Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
KahlilG

Companhia do nayssa 1894 500 reis

Recommended Posts

KahlilG

Can anyone reading the coins and notes forum maybe assist with this token? What I have established to date is,that it is from Mozambique. Information on Mozambique tokens is also very limited.

 

Regards,

Charl

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre_Henri
Can anyone reading the coins and notes forum maybe assist with this token? What I have established to date is,that it is from Mozambique. Information on Mozambique tokens is also very limited.

 

Regards,

Charl

 

Hern number 394b cataloguing at R60 000.

 

Fetched 990 GB Pounds in 1991 on auction

 

A very scarce token - well done.

 

Pierre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KahlilG
Can anyone reading the coins and notes forum maybe assist with this token? What I have established to date is,that it is from Mozambique. Information on Mozambique tokens is also very limited.

 

Regards,

Charl

 

Pierre,

 

Do you have the particulars of that auction?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre_Henri

No, but I am sure Allyn Jacobs will have - I think it was he that translated the original book on Mozambique tokens into English (Publication in Portuguese by Carlos Pascoal and Jamie Salgado (1990) "Fichas Colonais Portuguesas" - Portuguese Colonial Tokens").

 

See also here

 

 

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?term=Nyassa&category=1-2&en=1&de=1&fr=1&it=1&es=1&ot=1&images=1&currency=usd&order=0&company

 

and maybe someone that speaks English on this forum group can assist you

 

http://www.forum-numismatica.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=19531

 

Regards

 

Pierre

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
coinoisseur

Hi

 

I agree with Pierre, these tokens are scarce. But in saying so, they are a specialized collecting area like South West Africa which forms part of the South African Token series. These tokens came from Lisbon and were never used. They were withdrawn, and all supposedly destroyed. Being a scarce token, I do not agree with the price the token is catalogued at seeing that it was never used. Serious token collectors are few in South Africa and you can count them on your finger tips. This is a brief history of the company from a document I received on it.

 

Companhia do Niassa was an International Trade Company based in the Portuguese Colony of Mozambique then know as Portuguese East Africa between 1890 and 1929 that had the concession of land. Portugal lacked capital to colonize Mozambique, so it leased the country and its people to others. By 1891 one third of the country was handed over to three British companies, the Mozambique Company the Zambezi Company and the Niassa Company. Although founded by Bernard Daupais, a merchant from Lisbon, the Niassa Company was owned by British and French interests. The company was granted a charter by the Portuguese government to establish economic development and maintain Portuguese control in Niassa Province and Cabo Delgado and was officially incorporated in March 1893. The territory of the Niassa Company covered the north of Mozambique, above the river Lurio. In 1904 the Niassa Company founded the town Porto Amélia, which is presently known as Pemba and Porto Amélia became the headquarters of the company. The power of the Niassa Company was based on the chibalo system, a forced labor policy, which forced the Mozambicans to work on plantations, cotton fields and on public works projects. Additionally Mozambicans were forced to pay hut taxes that kept them in debt. The chibalo system enabled the Niassa Company to establish plantations and to force peasants to work for them and prevent them from growing their own crops for sale. The company lost its purpose when its territory was transferred to the control of the Portuguese colonial government on 27 October 1929 after the government refused to grant an extension of its concession. Although one of its main obligations was to create light houses along the Mozambican Coast, the Niassa Company fell short of this goal.

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre_Henri
Hi

 

I agree with Pierre, these tokens are scarce. But in saying so, they are a specialized collecting area like South West Africa which forms part of the South African Token series. These tokens came from Lisbon and were never used. They were withdrawn, and all supposedly destroyed. Being a scarce token, I do not agree with the price the token is catalogued at seeing that it was never used.

Cheers

 

That is some food for thought but some might disagree with you. For example, the Burgerspond and Veldpond as well as the Griqua series saw very little circulation (I sometimes wonder if any Burgerspond ever saw true circulation) and the patterns in the Bakewell collection saw none - but I don think that affects their price per se.

 

I wish Allyn Jacobs or Steve van Rensburg can jump in here and help us out.

 

Pierre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
coinoisseur

Maybe I need to clarify my statement..... It is a scarce token but not R60,000 scarce... Half the catalogue price is more realistic to me... Thats only my opinion and I could be totally wrong :grin:

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
coinoisseur

I wish Allyn Jacobs or Steve van Rensburg can jump in here and help us out.

Pierre

 

Pierre I am sure you mean Steve van Niekerk ?

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre_Henri
Pierre I am sure you mean Steve van Niekerk ?

 

Cheers

 

Yes, sorry

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jwither
That is some food for thought but some might disagree with you. For example, the Burgerspond and Veldpond as well as the Griqua series saw very little circulation (I sometimes wonder if any Burgerspond ever saw true circulation) and the patterns in the Bakewell collection saw none - but I don think that affects their price per se.

 

I wish Allyn Jacobs or Steve van Rensburg can jump in here and help us out.

 

Pierre

 

The amount of circulation or lack of it has essentially nothing to do with the relative prices of these items. Notice I used the terminology "items" here because some who have posted here in the past (who will remain nameless for now) have argued that what most consider tokens were/are actually coins and should be viewed as such. I presume that the motive for this position is because those who own them want them to be worth more because I sure cannot think of another since the distinction is otherwise irrelevant.

 

In any event, the primary reason the Burgess Pond and the pre-Union "patterns" are worth so much more (considering scarcity) is because they are listed in the Hern and Krause guides as coins and therefore, included in the definition of a complete set. The tokens are not and it is what it is whether those who prefer otherwise want it to be or not.

 

There is nothing unusual in this outcome at all either. To use a few examples from the United States, the 1879 Flowing Hair Stella ($4 gold) is actually a common pattern with a reported mintage of 400 making it a low R-3 on the Judd rarity scale. It regularly sells for over $100,000 and far more than scarcer patterns and the best explanation for this price is because it is included in the 'Red Book" and collected as part of a "type set".

 

There are also numerous tokens included in the "Red Book" under the colonial coinage section. I presume that there are many others which circulated concurrently that are probably scarcer or much scarcer but sell for less (at least considering scarcity) and for the same reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre_Henri

His Masters Voice ...

 

How can I delete anything if get e-mails like this from a true master?

 

Dear Pierre~ Greetings !

 

I understand you were looking for details of the auction of two Nyassa Company silver tokens held way back in 1991.

It was a Spink Auction held on Monday 14 October 1991 and it was the second part of the R J Ford collection of British Colonial coins of Africa and the Indian Ocean. It was the prices realized for these two pieces that prompted Brian to list them at the prices he did in his pioneering catalogue in 2004. But more of that anon.

 

Let me give you the listings as they appear in the catalogue :

 

Lot 402 : Nyassa Company (Companhia do Nyassa,Cabo Delgado), Mozambique, 1000-Reis 1894H silver, both obv.and rev.

With tower, MIL REIS (vertically) at sides, COMPANHIA DO NYASSA, CABO DELGADO1894 around, Edge milled (Sweeney, p.189) Slightly tarnished on one side, brilliant,noted as only 2 known

 

Ex Heaton Mint, Birmingham,Collection. ESTIMATE : £4000-5000

 

Note : In 1894 the Companhia do Nyassa was given a charter by the Lisbon Government to administer The northern end of Mozambique,Nyassa and Cabo Delgado being the northernmost provinces.

 

No further issues were struck, despite the fact that the charter remained in force until 1929.

 

Lot 403: Nyassa Company 500-Reis, 1894H silver, types similar, edgemilled. Little glue adhering, brilliant, excessively rare

Ex Heaton Mint, Birmingham,Collection. ESTIMATE : £800-1000.Lots 404 and 405 were the commoner 20-Reis and 10-Reis pieces

 

Prices realized were £3700 (+10%) and £90 (+10%). The 20 and 10 fetched £130+ and £110+ respectively.

Harking back to Hern’s 2004 prices (and ignoring then nonsensical F & VF prices) he set the 1000-Reis at R80,000 and the

500-Reis at an inexplicable RR60,00. As you know in the updated 2009 edition there is less of a disparity with the prices being R150,000 and a retained R60,000.

 

Granted these are listed as for VF specimens. On that score, when we worked on theRevised edition I was able to persuade Brian to scrap the3-tier system of F, VF and EF in favour of a single price guide for VF specimens. Tokens for the most part seldom turn up in better than a strict VF, and the understanding obviously was that specimens in more pleasing condition would merit a premium.

I believe there has also been some discussion as to whether a price of R60,000 is reasonable or not.

 

What is “reasonable” when it comes to price??

 

I think it is the price you are happy to pay to acquire a coin or token that pleases you, IRRESPECTIVE of its market value. I speak of course purely as a collector, rather than an investor or speculator. As you know I probably hold the record for the highest prices paid locally for tokens ~ Blood River,R19 500 ; Tati Company R25,050 (catalogue R5 550) ; Creighton& Dennis, R19 500 (catalogue R6 000) and St Faiths R40 500 (catalogue R7 000)

I don’t know where the token in question came from or whether it was listed on BidorBuy, but I was offered a similar piece fairly recently

by a Johannesburgdealer (highly likely the same piece). Normally I can resist anything but temptation, but in this instance I had no

difficulty in turning a deaf ear and a blind eye to his suggestion that Seventy-Five would be a fair price. Quite honestly, even at half that

price I would have hesitated and probably declined.

You may also like to know that three years ago when I visited a friend who lives on the Algarve,one of the co-authors of the catalogue of

Portuguese Colonial coins, Jaime Salgado, motored all the way down from Lisbon to spend a day with me. And what a day that was !

 

And to Complete the picture, only a month ago his other half, Carlos Pascoal, spent a day with me here at home ! I feel very privileged indeed. Pierre, if the gent who purchased this very special token is known to you, please feel free to give him my address, especially if, as I hope, he is a collector.

 

I really do enjoy being in touch with fellow collectors,especially as we lack a platform where we can come together and chat and share what we know.

 

Forgive me for chattering on and on ~ this was meant to be a short note. Do hope this finds you well.

 

Kindest regards,

 

Allyn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
coinoisseur

I have in my possession what I consider to be unique. It is an unlisted Companhia do Nyassa - Cabo Delgado 500 Reis 1894. It is the only know example and I would assume that it is a trial strike done by the Heaton Mint for the silver variety.

 

Cheers

image.jpg.9bacb2553284926fb9da318ec4da3720.jpg

image.jpg.907588031dfc0a94c35eb654ef67057c.jpg

Edited by Coinoisseur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pierre_Henri
I have in my possession what I consider to be unique. It is an unlisted Companhia do Nyassa - Cabo Delgado 500 Reis 1894. It is the only know example and I would assume that it is a trial strike done by the Heaton Mint for the silver variety.

 

Cheers

 

Hi Anthony

 

These two lots are probably the same item and the one you own now? -

 

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1340684

 

http://www.acsearch.info/search.html?id=1695580

 

Regards

 

Pierre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×