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Little voice warning me about seller shooters

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pcmsa
An email has been sent out to all the purchasers. If they don't know what's going on by now its due to their own negligence

 

I dont think so, I never got an email.

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Dave96

Etc.etc

 

Chick in Heidelberg rips off BidorBuy peeps for over R200,000 - Page 10 - Broadband & ADSL Forums - Internet, Gaming, Hardware, Software

 

Cuan, please stop insisting that all people affected by this scam have been notified by BoB, when this is quite obviously NOT the case!

 

As for the rest of us who are following proceedings, you might be interested to follow posts on My Broadband, related to the scamming. Follow the link above.

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prilene kistnasami
I'm wondering if they have police protection as quite a few buyers know their address.

 

Good ?, dont be surprised, people will close by, will diffinately go knocking on they door, and they have a right too, cos its they hard earned money lost.

 

SO many people did they christmas shopping via BOB, some even spend all they bonuses on lizelles items, but in the very end what do they have to show for it, niks nadda, nothing. LIke me bought 3 items as gifts to take to my familys home. I have no money to go and buy gifts again. So instead on me showing up at x-mas lunch, with no gift, i rather just sit all alone at home. Lizelle has really spoilt many x-mas this year. SHe will get whats coming to her - big time!!!

 

You know what they say , you can run but cannot hide forever !

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Dave96

For those who are interested.......

 

I have posted the contact details of the scammers on the My BroadBand Forum. You may use these details to open cases against the scammers.

 

PS: The CEO of BoB has posted responses to comments about the scam on My BroadBand, Bid or Buy fraudsters arrested - Page 5 - Broadband & ADSL Forums - Internet, Gaming, Hardware, Software but presumably he does not have a password to do the same on the BoB Forum??

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prilene kistnasami

Excellent Dave ! Good Thinking

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prilene kistnasami

O gosh ...daves thread dissappeared

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OScrapKits
I dont think so, I never got an email.

 

Please send an email to hello@birorbuy.co.za and let them know.

 

This is really starting to get my goat, that SO many people have not received an email from BoB notifying them of this problem....

 

Come on BoB, sort out your systems!!!

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prilene kistnasami

To The Admin Team At Bob

 

Did Your'll Contact Lizelle After She Was Released From Jail ?????

Surely , Someone Must Try And Contact Her Telephonically ????

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Dave96

Please explain.......

 

.......why you delete a posting that gives the contact details of the scammers so that those who were scammed can lay charges, and why you have deleted a post criticising the fact that the CEO of BoB responds to postings on the My Broadband Forum, but has not done so on his own BoB forum?

I get the distinct impression that when someone makes a justified comment regarding this whole saga, and that it might be too close to the truth, it gets deleted. Why dont you respond appropriately instead!

 

Should this post be deleted, I will, in my personal capacity, place an ad in a National newspaper warning people about the dangers of using BoB as a buying forum, and about the absolute autocratic attitude and high-handed approach that the BoB administration have adopted in respect of this case.

 

Stop acting like a bloody ostrich....the issue will not go away, in spite of the deletion of critical posts!!

 

As for my future participation on BoB.....I currently have a 98% positive rating, with more that 350 purchases done over the past few years......GOODBYE!!!!!!

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qball

Dear All

 

Unfortunately some posts are not contributing in a positive way to this issue. We have been very accomodating in allowing you to vent and have your say on this forum. Contact details can be shared via PM, and many members have already been utilising this functionality. There is already a link to myBB, at the top of this page - Called Linkback. We do not control what happens on myBB, but we do respond to threads if alerted to them.

 

Andy responded to the posts on MyBB as someone notified him of it, he did not have to respond to the post on MyBB. What Andy stated on MyBB has been repeatedly discussed and stated on this forum. We allow criticism on this forum everyday however at the end of the day the forum belongs to bidorbuy, we reserve the right to remove, delete, close any post, thread or comment, regardless of whether there are legitimate reasons for posting on the forum. Andy's response to the posts on MyBB is not critical to the resolution of this case and has no bearing on the current criminal case.

 

What has happened is unfortunate, it is regrettable and we empathise with you, however, the blame game does not help anyone, it certainly does not add anything constructive to the situation. We could simply turn around and not assist anyone who was affected by this, yet, we have chosen to try help as much as we can. We could also simply direct you to our terms of use which every one of you agreed to when you registered on the site. Yet, we are here trying to assist you in resolving this.

 

As this is a criminal investigation we need to wait and see what happens with the seller and how the case progresses. We will try keep you updated as often as we can. We recommend that users contact their investigating officer to make contact with Lizelle.

 

Regarding the mail that was sent out, it was sent out to approx. 400 odd users, some of which have already received their goods, dating back to October. This mail was definitely sent out as we have had numerous responses to it. We will have to check why some of you have not received it.

 

Please remember -

Posts that do not conform to the forum rules will be deleted, this includes confrontational, argumentative posts and flaming.

 

We realise this is an emotional issue and not everything we do will meet with everyone's approval, unfortunately that is the nature of trading on the internet, not just bidorbuy.

 

We have processes to follow and we apologise if you feel this is "autocratic and high handed". Without these processes there is no direction, no objectivity and no resolution to these kinds of issues. We cannot allow emotion to drive our behaviour or responses, but what we deem is necessary to resolve this situation, despite the anger, frustration and emotions that may be evident.

 

We ask that you please bear this in mind when posting on the forum. The forum is here for you to express yourself within reason, to get assistance and to get information about this issue. It is also completely understandable if some of you do not continue to trade on bidorbuy, however, the forum alone is not going to solve or rectify these issues, nor is it going to get your money back, only time will tell how this investigation will pan out and if the funds will be recovered.

 

Thank you.

Cuan

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qball

Hi All

 

We have checked the mail message that was sent out on the 14th December. We can confirm it was definitely sent out. For those of you who may not have received it, we will resend it again today. So far I am only aware of 2 people who have not received the mailer. Please also check your junk mail folders, or check with your service provider.

 

Thank you. Unfortunately we have no further news on the investigation today, but please keep on sending in your affadavits.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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qball

Hi All

 

I also want to clarify some issues:

 

1. When an account is blacklisted, an email is triggered to the most recent buyers advising them that the account was blacklisted and to contact us for further assistance. Some members, who bought items as far back as October and November did not get this notification. We thus sent out a second email on the 14th notifying all users who bought from Shooters to open cases and contact us for assistance. Prior to this we did notify anyone who contacted our office from the 8th onwards to open cases. We will be looking at improving the communications systems going forward.

 

2. Regarding the claims that money from the sale of these items were paid to bidorbuy is completely untrue, bidorbuy did not receive any funds from the sale of these items and the seller did not pay the money to bidorbuy. Buyers made payment directly into the seller's account.

 

3. As of the 7th of December, bidorbuy has not managed to recover any fees owed by the seller, amounting to thousands of Rands (it most definitely is not in the region of R120 000 or R60 000 as claimed by some people on myBB).

 

4. We estimate the total amount in Rand value of money paid to the seller at around R1.1 to R1.2 million, however, we cannot know for sure who has paid and who has not, as some members did receive goods during this time and some members did not make payment as yet. This is an estimate, we cannot confirm if this is indeed the actual amount.

 

5. The account being blacklisted on the 8th has nothing to do with the fees owed or the billing cycle that runs on the 7th. I am sorry to say but this is pure co-incidence.

 

6. The seller was warned on the 28th Nov for negative ratings. At this stage there were only several complaints, and the procedures followed in dealing with such issues, warning issued to the seller, mails sent to them etc., based on the information at hand at the time and the seller's sales history.

 

7. The seller was in contact with us the week thereafter, via email and telephone, up until the 4th Dec, explaining the robbery and that the items would be shipped. At the end of November the seller's negative ratings were still minimal, and had a positive score of 96%, with over 400 successful transactions. At that stage we could not predict that the seller was not going to conclude the transactions, this only became evident from about the 7th December, and the seller's account restricted and items removed. We then blacklisted the account on the 8th.

 

8. The following week we tried to get hold of her again but could not, so from the 8th we starting advising users to open cases. We continued to try make contact with the seller during that week, and did receive phone calls from Lizelle on the 9th.

 

7. The seller was then arrested on the 10th, due to some of the cases opened by buyers.

 

8. We then sent out a mail on the 14th advising users of what actions to take.

 

We hope this adds some clarity to these issues being raised.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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qball

Hi All

 

This thread was closed temporarily, it is being opened again. Please kindly refrain from making false accusations, stick to the facts. Abusive and confrontational posts will be removed without warning.

 

We are happy to discuss any concerns or issues you may have, but please keep it civil, polite and on topic. Should our responses not satisfy your requirements, please feel free to make an appointment to come see me personally, I will be happy to show you all our internal correspondence, records and other details relating to this issue. We have nothing to hide nor are we fabricating any information that we are giving you.

 

Thank you

Cuan

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qball

Further to the discussions above. We only received a handful of complaints at the end of November, and the necessary action was taken at that time. During this time the seller was in touch with us, and based on some of the responses from buyers, refunds and goods had been delivered even up until the 8th December. The bulk of the transactions affected by this were from the 25th Nov til the 4th Dec. During this time, the seller was still getting positive ratings for delivery and for refunds being made for goods not delivered.

 

As our site is built on trust, from what we could see the seller was making an effort to resolve these situations, there was at that stage no proof or evidence that fraud was taking place. Most of the negatives also only started coming in after the 4th Dec. The seller had contacted many buyers explaining their "situation" to them and assuring them that their transactions would be sorted out. At no time did we foresee that the seller would simply break off contact and not respond. Obviously the seller was stalling for time. If you think about it, if the seller was going to disappear, they would have done so around the 5th or 6th, after most people had made payment. However, they were easily located in Heidelberg and only arrested 5 days afterwards. This is not typical "scammer" behaviour, and even during that week, Lizelle had been in contact with us telephonically and asked for a spreadsheet of all the buyers they had sold to. This was emailed to her on the 10th December. During the 2 weeks that this was happening, the seller was in contact with us and some of the buyers, who notified us of the discussions with her, based on this we decided to give the seller the benefit of the doubt. Obviously our trust was also abused.

 

Some buyers who had purchased in October and earler in November had not necessarily reported this to us, so at the time no action could be taken if it was not reported to us. And as of the 27th November the seller still had a positive rating score of 96% and over 400 sales on their account.

 

We have also been asked why we didn't oppose bail. Well, we simply can't. We are not the complainant, nor did we pay any funds to the seller. We are considered a third party (it would be considered hearsay). We are trying to advise and assist the police the best we can, however, as this is a criminal matter now, we cannot interfere. It is now in the hands of the investigating officers and the court to decide what happens. As already stated we will try to keep you updated on this as events unfold.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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Vagito

good tht you have reopened th thread.

 

since their release have u managed to contact the seller?

 

being in Moz and without being able to take a more direct aproach to this sucks.

 

keep us posted.

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qball

Unfortunately not, they are not answering the numbers provided. I have left several messages. If you are based in SA, we recommend you contact the investigating officer at Germiston Commercial Crimes, Capt. Sibiya on 083 729 0245.

 

Thank you

Cuan

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Dave96

A strange twist in the tale........

 

2. Regarding the claims that money from the sale of these items were paid to bidorbuy is completely untrue, bidorbuy did not receive any funds from the sale of these items and the seller did not pay the money to bidorbuy. Buyers made payment directly into the seller's account.

 

We have been re-assurred about this aspect for the umpteenth time.........

 

Please re-check your records.....a cash deposit of R21500.00 from Shooters was made into BoB's account on 2nd December 2009. A copy of the deposit slip was faxed through to Morne at 086 509 5213

 

Documentary proof to this effect is available.

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qball

Hi Dave

 

This was a fee payment from November. There are claims that we received payment from the sale of the goods, this is untrue. The seller was sent a reminder in Mid November regarding outstanding fees owed from November, this was paid by the seller, and only deposited on the 2nd, at this stage there was no proof of fraud. The seller still has thousands of Rands owing in fees from the time period that all the "fraudulent" sales took place. At the end of the day, 99% of the buyer's money was paid directly to the seller.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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qball

As stated we are more than happy to discuss any issues you may have. We are talking about potentially over a million Rand stolen from buyers, the seller obviously wants you to think that we received the funds from these sales. This is untrue.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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Dave96

A wicked twist to the tale....contd

 

So, if I understand your response correctly, this was a payment for all sales concluded during the month of November 2009. If this is so, then it MUST include commissions from sales that were made, monies that were paid over, and goods that were never delivered.

 

Keep in mind that the scams started on or about 20th November 2009??

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qball

Yes Dave, that would be correct, however, the fees paid were incurred over October & November and were as a result of mainly successfully completed transactions during the October/November period. The seller contacted us before the 20th, before this all happened agreeing to pay the outstanding fees as they had an outsanding balance since Oct. If you would like to visit our offices this week, we would be happy to show this to you.

 

Kind regards.

Cuan

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Dave96

Come on......

 

.....what a weak response!!! And after rechecking my facts.....the first negative ratings for NON-DELIVERY were made on 5th November 2009. So from this date onwards, at regular intervals, and increasingly so towards the end of November, negative ratings were coming in thick and fast.

 

Now....you have already admitted that BoB had received the payment, why suddenly make reference to something as vague as "this is what the seller wants us to believe!"

 

Rather be courageous and say something like: "Sorry, we have been lying to you all along....we have received a payment of R21500.00 on 2nd December, the majority of which was for commission on goods that were never delivered!"

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qball

Hi Dave

 

No one has lied to you Dave. This is your opinion and you are entitled to have your opinion heard. Yes, there were some negatives in November, but the majority of non delivery of items took place from after the 20th, most buyers were affected by this in the last month.

 

Kind regards

Cuan

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Dave96

Furthermore.....

 

.....it is a well-known and established fact that Shooters sold relatively low-value small household appliances in October, and only escalated their sales to high-value items in November........

 

Now, if some calculations are made and we "assume" that the payment of R21500.00 was at 4% commission, this would reflect sales of close to R540,000.00, THE BULK OF WHICH WERE MADE IN NOVEMBER!!!

 

It would be fair to deduce that approximately 75% of the commission paid over was for sales concluded in November!

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