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Bitcoins Listed in Numismatics - Is Bitcoin taking over?

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15 minutes ago, Mike Klee said:

I will reply to the last part of your quote first by saying that this is not correct: I for one do not mind if I make a loss. It is the privilege of (temporarily) being the custodian of something beautiful and historical that drives me and, I suspect , many other numismatists.

Re Mandela R5 coins, these have carved themselves a place in notoriety in South African numismatics simply because so many people believed that the R5 coin they had was worth multiples of R5 and refused to believe that the true worth was only R5. Secondly, my perception is that large quantities of slabbed Mandela R5 coins were sold to the public at what can only be described as ridiculous prices, with the buyers believing that they would make a fortune on their "investment". This was never to be. There are thus many Mandela R5 coin owners out there whose only experience of numismatics has been a very bad and expensive one.

The bottom line is that numismatics is about collecting coins,  for whatever reason people collect things.  If one is a purist, whether these collected coins make a profit or a loss doesn't matter one iota to people such as myself.

Hi

Great posting many thanks - you are 100% correct  - I was the owner of the finest known 1892 Proof and Mint State Set EVER known - it was an amazing feeling - I flew all over the world to share the passion and love I had for these coins - I owned so many coins which MOST here have never seen - My Image Gallery on ZAR Coins is amazing and mind boggling - I truly love ZAR coins and the history compared to modern SA Mint Coins - I owned these coins for years and many others came to me and were passed on - I eventually decided to sell my entire collections - The 1892 Proof Set was on Heritage as the "Orange River Collection" - Both the finest known Gold Pond and Halfponde went unsold twice on Heritage - I was fortunate as the 5 Shilling Proof 66 sold for an amazing $165k.... It was a true GEM - The best Crown we have ever seen :)

I have no regrets as I enjoyed my collection and shared with many others... But I had to move with the times and once I understood Blockchain I was amazed at this beautiful technology - Blockchain to me now is a HOBBY because Bitcoin is more scarce than Numismatic Coins - Imagine Bitcoin started only in 2009 and already about 30% of the coins will never be recovered ever  - they lost for good.... 

 

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Pierre_Henri

What I am saying is that when it comes to collecting (coins, stamps, etc.) then the PRIMARY aim is to complete your collection by searching for the best items that you can afford and the joy & pleasure that you get from this endeavor.

As soon as you start “collecting” with the primary aim to make money (“investing”) then you will probably burn your fingers.

When the day comes that you must sell your collection, then the money that you receive must be seen as a BONUS – an add-on to the joy that your collection has brought you over the years.

And YES, everyone would like to know that he/she made a handsome “profit” because he bought his items by doing his homework before laying out his hard earned cash and YES nobody wish to sell his collection at half what he has paid for it.  BUT that must be secondary issues to the prime one – the JOY that you had that cannot be defined in monetary terms.

The weekend golfer that enjoyed his game for 40 years receives NOTHING back after he leaves the golf course for the last time. The weekend angler receives NOTHING back after he has caught his last fish.

But the coin collector receives something back depending on the value of his collection and obviously the more he receives back the happier he will be. If he bought rare items at fair prices over the years he would have made a good investment and if he bought Mandela R5 coins at inflated prices then he has made a bad investment – that was what I was referring to when I said that rare numismatic items is a good investment (vs. non-rare items that is a horrible investment)

But these are secondary issues: – For me, collecting comes first and investment must play second fiddle – at least that is how I see it.

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EWAAN Galleries
10 minutes ago, Pierre_Henri said:

What I am saying is that when it comes to collecting (coins, stamps, etc.) then the PRIMARY aim is to complete your collection by searching for the best items that you can afford and the joy & pleasure that you get from this endeavor.

As soon as you start “collecting” with the primary aim to make money (“investing”) then you will probably burn your fingers.

When the day comes that you must sell your collection, then the money that you receive must be seen as a BONUS – an add-on to the joy that your collection has brought you over the years.

And YES, everyone would like to know that he/she made a handsome “profit” because he bought his items by doing his homework before laying out his hard earned cash and YES nobody wish to sell his collection at half what he has paid for it.  BUT that must be secondary issues to the prime one – the JOY that you had that cannot be defined in monetary terms.

The weekend golfer that enjoyed his game for 40 years receives NOTHING back after he leaves the golf course for the last time. The weekend angler receives NOTHING back after he has caught his last fish.

But the coin collector receives something back depending on the value of his collection and obviously the more he receives back the happier he will be. If he bought rare items at fair prices over the years he would have made a good investment and if he bought Mandela R5 coins at inflated prices then he has made a bad investment – that was what I was referring to when I said that rare numismatic items is a good investment (vs. non-rare items that is a horrible investment)

But these are secondary issues: – For me, collecting comes first and investment must play second fiddle – at least that is how I see it.

 

Quoted from Pierre: 

"But, make no mistake - the numbers of coins available as true rarities (rare coins) are still the same and even with a modest rise in the numbers of collectors, the value of truly rare coins will keep on rising as the years progress.

I have no doubt of that – investing in true numismatic rarities have outshine any other investment option that I have been following in the last 20 years."

 

Well you did mention that it is an "INVESTMENT" - Many others have made more money on Real Estate, Stocks and Shares - you also did mention the value on these coins will keep on rising? I have only seen them falling recently.....

The Veldpond MS63 went to R310k then the bid was deleted - I immediately got a call from underbidder as he was in panic and wanted to lower his bid - so much panic when really want this true Gem as a COLLECTOR?

It will be interesting to see how this small batch of ZAR coins sell for compared to Bitcoin - not that it makes any difference to me actually :)

https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/954693/EWAAN_Galleries

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jwither
9 hours ago, EWAAN Galleries said:

I have no regrets as I enjoyed my collection and shared with many others... But I had to move with the times and once I understood Blockchain I was amazed at this beautiful technology - Blockchain to me now is a HOBBY because Bitcoin is more scarce than Numismatic Coins - Imagine Bitcoin started only in 2009 and already about 30% of the coins will never be recovered ever  - they lost for good.... 

 

Classifying blockchain as a hobby with a comparison to numismatics makes no sense.  It equally makes no sense to compare Bitcoin to coins in the aggregate.  Bitcoin is one of an essentially infinite number of options for different crypto coins.

The only distinction between Bitcoin and other crypto currencies is its name recognition or brand image.  Otherwise, it is just another fiat currency but just a privately issued one.

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EWAAN Galleries
21 minutes ago, jwither said:

Classifying blockchain as a hobby with a comparison to numismatics makes no sense.  It equally makes no sense to compare Bitcoin to coins in the aggregate.  Bitcoin is one of an essentially infinite number of options for different crypto coins.

The only distinction between Bitcoin and other crypto currencies is its name recognition or brand image.  Otherwise, it is just another fiat currency but just a privately issued one.

I think you should study the different crypto coins. Most have nothing to do with bitcoin whatsoever. All have own concepts. How fiat? No government issues crypto. You mean it's a hedge against fiat?

Edited by EWAAN Galleries

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EWAAN Galleries
30 minutes ago, EWAAN Galleries said:

I think you should study the different crypto coins. Most have nothing to do with bitcoin whatsoever. All have own concepts. How fiat? No government issues crypto. You mean it's a hedge against fiat?

Trying to study and figure out these different tokens is so much more fun and has actually become a fun hobby. Also cost me a lot of money. Like rare coins I lost monies on some. Same thing :)

 

 

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jwither
3 hours ago, EWAAN Galleries said:

I think you should study the different crypto coins. Most have nothing to do with bitcoin whatsoever. All have own concepts. How fiat? No government issues crypto. You mean it's a hedge against fiat?

I am aware other crypto currencies are issued independently of Bitcoin.

I meant fiat in the sense that it has no intrinsic value.  It isn't fiat as government currencies.

Don't get me wrong, I have been an advocate of currency competition for a long time.  Most people implicitly make a distinction between money and non-money but there is no reason there cannot be multiple currencies competing in the same political jurisdiction concurrently and no reason why "money" can or should only be issued by governments.

Blogger Charles Hugh Smith recently (as in the last week or two) wrote an interesting post on the feasibility of (crypto) currencies functioning with less than all of the traditional attributes of "money": store of value, unit of account and medium of exchange.  I had never thought of it in this context before.

Bitcoin (or another crypto currency) might have a future under this model.  I don't see it ever functioning as a full replacement for existing fiat currencies, even if governments choose not to ban or control it, with the existing volatility.  Today, Bitcoin isn't a hedge against anything and while it can be used as a payment option, is also impractical and will develop no scale due to its volatility.

 

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EWAAN Galleries
9 hours ago, Pierre_Henri said:

jwither, you are going to be asked questions upon questions to keep this thread going and as long as this link could be sneaked in between the questions ...

https://www.bidorbuy.co.za/seller/954693/EWAAN_Galleries

I can see you want to get personal now. How does one small thread affect you? If you don't like it just stay out of it as you have many threads going or no problems I'll do you a favour and stay out of your marketing of coins here....nice chatting...have a great day further....

Edited by EWAAN Galleries

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EWAAN Galleries

I am so so sorry for messing up the numismatic market. I'm so sorry the prices have tanked completely.  I'm so sorry to all dealers and collectors who are sitting with stock and don't even have buyers for them. Im so sorry Numismatic was not a good investment in the last few years. 

How many times must I say I'm Sorry???

 

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Johan

Hi Everyone,

I have been looking at this topic and it seems that posts are getting more and more of a personal nature and in my view this is not adding value to the topic. 

I know that this subject is a bit sensitive as we all grapple with the changes in our world and how it fits in. So in this instance it is totally normal for there to be opinions that differ sharply, that being said we should debate the facts and opinions vigorously steering clear of cheap shots and character assassination. 

With the amount of complaints from all the main posters and the number of posts I have had to delete, I have taken the decision to lock this thread.

Johan 

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