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Mandela R5 collectors

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EWAAN Galleries

@Pierre_Henri

I still have some items laying around which I'm willing to donate to the lower class. We can build some wells where water is needed quite badly in Africa. This project will be water free for all in villages in Africa no matter what race or colour or religion the person follows. It's water and free for all. 

Will you be willing to auction all these items off at a reasonable fee for me and maybe bid or buy will lower fees if for charity? If this is okay please let me know and I'll get all items shipped from JHB to you in Cape Town? 

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EWAAN Galleries
11 hours ago, testrarossa said:

Hi came across this post on NGC coin forum and thought I share. I hope the link works because the photo of all the R5 used as a sofa bed made my day. Happy holidays.

https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/topic/384890-biggest-nelson-mandela-r5-collection-by-sacoin/

He should just change them to normal paper money - I prefer the R200 notes :)

Edited by EWAAN Galleries

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Pierre_Henri
19 hours ago, testrarossa said:

Hi came across this post on NGC coin forum and thought I share. I hope the link works because the photo of all the R5 used as a sofa bed made my day. Happy holidays.

https://www.ngccoin.com/boards/topic/384890-biggest-nelson-mandela-r5-collection-by-sacoin/

Well, that sums up almost everything many of us have been predicting for those who chose numismatics as a get-rich-quick  scheme.

Those Mandela R5 coins  will burn his pathetic & greedy backside for many years to come

This is a numismatic forum - leave coins to coin collectors, and we will leave whatever you guys do to get rich quick,  alone ... 



 

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EWAAN Galleries
On 11/29/2017 at 6:23 PM, Pierre_Henri said:

Well, that sums up almost everything many of us have been predicting for those who chose numismatics as a get-rich-quick  scheme.

Those Mandela R5 coins  will burn his pathetic & greedy backside for many years to come

This is a numismatic forum - leave coins to coin collectors, and we will leave whatever you guys do to get rich quick,  alone ... 



 

Is the Mandela R5 coin no longer numismatics? Yes of course its part of numismatics - could you define numismatics?

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EWAAN Galleries

The Mandela R5 coins was actually the best thing for Numismatics in South Africa - Why? - Because when people lost their monies buying these coins they woke up and started investing into ZAR and Union Coins - So actually it was very good for the coin market in South Africa :) - And Pierre and myself have sold these coins on R1 starts on auction here on bid or buy - And I know we both made some money on the Mandela R5 coins.....If it wasn't for the Mandela R5 coins many would have never known that the company NGC existed...

Edited by EWAAN Galleries

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jwither
6 hours ago, EWAAN Galleries said:

The Mandela R5 coins was actually the best thing for Numismatics in South Africa - Why? - Because when people lost their monies buying these coins they woke up and started investing into ZAR and Union Coins - So actually it was very good for the coin market in South Africa :) - And Pierre and myself have sold these coins on R1 starts on auction here on bid or buy - And I know we both made some money on the Mandela R5 coins.....If it wasn't for the Mandela R5 coins many would have never known that the company NGC existed...

If there is any evidence that the Mandela coin mania was a positive for South African numismatics, I have never read a single post on this forum to support it and I am equally not aware of any evidence elsewhere to believe it either.

As usual with the posts on this forum, what you are describing has nothing to do with collecting or numismatics and as I have stated more times than I can even remember, is the best explanation for why your market is "in the dumps" financially having cratered since the YE 2011 price peak.

The Mandela coin mania coincided with the BUBBLE in Union and ZAR prices which ended somewhere around YE 2011. Whether it burst before or after the Union and ZAR price peak, I don't know. 

Your claim is almost certainly correct that many of these financial buyers of Mandela coins (aka, "investors") did "invest" in Union and ZAR.  I have made the same claim myself even without direct knowledge of it because it was an entirely logical assumption for the vastly inflated prices which existed for Union and ZAR at the YE 2011 price peak. 

What you didn't mention of course is that most of them almost certainly were financial losers and are either holding coins which are worth a (low) fraction of what they paid or experienced losses which will almost certainly keep them out of the "hobby" for the rest of their lives, exactly as would be expected by anyone who is familiar with how collectors and speculators actually behave.

The financialization of the hobby in your country which an outsized percentage of contributors on this forum seem to think is such a positive is actually a big negative for both real collecting and the future price level of your coinage.

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EWAAN Galleries
2 hours ago, jwither said:

If there is any evidence that the Mandela coin mania was a positive for South African numismatics, I have never read a single post on this forum to support it and I am equally not aware of any evidence elsewhere to believe it either.

As usual with the posts on this forum, what you are describing has nothing to do with collecting or numismatics and as I have stated more times than I can even remember, is the best explanation for why your market is "in the dumps" financially having cratered since the YE 2011 price peak.

The Mandela coin mania coincided with the BUBBLE in Union and ZAR prices which ended somewhere around YE 2011. Whether it burst before or after the Union and ZAR price peak, I don't know. 

Your claim is almost certainly correct that many of these financial buyers of Mandela coins (aka, "investors") did "invest" in Union and ZAR.  I have made the same claim myself even without direct knowledge of it because it was an entirely logical assumption for the vastly inflated prices which existed for Union and ZAR at the YE 2011 price peak. 

What you didn't mention of course is that most of them almost certainly were financial losers and are either holding coins which are worth a (low) fraction of what they paid or experienced losses which will almost certainly keep them out of the "hobby" for the rest of their lives, exactly as would be expected by anyone who is familiar with how collectors and speculators actually behave.

The financialization of the hobby in your country which an outsized percentage of contributors on this forum seem to think is such a positive is actually a big negative for both real collecting and the future price level of your coinage.

Excellent posting :)

My point is that the normal person had no clue what ZAR or Union Coins or even NGC for that matter was until these few 100 000 coins were graded and sold on the market - the Mandela R5 coins made NGC in South Africa - As much as others run SA Coin down  - He did in fact make NGC known to many that had no clue that Numismatics even existed... So yes it brought in a lot of new Coin Collectors now...

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jwither
8 hours ago, EWAAN Galleries said:

Excellent posting :)

My point is that the normal person had no clue what ZAR or Union Coins or even NGC for that matter was until these few 100 000 coins were graded and sold on the market - the Mandela R5 coins made NGC in South Africa - As much as others run SA Coin down  - He did in fact make NGC known to many that had no clue that Numismatics even existed... So yes it brought in a lot of new Coin Collectors now...

Yes, I understand your point.  The point I was trying to make is that I don't consider the prior events a positive for collecting in your country, though others almost certainly disagree under the reasoning that all publicity is good for the "hobby".

As an outsider not living in your country and not having any interaction anymore with your collecting community except through this forum, I only have limited visibility on what is going on in your market.  Regardless though, by any sensible standard, leading up the 2011 price peak, a lot of people either overpaid for what they bought or were misled and ripped off.  Overwhelmingly, the posts on this forum only concentrate on the financial winners.  However, there is every reason to believe that the financial losers were just as numerous if not more so.  It just isn't evident because few will admit their losses in public.

How do I conclude this?

Well, by common sense there were three primary big winners during the bubble:

The biggest financial winners (proportionately if not absolutely) were the collectors (real collectors I might add) who bought their coins long before TPG even became prevalent in your market (as in around 2002) at rock bottom prices.  They owned a disproportionate number of the better and/or more expensive coins which were owned by collectors in South Africa.

Second, professional dealers such as yourself.  Sharp dealers have a much better gauge of the current state of the market than their customers.  My opinion is that their returns are and have been much better than the overwhelming percentage of their "investor" customers.  They will usually make money even as their customers are losing it - or else go out of business.

Third, TPG and especially NGC.  As I pointed out before, NGC was likely the biggest beneficiary of the Mandela coin mania, likely netting at least $1MM USD at absolutely zero financial risk.

It is my opinion that the Mandela coin mania and the associated Union and ZAR price bubble will negatively impact the price level in your market for a LONG TIME to come.  I don't believe most of these prior buyers were real collectors and so had no interest in collecting, except when they were making money off of their collection.  Longer term collectors disproportionately either couldn't afford to pay the much higher price level, refused to do so (considering the new prices absurd such as I do) or both.

As a point of comparison which I have used numerous times, US coins experienced a TPG bubble which "popped" in 1989.  I don't have detailed data but anyone can look at the PCGS price indices and see for themselves that most of them are LOWER NOW than 28 years ago and this is in NOMINAL terms, not adjusted for price changes.  Yes, many individual coins are worth more or a lot more but at least an equally large number are worth less and there is no reason to believe they will ever recover.

I equally expect that, decades from now, that many Union and ZAR will also be lower than at the 2011 peak, adjusted for price changes.  Unlike the US, your market may experience a second bubble but if so, it

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jwither

Never finished my last thought.  I meant to say that any future bubble will also be temporary.

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Cold Sea

Or in other words, a sunspot?

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EWAAN Galleries
On 11/29/2017 at 6:23 PM, Pierre_Henri said:

Well, that sums up almost everything many of us have been predicting for those who chose numismatics as a get-rich-quick  scheme.

Those Mandela R5 coins  will burn his pathetic & greedy backside for many years to come

This is a numismatic forum - leave coins to coin collectors, and we will leave whatever you guys do to get rich quick,  alone ... 



 

@admin - No Forum Rules Here?

 

 

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EWAAN Galleries
On 11/26/2017 at 5:36 PM, Cold Sea said:

Scuse me Mr Ladida, but your highness sure is flying high. Be careful of the sun, it might just melt those wings.

@admin again forum rules?

Please be fair :)

 

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