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Pierre_Henri

What has happend since December to the way listings are shown?

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Pierre_Henri

In the past, all my listings where shown in closing date order. Since the end of last year, my listings on BoB are shown randomly with the closing date playing no role.

 

I know that there is a “sort by“ button where the viewer can click on “Ending Soon” to arrange the listings in date order but then the Enhanced Listings (e.g. priority listings) will not show above normal listings if their closing dates are after those of the normal listings.

 

The “sort by” Default button will place priority listings above normal listings but then all those in the priority group are shown randomly and not (like in the past) in closing date order.

 

Why has this new system been introduced as it will have a horrible effect on the way I sell my items on BidorBuy?

 

Or am I missing something?

 

Pierre

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NooNooBug

Hadn't noticed that but I have to agree, makes no sense...maybe we missing something.

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CardinaJewels

We also picked up that earlier in december items are not longer time slot sorted, they are randomized with other auctions in the same promotion\ enhancement level, so through december there was no difference in listing your items earlier or later, closing it early just means losing out on extra bids and or sales. Just wish there was some announcement every time these changes are put in place so we are aware beforehand

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johan

Hi Pierre,

 

You are correct there has been some changes in the way that listings are displayed.

 

Towards the end of last year we implemented changes that has mainly been related to the way listings with enhancements are displayed and also giving sellers the option to add additional enhancements to open trades. That being said some changes were also effected due to the fact that some sellers were gaming the system in order to gain unfair exposure for normal listings above other sellers.

 

At present items listed in a normal category that is not part of a promotion like for eg. Crazy Wednesday will display in order of enhancement. So the more enhanced your item is the higher it will rank on the site.

 

The most noticeable change is how items with no enhancements on are ranked. Before we would rank those items according to how close they were to closing and then to when they were created. This meant that some users would list items well in advance for only a short space of time in order to take advantage of how we ranked items.

 

This practice would ensure that they would rank above most other users. Some users were doing it to such an extent that they would list items for only a few hours at a time to make sure that it is closest to closing all the time. This created massive churn on the number of listings we had to process every day, and it had a number of other knock on effects through out the site that effected the user experience.

 

The main issue was that these practices meant that not all sellers were on equal footing any more.

 

In order to level the playing field listings without any enhancements are now randomised in order to ensure that every one has an equal chance of having their items displayed at the top of the regular listing section. It is also important to note that these changes are in effect when the site is viewed through normal browsing and this is not in effect when users perform searches as there we would use the search term as a deciding factor.

 

I hope that this adequately answers your question.

 

Johan

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Pierre_Henri
Hi Pierre,

 

You are correct there has been some changes in the way that listings are displayed.

 

Towards the end of last year we implemented changes that has mainly been related to the way listings with enhancements are displayed and also giving sellers the option to add additional enhancements to open trades. That being said some changes were also effected due to the fact that some sellers were gaming the system in order to gain unfair exposure for normal listings above other sellers.

 

At present items listed in a normal category that is not part of a promotion like for eg. Crazy Wednesday will display in order of enhancement. So the more enhanced your item is the higher it will rank on the site.

 

The most noticeable change is how items with no enhancements on are ranked. Before we would rank those items according to how close they were to closing and then to when they were created. This meant that some users would list items well in advance for only a short space of time in order to take advantage of how we ranked items.

 

This practice would ensure that they would rank above most other users. Some users were doing it to such an extent that they would list items for only a few hours at a time to make sure that it is closest to closing all the time. This created massive churn on the number of listings we had to process every day, and it had a number of other knock on effects through out the site that effected the user experience.

 

The main issue was that these practices meant that not all sellers were on equal footing any more.

 

In order to level the playing field listings without any enhancements are now randomised in order to ensure that every one has an equal chance of having their items displayed at the top of the regular listing section. It is also important to note that these changes are in effect when the site is viewed through normal browsing and this is not in effect when users perform searches as there we would use the search term as a deciding factor.

 

I hope that this adequately answers your question.

 

Johan

 

Hi Johan

As a matter of interest, I have never listed any item without enhancements

 

But I will give you a practical example of my problem.

 

Say I list ten coins (in the priority category) in the order of their minting date being 1920 to 1929 and I wish them to close in that order 15 minutes after each other as follows on a certain date – say 20 January.

 

Coin 1 dated 1920 must close at 17H00

Coin 2 dated 1921 must close at 17H15

Coin 3 dated 1922 must close at 17H30

Coin 4 dated 1923 must close at 17H45 and so forth...

 

I have done this successfully for many years on BidorBuy

 

But since December it is a moerse gemors (a massive bugger-up)

 

The coins are NOT shown in that order from top to bottom as I intended them to be but are shown/displayed randomly with say coin 4 first, coin 2 last, coin 8 second, etc

All the details are correct (regarding the closing dates and -times) BUT they are not arranged/displayed in date order (starting at 1920 and ending at 1929 from top to bottom) as I intended and how I have listed my coins for many years on BidorBuy.

 

To fix this problem is paramount for sellers like me. What has happened since December will confuse bidders when it comes to items like coins and possibly result in horrifying sales.

Can BidorBuy please reconsider and strive for a win-win situation?

 

Kind regards

 

Pierre

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Vegar

Meaning that if I do not invest in enhancements and continue to list my items for a period of 10 days - my listings might always be at the far pages.

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Pierre_Henri
Hi Pierre,

 

You are correct there has been some changes in the way that listings are displayed.

 

Towards the end of last year we implemented changes that has mainly been related to the way listings with enhancements are displayed and also giving sellers the option to add additional enhancements to open trades. That being said some changes were also effected due to the fact that some sellers were gaming the system in order to gain unfair exposure for normal listings above other sellers.

 

At present items listed in a normal category that is not part of a promotion like for eg. Crazy Wednesday will display in order of enhancement. So the more enhanced your item is the higher it will rank on the site.

 

The most noticeable change is how items with no enhancements on are ranked. Before we would rank those items according to how close they were to closing and then to when they were created. This meant that some users would list items well in advance for only a short space of time in order to take advantage of how we ranked items.

 

This practice would ensure that they would rank above most other users. Some users were doing it to such an extent that they would list items for only a few hours at a time to make sure that it is closest to closing all the time. This created massive churn on the number of listings we had to process every day, and it had a number of other knock on effects through out the site that effected the user experience.

 

The main issue was that these practices meant that not all sellers were on equal footing any more.

 

In order to level the playing field listings without any enhancements are now randomised in order to ensure that every one has an equal chance of having their items displayed at the top of the regular listing section. It is also important to note that these changes are in effect when the site is viewed through normal browsing and this is not in effect when users perform searches as there we would use the search term as a deciding factor.

 

I hope that this adequately answers your question.

 

Johan

 

Maybe you must start punishing those that are in the wrong - the 99.9% that list without enhancements who are manipulating the system.

 

Why on earth must the rest of us who have been carrying BidorBuy for many many years financially (with our enhancement fees amongst others) bear the brunt for the wrongdoings of those that just "ride the system" as hangers on?

 

Here is my input - Randomly arrange the closing date for those NOT paying enhancement fees, but PLEASE reintroduce the old system of "ending in closing date order" for those of us paying enhancement fees -- and actually paying your salaries every month for how many years now ...

 

PLEASE BidorBuy - currently the only ones benefiting from your new system are those sellers you think you are punishing ...

 

Pierre

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Vegar

I have items of similar character and I like them to show up at the same time on the same page ... not possible anymore?? I list them to end at the same time in the same category but now they are strewn all over the place like randomly - mostly on pages 17 to 27 ...

 

Exactly how many people 'play the system'?? 5 or 50 or 500??

 

How many people complained about sellers listing for short periods??

 

How many people are now paying for enhancement as opposed to two months ago before Bidorbuy introduced chaos??

 

How has the short listing periods influenced the site performance?

 

Will I get a response to these questions?

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Pierre_Henri
I have items of similar character and I like them to show up at the same time on the same page ... not possible anymore?? I list them to end at the same time in the same category but now they are strewn all over the place like randomly - mostly on pages 17 to 27 ...

 

Exactly how many people 'play the system'?? 5 or 50 or 500??

 

How many people complained about sellers listing for short periods??

 

How many people are now paying for enhancement as opposed to two months ago before Bidorbuy introduced chaos??

 

How has the short listing periods influenced the site performance?

 

Will I get a response to these questions?

 

I totally agree with you!

 

Here is my input - Randomly arrange listings for those NOT paying enhancement fees, but PLEASE reintroduce the old system of "ending in closing date order" for those of us paying enhancement fees.

 

PLEASE BidorBuy, respond to our concerns and inputs.

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voldermort

 

You are correct there has been some changes in the way that listings are displayed.

 

Towards the end of last year we implemented changes that has mainly been related to the way listings with enhancements are displayed and also giving sellers the option to add additional enhancements to open trades. That being said some changes were also effected due to the fact that some sellers were gaming the system in order to gain unfair exposure for normal listings above other sellers.

 

At present items listed in a normal category that is not part of a promotion like for eg. Crazy Wednesday will display in order of enhancement. So the more enhanced your item is the higher it will rank on the site.

 

The most noticeable change is how items with no enhancements on are ranked. Before we would rank those items according to how close they were to closing and then to when they were created. This meant that some users would list items well in advance for only a short space of time in order to take advantage of how we ranked items.

 

This practice would ensure that they would rank above most other users. Some users were doing it to such an extent that they would list items for only a few hours at a time to make sure that it is closest to closing all the time. This created massive churn on the number of listings we had to process every day, and it had a number of other knock on effects through out the site that effected the user experience.

 

The main issue was that these practices meant that not all sellers were on equal footing any more.

 

In order to level the playing field listings without any enhancements are now randomised in order to ensure that every one has an equal chance of having their items displayed at the top of the regular listing section. It is also important to note that these changes are in effect when the site is viewed through normal browsing and this is not in effect when users perform searches as there we would use the search term as a deciding factor.

 

I hope that this adequately answers your question.

 

Johan

 

Well now since these changes have taken place I have had numerous requests, some from regular buyers, asking me to please send them a list of any new items I have added since they simply cannot find them anymore. I spent literally years on BoB arranging my items to end at certain times - eg: books end at 6pm daily, stamps end at 7pm daily etc......and spending many, many hours listing many, many items so they would be arranged in closing time order. Since these changes came into effect this has basically been swept to the wind because it really makes no difference what times items are closing anymore hence buyers asking me to send them lists of items. Yes, there were complaints about certain sellers flooding certain categories, namely those who have hundreds of thousands of items listed. However what you have now done is to say unless a seller pays for enhancements, he can go play in the traffic.......while at the same time still making sure that those exact same sellers who have hundreds of thousands of items listed, still tend to come up numerous times on each page (yip, I checked) without paying enhancements. And no, I have never seen one of them pay for an enhancement. So to my way of thinking this is basically good for keeping the huge businesses selling on the site, without asking them to pay for enhancements - because their listings are coming up regardless - and making sure that the regular Joe Soap who sells just to keep their head above water, either pays for enhancements or gets squeezed out.

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Vinyl Lady Decals
Well now since these changes have taken place I have had numerous requests, some from regular buyers, asking me to please send them a list of any new items I have added since they simply cannot find them anymore. I spent literally years on BoB arranging my items to end at certain times - eg: books end at 6pm daily, stamps end at 7pm daily etc......and spending many, many hours listing many, many items so they would be arranged in closing time order. Since these changes came into effect this has basically been swept to the wind because it really makes no difference what times items are closing anymore hence buyers asking me to send them lists of items. Yes, there were complaints about certain sellers flooding certain categories, namely those who have hundreds of thousands of items listed. However what you have now done is to say unless a seller pays for enhancements, he can go play in the traffic.......while at the same time still making sure that those exact same sellers who have hundreds of thousands of items listed, still tend to come up numerous times on each page (yip, I checked) without paying enhancements. And no, I have never seen one of them pay for an enhancement. So to my way of thinking this is basically good for keeping the huge businesses selling on the site, without asking them to pay for enhancements - because their listings are coming up regardless - and making sure that the regular Joe Soap who sells just to keep their head above water, either pays for enhancements or gets squeezed out.

 

I agree 100% with this, I do have enhancements on my listings, but not every one, my regular listings are just not being seen at all and as a result, my sales are almost non-existent. My buyers are also complaining they can't find my listings between all the rest. Its starting to look like its pointless to sell on BoB anymore, I might as well put all my effort into my own website as this is becoming a pointless exercise.

 

Please BoB, punish those that are in the wrong and leave us regular normal BoB sellers the way we were, please, please.

 

If you don't, I foresee a loss of smaller sellers to BoB, as all the effort required still results in very few sales if any, especially in the larger categories.

Edited by Vinyl Lady Decals

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Not1CentMore
I agree 100% with this, I do have enhancements on my listings, but not every one, my regular listings are just not being seen at all and as a result, my sales are almost non-existent.

 

Views equal sales. Without views, there are no sales. More advertising / enhancements do not mean, much less guarantee, more sales. One can quickly end up 'buried in red' at the end of the month from advertising / enhancements costs; 'tossing the dice' for 'maybes'.

 

'New and improved'.... not so much. As my G'ma always said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". There may have been a few issues that needed addressed individually or on a smaller scale, but to slap one gigantic 'fix' on the 'whole ball of wax' may prove to cause more harm than not to a lot of folk.

 

Ruthie

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Pierre_Henri
.... There are issues .... that needed addressed individually or on a smaller scale, but to slap one gigantic 'fix' on the 'whole ball of wax' may prove to cause more harm than not to a lot of folk. Ruthie

 

You are so right Ruthie, but why the dead silence from BidorBuy's side?

 

Why don't they reply to this MAJOR concern?

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johan

Hi All,

 

Like Ruthie said views turn into sales and the whole idea was to spread the view evenly between sellers as this was not the case leading up to December.

 

What we were seeing was a dramatic increase of users listing items with very limited lifespans. In some cases we had users listing 10000 plus trades with a lifespan of 30 mins or less relisting all the time which meant that every time a user looked at regular listings in that category they would see the same users trades all the time.

 

This practise effectively meant that who ever wanted their items to have a fair chance of being viewed had to employ the same practice, and many did, which compounded this problem.

 

This effectively meant that for many buyers that they would

 

- See the same item over and over in the same place everyday

- Every time a trade like this would be added to a watch list it would be there for 15 mins before the item would close

- We would bombard users with mails about items closing soon in the watch list because they are all closing soon!

 

The problem was of such a nature that we could not take it up with individuals because we would have to constantly monitor each seller. If we spoke to them about it, they would either do nothing or comply for a short space of time until they see someone else doing the same thing then they would resume the practice.

 

As per the old system if we got everyone to comply and play fairly we would still sit with a system that would in general favour auctions above buy now's. This is because auctions in general run for shorter periods of time than buy now's. If you are a seller who only sells through buy now's you would only have your items ranked closer to the top when it nears it's ending time, which makes no sense as a buy now is up for purchase at any given time not only when it ends like an auction.

 

As the system is a the moment it is more fair to everyone. It is also a system that would help sellers get views who can not afford enhancements, and it penalises listings with artificially shorter times who try to monopolise the top slots in the normal listing section.

 

Sections of bidorbuy that has not been affected by this change.

 

Areas like Crazy Wednesday and Snap Friday still use the old logic as these items are all auctions they all start at the same price and they all have to close before a certain time. So here you will still be able to rank items using closing times.

 

How the ranking works at this point in time:

 

We still rank items due to how enhanced they are so the more enhanced your item is the higher it will rank on the site. Items that have the same number of enhancements are grouped together and are randomised in this section (excluding Promo's like Crazy Wednesday) to ensure that everyone gets a fair chance. If you have no enhancements those listings are randomised to a point that everyone can get to the top and not just according to closing time.

 

Promos like Crazy Wednesday and Snap Fridays work as they always did.

 

We understand that a system change is inconvenient for some, and people had a specific way of doing things that has now changed. Some who have benefited from the old system does not enjoy that any more and we all have had to change. People must also bear in mind that just because a change is not beneficial to some does not mean that it is unfair to all.

 

We have a large and vibrant market place and with thousands of users who are all trying to best each other in being a leader in their particular field or even the whole market place. From time to time we will be forced to make changes to how we index and rank things, we are not unique in this sense.

 

As a business we have to adapt to changes from outside influence whether it is Google that implement an algorithm change the way search results display or if it is vulnerabilities in a system that are exploited.

 

We do not take these changes lightly and we certainly do not implement them to do our sellers harm and we feel that the changes that we have implemented will improve the marketplace and we are already seeing signs of that.

 

Buyers can still when they search for products filter on what is new and what is ending soon in a category or from a seller so if they want to see all the products you have listed that are closing today they can still do it.

 

I hope that this helps and that it goes some way to clear up some concerns.

 

Johan

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Little Miss Muffet

Ebay would not stand for this kind of practice by sellers.They would receive a warning and Poof.

Where is the discipline on Bob ??

If a computer can be programmed to stagger listings then surely this practice by sellers can be monitored by being thrown out by the computer when users list items for short periods of time

Bidorbuy is being forced to change their system by these users.Who is in control here?

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Pierre_Henri

Why must the Good suffer because of the Bad?

 

Hi Johan

 

You are only trying to do your best but with all respect, you do not answer our concerns

 

We are suggesting the following...

 

STOP hurting the top sellers who are paying enhancement fees.

 

START punishing those that are abusing the system.

 

The current system is a dog’s breakfast and a massive EINA to your top sellers.

 

PLEASE reconsider – please!

 

I am sure that you have the technical knowhow to get all your ducks in a row.

 

We must all strive for a win-win situation.

 

PLEASE stop hurting those who work very hard & support BidorBuy every single day of their lives vs. a few bad apples that now seems to rule the roost with their manipulation of the system.

 

Why must the good suffer because of the bad?

 

Pierre

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Vinyl Lady Decals
Hi Johan

 

You are only trying to do your best but with all respect, you do not answer our concerns

 

We are suggesting the following...

 

STOP hurting the top sellers who are paying enhancement fees.

 

START punishing those that are abusing the system.

 

The current system is a dog’s breakfast and a massive EINA to your top sellers.

 

PLEASE reconsider – please!

 

I am sure that you have the technical knowhow to get all your ducks in a row.

 

We must all strive for a win-win situation.

 

PLEASE stop hurting those who work very hard & support BidorBuy every single day of their lives vs. a few bad apples that now seems to rule the roost with their manipulation of the system.

 

Why must the good suffer because of the bad?

 

Pierre

 

I support this 100%

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collectors investments

Hi Johan

 

Ebay has a minimum period of 3 days for fixed priced items , it used to be 7 days.I believe if BidorBuy adopted this it would go a long way to eliminating the problem.

 

Under the old system every seller had their items ranked high up the order when it was near the items closing time.This seems fair to me.You mention that those sellers that mainly listed "BuyitNow were at a disadvantage because their listings were longer & their items were only ranked highly towards the end of the listing.Sellers have the option to list for shorter periods of time (hopefully a minimum of 3 days so as not to lead to the problems mentioned).Having the auctions listed randomly & not according to closing time I believe does not result in better sales.It is human nature to bid at the last moment & to purchase at the last moment (they want to make sure no better deal comes up before the offer expires).Observe any internet auction & you will see most bidding is done in the last time period of that auction.By randomly listing items you are hiding those listings that are ending soon from potential bidders.

 

Going through auctions takes time & by randomly listing auctions potential bidders will never know which auctions they have seen before & which are new.I myself would go through auctions and see what was ending the soonest so as not to miss out on an item that was about to end,

 

If i am misunderstanding the new way BidorBuy runs auctions it would be appreciated if you could explain this to me. BidorBuy like any service provider should listen to the needs of its customers & come up with amicable solutions.

 

Bruce

Edited by collectors_invest

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JacoJ

Good morning everyone

 

You will notice that as of this morning we introduced a small tweak to the sort order of seller listings. In the sellers listing view you will notice that all listings are now ordered based on closing time and we do not apply randomisation in this view. This effectively reverts to the old way of showing seller listings before we introduced randomisation across the various levels of enhancements.

 

So when buyers look at a specific seller's listings they will now see the items in order of closing and we trust this will be helpful for buyers. We still apply randomisation across the site based on the level of enhancements applied to the items.

 

Just to refresh everyone's memory, we do not apply randomisation to Crazy Wednesday, Snap Friday and Weekend Specials as these are generally time based and of short duration in anyway. We believe we have now struck a good balance between Auctions and Buy Nows and their abilities to be seen across the site. And as always when one does a search, we will always favour the most relevant items and do not favour any item above another based on the level of enhancements which means quality will always be favoured.

 

We trust that this will solve a lot of your concerns raised over the last few weeks.

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CardinaJewels

Hi JacoJ

 

Thanks for the update, on another note and I am not sure if it is related to the updates but I have noticed that certain listings the button to copy listing will not work, mostly this seems to be related to certain promotional listings like the valentines special. Hopefully this can be fixed as it makes it a lot of work to remake the listing from scratch

 

Kind Regards

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voldermort
Good morning everyone

 

You will notice that as of this morning we introduced a small tweak to the sort order of seller listings. In the sellers listing view you will notice that all listings are now ordered based on closing time and we do not apply randomisation in this view. This effectively reverts to the old way of showing seller listings before we introduced randomisation across the various levels of enhancements.

 

So when buyers look at a specific seller's listings they will now see the items in order of closing and we trust this will be helpful for buyers. We still apply randomisation across the site based on the level of enhancements applied to the items.

 

 

Just to clarify & apologies if I seem blonde, but I would like to make sure of this - does this mean if a buyer clicks on a sellers name - items that seller is selling will now show up as per normal...ie: in order of closing dates & not with dates scattered all over the place?

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JacoJ
Just to clarify & apologies if I seem blonde, but I would like to make sure of this - does this mean if a buyer clicks on a sellers name - items that seller is selling will now show up as per normal...ie: in order of closing dates & not with dates scattered all over the place?

 

Yes, that is correct. It will be displayed the way it was before we made the changes. It will be ordered on closing date within the parameters of enhancements applied.

 

For example: All the Priority Featured items will be sorted based on closing time. Then the Featured listings will be sorted based on closing time and lastly the Regular items will be sorted based on closing time. In other words exactly the same as in 2013, 2014.

 

Hope that clears up any confusion.

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johan
Hi JacoJ

 

Thanks for the update, on another note and I am not sure if it is related to the updates but I have noticed that certain listings the button to copy listing will not work, mostly this seems to be related to certain promotional listings like the valentines special. Hopefully this can be fixed as it makes it a lot of work to remake the listing from scratch

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Hi CardinaJewels,

 

The trades you are referring to can be copied while they are open as you would have permission to access the category. Once this category is closed as is the case for the Valentines day catalogue you cant copy or edit as you do not have the necessary site permissions to go into those sections.

 

I would suggest that you keep a copy of the items that list for the promo's without any enhancements and promotional category settings. Then it is much easier to have access to workable listings.

 

You will also find in those promotions that if you list in there you will not be able to make the item re list automatically this is to avoid listings breaking when they want to relist in categories that are no longer active.

 

Let me know how many of your trades are affected and I will have a look at what we can do.

 

Regards,

 

Johan

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voldermort
Yes, that is correct. It will be displayed the way it was before we made the changes. It will be ordered on closing date within the parameters of enhancements applied.

 

For example: All the Priority Featured items will be sorted based on closing time. Then the Featured listings will be sorted based on closing time and lastly the Regular items will be sorted based on closing time. In other words exactly the same as in 2013, 2014.

 

Hope that clears up any confusion.

 

Thanks for clarification

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CardinaJewels

 

Let me know how many of your trades are affected and I will have a look at what we can do.

 

Regards,

 

Johan

 

Hi Johan, It is not a lot of trades, i will take your advice to do that in the future, it is not the end of the world right now. Thanks for the clarification although I do find it odd that I cannot copy the trade as regardless the system would not let me relist in a promotional category that is closed, I would have to un-tick that option anyways, I absolutely agree that the listing cannot be edited though

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