Jump to content
Pierre_Henri

Bitcoin in PF68 graded - better than a Mandela R5 graded PF68 or not?

Recommended Posts

Pierre_Henri

I have a "bit" of a problem with this coin, but maybe the younger generation will help me out - maybe they will know if it is a better investment than the Mandela R5 series that went from hero to zero in a few very short years  ... 

I will be back in SA on the 16th so cannot respond to replies, but best of luck!

image.png.e9e226f0f6da4d76bdd3aa54d3b16761.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Cold Sea

Here's what I understand about crypto currency.

It was meant to be an anonymous on-line currency, by-passing the forex traders and their commissions. However, at the moment it seems that every secretary and their cat is buying up Bitcoin and the like, in the hope of selling at a profit in future. In other words, the price is driven by speculators at the moment, much like the Mandelas and tulips. Maybe some coin collectors will find this attractive and invest in Bitcoin instead of coins, because as jwither keeps reminding us, a large percentage of coin collectors are also speculators.

However, I do think crypto currency has a future, but it is not as cheap to transact as you think.  The currency must still be converted into cash at the end of the day, from Bitcoin to dollar to rand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Darth Penguin

I think the "coin" in Bitcoin is as close you are going to get to making a comparison between coin investing and cryptocurrencies. Lemme just start by saying I know very little about  "numismatics", I can barely spell it...

Anyway, the idea behind cryptocurrencies is to be used as a digital currency for day to day transactions but as Cold Sea said, every second guy is "investing" in it. The value is completely driven by emotion, supply and demand and it is EXTREMELY volatile:

  • Japan's government announces that Bitcoin is now a legal currency - the price jumps
  • Two month's later China starts locking down on exchanges declaring them illegal - the price drops
  • A week later there is positive news with regards to the exchanges out of Japan - the price jumps

As far as volatility goes:

  • In August the price of Bitcoin basically doubled: $2000 - $4000. That's 100% growth in 30 days
  • In June Ether (another cryptocurrency) crashed from $390 to $0.10 in a few seconds. That's basically a 99.7% loss in seconds. And it's all because of the infancy/immaturity of these systems that need to be ironed out first. What happened, in this case, is that somebody placed a sell trade worth millions. This caused the price to drop which started triggering stop losses which started a chain reaction. Some guy had earlier placed an order to buy a lot of Ether at 10c and when it hit that price it executed. The price then jumped back up - a lot of people lost a lot of money and one guy became an instant millionaire.

These cryptocurrencies are more like gold mining where the gold is supposed to be used for trade but instead hoarded.

The underlying technology which these cryptocurrencies are running on is also susceptible to the issues and glitches. In August, because Bitcoin was becoming too slow, there was a hard fork because an agreement on the way forward couldn't be reached. A hard fork is literally a divergence in the source code and from that point forward you effectively have two separate coins instead of one. That is apparently going happen again now the end of October/November.

Storing of your coins is another technical issue - you either store it on an exchange like Luno (South African company in Stellenbosch) just like you would in a bank, but that is very susceptible to hacking. In fact, there have been numerous hacks this year where people lost a lot of money simply because it was stolen (like the bank vault in the Wild West being taken by a gang of robbers). The money is simply gone. The solution is to store it offline either on your computer, a flash drive or a "vault" which is a piece of hardware specifically made to securely store your coins.

Yes...that is the solution in a world where we are trying to push everything to the cloud. In a world where we are searching for convenience, we are forced to move backwards for security's sake.

Keeping all that in mind and not touching on subjects like what will happen to the value of these currencies when they start being regulated, do you still want to invest? It is technically daunting for the average guy and he is a sitting duck with a few coins waiting to make a mistake.

 

So,

  • For short-term speculating, there probably isn't a better investment if you are looking for huge gains. Just like Forex.
  • For the medium long-term, it's still a great investment if you can stomach the volatility and you are willing to accept the risk.
  • Long-term though, there's just way too much uncertainty. And I reckon by the time the certainty is there it'll either have settled into a role as a regular currency with no reason to "invest" in it or it'll still be to risky given my age.

 

I'm 31 now, made a few bucks with BTC but not very eager to jump back in. Like a "boring" person, I stick to ETFs, shares and unit trusts. That's from one cautious "techie's" point of view.

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manfred1
15 hours ago, Pierre_Henri said:

I have a "bit" of a problem with this coin, but maybe the younger generation will help me out - maybe they will know if it is a better investment than the Mandela R5 series that went from hero to zero in a few very short years  ... 

Pierre, maybe i'm not understanding your question ... you are talking about the same grading with regard to both bitcoin and the R5.

In my opinion, the bitcoin is cryptocurrency and any bitcoin in metal is worth the metal it's made of. 

I would call that only a token or "fantacy" item" I might be wrong but i don't think there will ever be a "collectors" market for bitcoins in coin format. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre_Henri

Hi Manfred1, We are on our way to the airport but I just saw your reply before leaving

I know that Bitcoin is only a cryptocurrency and obviously is not a "coin" per se.

I only wanted to state the fact that both bitcoin and the Mandela R5 series may have one thing in common  - a speculators market that might drive the value of the first mentioned down as it already did with last mentioned. The Mandela R5 market has all but crashed as the Tulip market did in Amsterdam during the 1600s.  And who remember Adriaan Niewoudt's  "vrot melk" Kubis scam of the 1980s?

Maybe the cryptocurrencies are next? A type of Ponzi scam perhaps?

Nice post above by Darth Penguin by the way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Manfred1
39 minutes ago, Pierre_Henri said:

Maybe the cryptocurrencies are next? A type of Ponzi scam perhaps?

Nice post above by Darth Penguin by the way.

Agreed, nice post by Darth Penguin.

I'm not an expert on bitcoin but as DP mentioned, the moment China banned all ICO's (Initial Coin Offerings) the world heard "bitcoin" 

I'll leave my two coins in cold storage and hope for the best ....

Enjoy your trip ...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jwither
On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 2:57 AM, Cold Sea said:

Here's what I understand about crypto currency.

It was meant to be an anonymous on-line currency, by-passing the forex traders and their commissions. However, at the moment it seems that every secretary and their cat is buying up Bitcoin and the like, in the hope of selling at a profit in future. In other words, the price is driven by speculators at the moment, much like the Mandelas and tulips. Maybe some coin collectors will find this attractive and invest in Bitcoin instead of coins, because as jwither keeps reminding us, a large percentage of coin collectors are also speculators.

However, I do think crypto currency has a future, but it is not as cheap to transact as you think.  The currency must still be converted into cash at the end of the day, from Bitcoin to dollar to rand.

I have limited familiarity with the inner workings of cryptocurrency.  What I will say though is that I don't currently consider it to be a substitute for government issued fiat currencies.

The reason for this conclusion is that, as someone above stated, the value isn't stable enough and until it is, it will mostly or entirely remain as it is now.  I see no possibility that hardly anyone would place a noticeable proportion or most of their life savings into such a speculative vehicle, regardless of what it's proponents believe.

Today, Bitcoin or any other crypto currency behaves more like any other speculative asset, such as shares on the stock market or commodities.

I see Bitcoin as yet another example of the financialization of the global economy and another manifestation of the greatest asset, credit and debt mania in the history of civilization.

Maybe without rampant speculation in everything and much lower leverage from reduced debt it will be a viable alternative but not otherwise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
EWAAN Galleries

Hi All

Buy Bitcoins :)

1 Bitcoin = 1892 Pond in UNC

And 1 Bitcoin is actually more scarce than numismatic coins... 

Move with the times - Bartering, Silver, Gold, Cattle, Paper Money, Cheque Books, Visa Cards - And Now BITCOIN

I suggest you do some research and understand the blockchain technology - you will most likely sell all your coins and buy Bitcoins :)

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×