought Dave had said his final GOODBYE - now you are back again!!!

 

:mad:

 

We have lost a lot of money and I welcome Dave to ask questions and BOB to respond. Why didnt we heard from the beginning what was going on regarding payment.

 

It is strange that you can't get hold of them, they answer the phone and they read their e-mails.

 

I spoke to Sakkie yesterday and its clear they made huge mistakes and that their operating procedure was doomed the day money started to flow in. It became to easy and the fact that they are young as he claims doesnt justify their intentions. They couldnt see the approaching danger and even payed for a R30000-00 holiday in advanced.

 

The main question still remains, what happened to the R1.2 million???

 

He also indicated that he ask BOB if he could come and state his case here but they were banned and he cant lock in. If it is the truth then I would like to see him answering a few questions. Make no mistake, they read what was said here and he confirmed this.

 

There is a lot of BS stories going around. Lets be honest, we will probibly loose our money, or most of it, but I still feel this could have been prevented or picked up earlier. There must be better measures to protect buyers and also sellers.

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BumbleBee
Kit W wrote....

 

It is strange that you can't get hold of them, they answer the phone and they read their e-mails.

 

 

They may read their mails but they certainly don't reply :mad:

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qball
1) No reference was made in your posting that you were addressing irregularities in newspaper reports.

2) The terms "monies" or "fees" as loosely used by yourself could be construed to include sellers commission.

3) You are denying what you have already admitted....you claim that no payments were made by Shooters up and until 7th December, when in fact you have already admitted receiving payment of R21500.00, of which I have documentary evidence.

 

But in any case, for those of us who are adept at reading between the lines of your responses.......we know the truth now!

 

From the time I started posting about this, it has always been in context of the newspaper report that was inaccurate. I am sorry if this was not clear to you. Some people have used this to mould and twist into their own interpretation of events and have based these on largely guesses and speculation. There needs to be a distinct division between monies paid by buyers to the seller directly and fees paid to bidorbuy by the seller.

 

Regarding the funds/monies paid, yes it can be construed as meaning commission, but in the context of the erroneous newspaper report, it was relating to the seller depositing money into bidorbuy's account for all the transactions concluded (buyers' money being paid directly to bidorbuy), which simply put is not true.

 

The payment received on the 2nd was discussed at least a week prior to all this happening, and was thus considered a legitimate payment for the seller for fees incurred during November and earlier. We run our billing cycle on the 7th, the seller still "owes" us approx. R4000 in fees, for December's transactions, most of which have not been fulfilled. It is pure co-incidence that the funds were paid on the 2nd, that is all there is to it. On the 7th we did not recover any further funds and doubt we will be able to.

 

There is no big "conspiracy" behind any of this I can assure you.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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qball

I realise that many of you want to blame bidorbuy, and we understand this. Let's try work together instead of arguing about why the seller paid their fees for November/October, we are not disputing this fact.

 

Yes, there can always be ways to try ensure this does not happen again, however, I will use the recent case with eBay as an example. The seller's were caught for running a scam with counterfeit golf clubs and balls, for a 5 year period, buyers losing millions of Pounds. The sellers created numerous accounts and could not be stopped for a period of about 5 years. There is nothing we can do to 100% guarantee the safety of any buyer OR seller. Even with eBays systems, they only picked this up when a pensioner reported it to a consumer watchdog, who also started to investigate and obviously alerted eBay to it.

 

We realise a lot of money is at stake here, if you want to blame bidorbuy, please feel free to. Looking at the facts and information at the time, there was no way to predict the seller's behaviour. Our mistake was to trust the seller and give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

Whether the seller paid their fees is not the primary issue here, it simply is an attempt to divert the attention away from what we all should be concentrating on - getting justice served, and hopefully refunds for all concerned.

 

Thank you to all who have added constructive posts to this thread, once again, we appreciate your patience and understanding in this matter.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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gadgets_gems

Hi Cuan,

 

I'm still a bit in the dark as to the way forward. Should we be waiting for the case to be heard in February, or should we be doing something else? Obviously the most people would be happy just to get (most of) their money back - but in order to make this happen - what (from past experience) is the best way to make this happen?

 

Regards,

Coen

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qball

My advice at the moment is to "pester" the investigating officer in Germiston, or the IO handling your case in other centres. Ensure they put pressure on the seller to come forward with a response and/or refund and provide them with as much evidence as possible to strengthen the case against the seller. From past exeprience, the more cases that are opened and the more evidence there is, the quicker the issue will be resolved, this is also dependant on the how vigorously the IO proceeds with the case.

 

If you still haven't sent us your case details and affadavit, please do so, soonest, Morne is busy collating all this documentation and will supply it to the IO as soon as we have everything we need. The police are still busy investigating but the more pressure you put onto them, the quicker it may make the process. At this stage the court date is still the 18th Feb 2010.

 

You could also consider civil action against them to recover the funds.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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Dave96

Definition....

 

On another tangent, Cuan.....what is BoB's definition of a "successfull sell"?

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qball
Kit W wrote....

 

 

:mad:

 

We have lost a lot of money and I welcome Dave to ask questions and BOB to respond. Why didnt we heard from the beginning what was going on regarding payment.

 

It is strange that you can't get hold of them, they answer the phone and they read their e-mails.

 

I spoke to Sakkie yesterday and its clear they made huge mistakes and that their operating procedure was doomed the day money started to flow in. It became to easy and the fact that they are young as he claims doesnt justify their intentions. They couldnt see the approaching danger and even payed for a R30000-00 holiday in advanced.

 

The main question still remains, what happened to the R1.2 million???

 

He also indicated that he ask BOB if he could come and state his case here but they were banned and he cant lock in. If it is the truth then I would like to see him answering a few questions. Make no mistake, they read what was said here and he confirmed this.

 

There is a lot of BS stories going around. Lets be honest, we will probibly loose our money, or most of it, but I still feel this could have been prevented or picked up earlier. There must be better measures to protect buyers and also sellers.

 

I would just like to deny the comments made by Sakkie. Why should we give them an opportunity to state their case? They could have been in touch with us, they could have started refunding buyers, they could have offered explanations and apologies to all those affected a long time ago - an email with a spreadsheet with all their sales for the last 2 or more months was emailed to them on the 10th, including all the buyer details. They have deceived many people. They could quite easily send us a letter or email stating their case and we would publish it, or even better, they could respond to each and every one of you who has been a victim. Sakkie has never been in touch with us, we have dealt with 2 women, one being Lizelle, the other being Cornelia, and one claiming to be Lizelle...

 

Lizelle (I think it was Lizelle), phoned me earlier today after I tried to reach them this morning, she still proclaims innocence in this whole affair, and that Sakkie and Cornelia are the one's behind it (again, this is based on what "Lizelle" has told me). There are too many stories going around... How many stories did they feed buyer's about the robbery, the refunds, empty promises?

 

Regarding this being picked up earlier - we still disagree. The seller had a duty and a responsibility to come clean from day one, they didn't, instead they employed delaying tactics and were not truthful about what had happened (now they are giving you explanations and excuses???). I even received phone calls from 2 different Lizelle's before they were arrested, I can only assume the one was Cornelia... again, I think they got themselves in over their heads. They have no excuse, rather come clean from the start and sort out all the buyers.

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Dave96

The way forward....

 

I have spent enough time and energy on this forum, trying to get my point across. I stand by my various posts....

 

I will be contacting a lawyer next week to set the ball in motion for a civil case for the recovery of money from Lizelle and Friends. If anybody wants to join me in this matter, feel free to pm me with your details.

Please be aware that you do not have to lay a criminal charge (even though this is preferable) in order to pursue the matter through civil litigation.

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qball
On another tangent, Cuan.....what is BoB's definition of a "successfull sell"?

 

A sale processed on the site, as per the system (i.e. a winning bidder on an auction item or a buyer placing an order on the system). Thereafter we have no way of knowing if payment and delivery was made unless we are informed or the feedback left in the ratings confirms this.

 

Just to respond to your comment about us waiting for the fee payment before blacklisting is not true, again, this had nothing to do with what happened on the account or the actions taken at the time, and again, pure co-incidence, even if you do not believe this, and we will continue to state this.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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Dave96

So therefore......

 

.....Cuan, your response regarding my question supports my argument that BoB places more emphasis on the selling aspect (because that is where their revenue is generated) than on the buyer. I know you will be inclined to disagree with me....but think logically....

 

You are saying that a "successful sell" is only limited to a buyer placing a winning bid and confirming the order online (for auctions), or placing an order for an item (buy only).

 

On this limited information, which you regard as a "successful sell", you require a "Success fee" from the seller, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER THE GOODS WERE SENT AND RECEIVED AS PER THE ORDER!

 

Surely, logic would dictate that a "successful sell" would include all aspects of the transaction, from the confirmation of the sale online by the buyer, the transfer of funds, the postage/delivery/collection of the items, and the receipt of said items! Only when ALL of these requirements have been met, and the buyer has expressed their satisfaction with the transaction in some form of communication, can it be regarded as a "successful sell".

 

In the real world out there, Sales Rep's do not get paid commission on orders taken, but on orders executed, including delivery and payment!

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qball

Hi Dave

 

Under different circumstances, say for instance the seller had no ratings, we may have blacklisted the account immediately, thus protecting the buyers instantaneously, however, at the time this started their was no indication that fraud took place, this was purely hearsay. The seller had been in contact with us during this time and had been assuring us and many buyers that they would resolve the problem and their overall rating score was still good. As soon as we could see that things were not going to be resolved and they started avoiding people and us, we took the necessary action to blacklist the account. If you feel this was favouring the seller, so be it, nothing I say or do is going to change your perception and beliefs, all I can do is tell you like it is...

 

A sale resulted out of the use of the site by a buyer and seller on the site - this is when we charge the success fee, that is the way the system is designed, and most sites have this type of system in place. As we are generally not involved in the after sales process we do not know at which stage delivery, payment or communication took place, unless informed otherwise.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

 

We constantly get criticised by buyers and sellers alike, that we are often too strict, too harsh when dealing with suspect sellers or buyers, there was simply no way to predict that this would be the outcome. We simply cannot win.

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prilene kistnasami

QUOTE FROM QBALL:

Lizelle (I think it was Lizelle), phoned me earlier today after I tried to reach them this morning, she still proclaims innocence in this whole affair, and that Sakkie and Cornelia are the one's behind it (again, this is based on what "Lizelle" has told me). There are too many stories going around... How many stories did they feed buyer's about the robbery, the refunds, empty promises?

 

 

How come "QBALL" cud get in touch with sakkie yesterday and lizelle today. But BOB team fails to do so ????? Are they even trying too get intouch with them ?

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qball

We have not spoken to Sakkie and I did not speak to him at all yesterday, I am not sure where you are getting this information from? (are you referring to the post from n_gerhardt?). I tried contacting Lizelle on all the numbers supplied to us, and she phoned me back after I left a message, however, it seems Cornelia and Sakkie are the one's to deal with, but again, it is very difficult for us to intervene as there is a criminal investigation going on. Lizelle could not give us any useful information and claims she is not involved.

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prilene kistnasami

its seems like sakkie, cornelia and lizelle are playing the blaming game now ????

 

Its such a pity we have to wait till feb to now whats the outcome, then has the law goes, come feb 2010, case will get posponed to another date or so forth, this has happend numerous times,

 

So confused ????

 

I honestly feel if lizelle or sakkie wanted to get incontact with us, they cud have done so by emailing each one of us. BUt yet they want to plead they case on bob, but because they banned they cant do so. We heard enough....all we want is our money back !!!

 

these excuses excuses, and pointing fingers are all BS, has far has i am concerned. We need to stick together, rather then apart.....

 

ppl who havent opened cases need to do so asap. Atleast if we dont get our money back, justice will be served apon these criminals.

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JPBon
QUOTE FROM QBALL:

Lizelle (I think it was Lizelle), phoned me earlier today after I tried to reach them this morning, she still proclaims innocence in this whole affair, and that Sakkie and Cornelia are the one's behind it (again, this is based on what "Lizelle" has told me). There are too many stories going around... How many stories did they feed buyer's about the robbery, the refunds, empty promises?

 

 

How come "QBALL" cud get in touch with sakkie yesterday and lizelle today. But BOB team fails to do so ????? Are they even trying too get intouch with them ?

 

Hi Prilene QBALL is part of the BOB team.

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koosdoepie

The shooters account is blacklisted so they cant file snc against no paying buyers so you are taking all the commission that should be paid back to buyers

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lilythepink

To prilene kistnasami - you asked how "qball" could get in touch with sakkie yesterday. I believe that qball is part of admin at BoB (or am I mistaken?).

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prilene kistnasami

Whoops sorry qball, my mistake. Yes n_gerhardt managed to get in contact with sakkie....,

and you lizelle.

 

BUt why cant bob get intouch with them ????

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prilene kistnasami

O well, if Qball - is part of the bob team, atleast they tried then :-)

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qball
The shooters account is blacklisted so they cant file snc against no paying buyers so you are taking all the commission that should be paid back to buyers

 

I am sorry, but this does not make sense? Please clarify?

 

Thanks

Cuan

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