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Gemmological Institute of Southern Africa - Gemstone Reports

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alloway65

Hi all,

Nice to see some action again on the Gemstones Thread.:)

I Must say I am very happy with GISA and the excellent service they provide at very managable costs.

I have only been a buyer of Gemstones up to now....and I am thinking of becoming a (hopefully reputable) seller.:cool:

Keep up the good work Luke.;)

David.

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Lukeness

Thanks David, your kind comments are appreciated.

 

I have exactly the same concerns! Even the website is "dodgy" . I am a seller, and am astinished by the "certificates" on the site of some sellers.

 

I'm not sure who's comments you are referring to. If you could tell us your concerns, perhaps we could help clarify any issues.

 

Regards,

 

Luke

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alloway65

Hi Luke,

I think he is referring to the Gemval website and also the home made "valuation certificates" that some Gemstone sellers make themselves.:confused:

Take care

David

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whattingh783

Hi there all.

To be honest I am also quite new with this and Would like to find out some things.

Seeing that there are some senior members in this forum, maybe you can help me.

I recently bought a diamond from the site & did not receive a certificate, I have tried to do some research on the net but I am getting no where. Where in the World can I Take my Diamond for certification except for Dialab in Cape Town and what does it more or less cost?

If the diamond is the same spec as per the advertisement then I did not do a bad deal, but if it is not that spec I might have shot myself in the foot. I only want to find out if i did make a good buy or not.

Plus if it is a case of false advertising on the site I feel that these people should be reported to the site and the necessary organizations so that they don't fool any other new & in-experienced buyers.

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shoron

Hi Whattingh783

 

Send a PM to Lukeness and he would be able to assist.

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whattingh783

Thanks Sharon I will do that!

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dialab

For those who don’t know :

 

Gcal and DiaLab are the only laboratories doing work for governments and forensics of Diamonds and Gems worldwide. If you are going to buy a diamond over 7ct you would want to have one of those certificates.

 

Additionally, DiaLab is the only legal research laboratory that can offer a full “IOFI” fingerprint of your diamond attached to the certificate for audit purposes. Further more DiaLab is CAMS-Regulator certified. . Please visit Diamond and Gem Authentication. for further information.

BN BARETZKY

 

Chairman CAMS-Regulator.

Diamond and Gem Regulator

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dialab

For those who don’t know : Gcal and DiaLab are the only laboratories doing work for governments and forensics of Diamonds and Gems worldwide. If you are going to buy a diamond over 7ct you would want to have one of those certificates. Additionally, DiaLab is the only legal research laboratory that can offer a full “IOFI” fingerprint of your diamond attached to the certificate for audit purposes. Further more DiaLab is CAMS-Regulator certified. . Please visit Diamond and Gem Authentication. for further information.

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Lukeness

Just to be clear, aren't DiaLab and "CAMS-Regular" the same entity? I ask because it seems that both are registered to the same name and share the same address (that of the above poster).

Also, from the information provided by the websites it seems clear that the lab uses FTIR and UV/VIS/NIR spectroscopy to give the so-called “IOFI” fingerprint which appears to just be a fancy legal trade name the lab uses for the test results.

How is this different to most other laboratories using the same technology and equipment to perform tests and quite often more (XRF, RAMAN, SEM, EDXRF, LIBS, LA-ICP-MS, SIM, etc)?

I'm a little perplexed by the statement that "Gcal and DiaLab are the only laboratories doing work for governments and forensics of Diamonds and Gems worldwide". Are you actually openly stating that governments worldwide refuse to work with such esteemed organizations as the GIA, Gem-A, AIGS, GIT etc? These are some of the most famous and well established forces in the market and for the most part define the trade as we know it.

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Filmwaster

More questions than answers...

 

Hello All,

 

I am new to this forum and to bob, but as an interested individual in the world of gemology; I have concerns regarding the "certification" of gemstones by laboratories I have never heard of, let alone am able to verify with a simple Google search.

 

I have, on occasion, perused bob for fine gemstones and have found a cornucopia of delights, but they all look to good to be true. Optimum color, size & quality... on every single stone! They all cannot look that good, so I decided to look each lab up online.

 

I did not get a single hit after a simple search, so I then did a more exhaustive one for the Gemmology Institute of Southern Africa, African Gem Society, and Gemmological Society of South Africa, but to no avail; I NOT one website or other important information about them! Now, I do not wish to be viewed as a "troll" for my questions, but something is clearly not right!

 

This and the disturbing thought that a 'known and respected" gem lab is sharing subject photos, is just short of unbelievable! Perhaps this is the norm in SA, but globally, every major lab on the planet simply does NOT do this! However, I do have to admit, I did find one lab that was reusing the same diamond image repeatedly for a specific quality, but once discovered and identified to management, it came to an abrupt end. So, I guess no one is infallible.

 

Going forward, I would like to extend an invitation to anyone who has the correct URL address for each of the three aforementioned organizations, to contact me here on the forum, so I may find out more about their services & perhaps submit some stones.

 

Obviously, we as consumers have to be ever vigilant, because professionalism & credibility are so important in a trade that is often wrought with unscrupulous people and/or dealers.

 

I also invite further discussion.

 

I remain,

Filmwaster

Edited by Filmwaster
Grammer.

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Lukeness

I have to wonder if you were even online when you did your search or you are simply here to troll. A quick google search gives thousands of results, the first of which is a link to GISA's website. Try a little harder next time...

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Colin_P

Are you aware that google tailors the search results to each individual, and that it's possible (actually probable) that the results of the same search made by two different people will yield different results?

 

Having said that I did a quick google search on "Gemmology Institute of Southern Africa", "African Gem Society" and "Gemmological Society of South Africa", and only got a hit from "Gemmology Institute of Southern Africa", the other two didn't come back with any links that were directly related to the organisations in question. On the first search, the first three were links to various pages on http://www.gemmology.co.za. The fifth was a link to a linkedin page, and the fourth was a link to this thread :-)

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Lukeness

I'm sure that's hardly surprising since Google rankings will be based on the relevance and popularity of the pages.

That said, when I do a search, it comes up with more than 44,000 results. While the search results will differ between individuals, the likelihood of not getting a single hit is, at the very least, rather slim.

Neither the "African Gem Society" nor the "Gemmological Society of South Africa" are, or ever have been, laboratories, so their relevance in this search is somewhat questionable.

I'm also not sure why the fact that we we provide our customers with photographs is a problem. I wasn't aware that giving good service was an issue. Most labs do not have photographs on their reports at all.

GISA has been active for quite a few years and our continued support from customers all over the country attests to the quality of our services.

As to all stones looking too good, well that is simply not true. However, because having your gems examined costs money, most choose only to have their better gems done; especially when for resale. So it makes sense that you are seeing predominantly good-quality stones, but they are certainly not the only ones.

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Colin_P
That said, when I do a search, it comes up with more than 44,000 results. While the search results will differ between individuals, the likelihood of not getting a single hit is, at the very least, rather slim.

 

I too got thousands of results. However they were results where the individual words were found in different combinations and were not specific hits for either the African Gem Society or the Gemmological Society of South Africa, which is why I said there were no hits. I'm pretty sure that Filmwaster is using a similar definition of the word "hits" to the one I use.

 

All I was doing was offering a different perspective on the searches done. I don't know what either of the three organisations I searched do, and nor do I care, I have no interest in gems, and came across this thread almost by accident. The only reason I bothered doing the searches is because my results were unlikely to be skewed by previous searches, and I was interested to see how they might differ from those obtained by someone whose searches were likely to be heavily affected by their profession / hobby of gem collecting.

 

And Luke, as an outsider, reading this thread in it's entirety, to me, you come across as both abrasive and defensive. And no, that's not criticism, nor is it a personal attack, that's constructive feedback.

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MoonlightGems

Dear Lukeness

I wanted to have gemstones certified by you, but you told me that I should have at least 200 gemstones before you can do that. Now I wonder, because I see people advertising stuff that they haven't even bought, and then say it will be accompanied by a GISA report. I bought a ring from one such a person, paid 10 000 for it, waited three months for it, the GISA report said the value was 78000. I subsequently had the ring valued by my jeweller who said it is worth only about R8000.00. Then I found the website where this lady bought the ring, and she paid about 68$ for it, this website said the ring is worth 78000, and the picture as well as the gemstone valuation was the same on the GISA report. Can you clear this up for me please? I would especially want to know why one should have 200 gemstones before you can issue a report. Is it perhaps that some sellers has exclusive access to you and your grading reports? More of us would like to use you, and some of us starts off small, and I am wondering why we can't have access to your services, and also have you in fact seen the ring you valued at 78000, and were you in any way influenced by the seller telling you what the value of the ring was?

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Lukeness

Dear MoonlightGems,

The minimum quantity of reports is purely because, right now the administration and some other aspects of the smaller orders take up a lot of time, which requires increased staffing to fulfill, and is not cost-effective. Because of this, we took a decision to limit our clients to members of the trade. The 200 minimum only applies to the first order and is a why of limiting the customer base to genuine members of the trade. However, if you are looking at ongoing business we would, of course, not want to turn your business away. Feel free to send me an email in that regard. We are also looking a changing this limit soon, as the market stabilizes.

As to the rest. We only issue reports on items which we have had in our possession and examined. On the website where the ring was bought: I have no idea where or from whom it was bought. If, like is often the case with listings, it is an item that itself was bought on auction, then the low price would be plain good luck. Sellers buy items from wholesalers, so there may be hundreds of similar items, all at different prices, and probably not the exact one you purchased. But, since I don't know where it came from, I'd prefer not to comment further.

If suppliers have professional photographs, which accurately depict their items, they can submit them for usage on their report.

As the what was said by your jeweller, was this what they offered to pay you? I'm sure you don't expect them to pay you full retail value.

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alloway65

I used GISA a few times in the past for batches of about 20 Gemstones each and was more than satisfied with the prompt & courteous service provided as well as their pricing and certification results.

 

I was also disappointed when a few weeks ago I discovered that GISA only accepts large tranches of stones for certification. This is sad as the man in the street has no other reasonably priced alternative to have their Gemstones certified locally.

 

This being said we all run our own businesses to certain business models such to make a reasonable profit as well as to provide a proficient & hopefully personal service.

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Lukeness

Thank you for the kind words.

Just to clarify, limiting submissions is a temporary arrangement. Hopefully, within the very near future, submissions of all sizes will be welcome again. Also, the limitation dies not apply to existing clients and applies to new business only.

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MoonlightGems

Thank you so much for that clear and inciteful answer Lukeness. I have read nothing but good things about you, and I am sure you are a man of your word, and that you have the necessary qualifications for doing this kind of certifications, and I will definitely be interested in making use of your services. I will email you in this regard. It is sometimes embarrassing to tell people that you don't know if a gemstone is natural, treated or untreated, because we don't have access to your service. I thank you from the bottom of my heart, will be in touch shortly.

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Toyah NatalieLord66

Hi Luke,

 

How could I get in contact with you or a Registered Gemologist Appraiser who specialises in natural pearls?

 

Thank you

Toyah

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Lukeness

Hi Toyah,

I've just sent a reply to the email you sent with details.

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RISadler

How do you determine the "estimated retail value" of the gems, as stated on the certificates?

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Lukeness

Estimated retail values are calculated using a continuously updated database of retail pricing at actual retail outlets, as well as using internationally accepted pricing lists and formulas.

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RISadler

Care to share?

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doemelak

HI LUKENESS, i recently bought a diamond ring from a dealer over the internet with a cert, from gisa dated 04-09-2015,my concern is she said that she has send the ring to you on the 20th of sept.for certification, so how do i know if the cert.that i got is the cert. for the diamond that i bought. please post a sample of your cert, so we can see if we do not get fake cert,because the cert, that i got does not look nearly as professional as a GIA cert.thanks doemelak ps. is there a number on the diamond that must correspond with the number on your cert.?

Edited by doemelak

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