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ImportSales

How do I determine the approximate value of a 2008 Nelson Mandela R5 coin?

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ImportSales

Hi everyone,

 

I have a friend that owns a 2008 Nelson Mandela 90th Birthday commemorative R5 coin.

 

He asked me if I can find out the approximate current worth of this coin as he is looking to sell it. From what I've read it looks like the prices can vary hugely.

 

How do I determine even just an approximate worth for this coin? What are the things to take into account when determining value?

 

What is the best way to sell this coin? Obviously I'm thinking of listing it on BoB but is this the best way?

 

I know very little about the subject so I am basically clueless as to the best procedure to follow here.

 

Thanks for any helpful advice you can provide.

 

Please let me know if you require any additional info. I was not sure what to list here.

 

Regards,

 

John

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RISadler

On the obverse of the coin there is a large number next to a big capital letter R ... which should be a five. This means that the coin is "worth" five rands as legal tender at any shop in South Africa. I do not know what the metal that it is made out of is worth ... probably about sixty cents, I'd guess.

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ImportSales
On the obverse of the coin there is a large number next to a big capital letter R ... which should be a five. This means that the coin is "worth" five rands as legal tender at any shop in South Africa. I do not know what the metal that it is made out of is worth ... probably about sixty cents, I'd guess.

 

Hi RISadler,

 

Wow!! Thank you so much for your very valuable advice. Much appreciated. If only every person online would learn from your example. The level of detail in your wonderfully kind response should be used as a guideline in how everyone should respond to those seeking advice on any forum and even in life itself. I'm sure everybody just loves getting advice and wisdom from your wealth of knowledge on any subject. Bravo to you. I am richer today because of your input and can sleep tonight knowing there are still people like you in the world. I truly wish I could thank you for your response in person. Oh what a great moment that would be. Again... Thanks. Seriously :wtf:

 

Since you're so incredibly knowledgeable on the subject would you say the following coins are worth R5...

 

(Listed here on BoB right now)

 

1.) R19,999.00 - NEW LABEL *PF69UC** 2008 MANDELA 90TH BIRTHDAY R5 COIN --*MIRRORED* -*PF69 ULTRA CAMEO* - NGC GRADED

2.) R25,000.00 - NELSON MANDELA BIRTHDAY NGC PROOF PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO - 2008 R5 Coin - FREE WORLDWIDE COURIER SHIPPING

3.) R22,500.00 - Mandela Birthday PF69 Ultra Cameo - includes wooden display case

 

or even

 

4.)R750.00 - *** MS 62 *** - NELSON MANDELA 90th BIRTHDAY R5 - NGC GRADED - COMPLETE YOUR SET!! NICE!! #FSC

 

Also, what about...

 

The uncirculated rare R5 Mandela 90th birthday coin, in the grade of MS-69, that sold for R2.5 million and the sale of a proof 70 that sold for R275 000. Why did they not sell for R5? Why do the coins listed here on BoB not sell for R5?

 

Also (stated in 2012) "according to Mark T. Andersen of SA Coins, the company is projecting that proof 70 birthday Mandela coins will sell for R500 000 at the end of the year (2012) and for R1 million by the end of 2013, with the proof 69 birthday Mandela coins selling at R100 000 by the end of 2012".

 

Do you think when these coins are graded by PCGS, NGC and ANACS that they are obviously delusional for adding a value higher than R5 for these coins? Perhaps you could enlighten them?

 

At the same time, let's say someone owns a full set of the following coins...

 

1.) Mint State R5 1994 Inauguration Coin

2.) Proof R5 1994 Coin

3.) Mint State R5 Mandela Presidential 2000 Coin

4.) Proof R5 Mandela 2000 Coin

5.) 90th Birthday R5 Mandela Mint State Coin

6.) Proof 90th Birthday R5 Mandela Coin

7.) Mint State R5 90th Anniversary Reserve Bank Commemorative

8.) Proof 5 90th Anniversary Reserve Bank Commemorative

 

Would you say that the above would be worth R40? After all, they are all R5 coins.

 

I'm sure your next response would be even more amazing than your first. I have even called some friends over so that we can enjoy your incredibly knowledgeable response together. I've already thanked you twice but I feel compelled to "THANK YOU" a 3rd time. Thank you RISadler.

 

Maybe we can meet one day soon and become the very best of friends.

 

Regards,

 

John

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Colin_P
Hi RISadler,

 

Wow!! Thank you so much for your very valuable advice. Much appreciated. If only every person online would learn from your example. The level of detail in your wonderfully kind response should be used as a guideline in how everyone should respond to those seeking advice on any forum and even in life itself. I'm sure everybody just loves getting advice and wisdom from your wealth of knowledge on any subject. Bravo to you. I am richer today because of your input and can sleep tonight knowing there are still people like you in the world. I truly wish I could thank you for your response in person. Oh what a great moment that would be. Again... Thanks. Seriously :wtf:

 

Made sense to me.

 

 

Since you're so incredibly knowledgeable on the subject would you say the following coins are worth R5...

 

(Listed here on BoB right now)

 

1.) R19,999.00 - NEW LABEL *PF69UC** 2008 MANDELA 90TH BIRTHDAY R5 COIN --*MIRRORED* -*PF69 ULTRA CAMEO* - NGC GRADED

2.) R25,000.00 - NELSON MANDELA BIRTHDAY NGC PROOF PF 69 ULTRA CAMEO - 2008 R5 Coin - FREE WORLDWIDE COURIER SHIPPING

3.) R22,500.00 - Mandela Birthday PF69 Ultra Cameo - includes wooden display case

 

or even

 

4.)R750.00 - *** MS 62 *** - NELSON MANDELA 90th BIRTHDAY R5 - NGC GRADED - COMPLETE YOUR SET!! NICE!! #FSC

 

Also, what about...

 

The uncirculated rare R5 Mandela 90th birthday coin, in the grade of MS-69, that sold for R2.5 million and the sale of a proof 70 that sold for R275 000. Why did they not sell for R5? Why do the coins listed here on BoB not sell for R5?

 

They don't sell for R5 because the buyers don't have a clue what they are doing?

 

I have a question for you, on a related topic:- Why do people still fall for 419 scams?

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RISadler
Would you say that the above would be worth R40? After all, they are all R5 coins.

 

Although a few of those coins might have a metal value higher than five rand ... yip, as a whole they're worth forty bucks in legal tender. (Note the phrase "in legal tender". I used a similar phrase in my original post.)

 

Do you think when these coins are graded by PCGS, NGC and ANACS that they are obviously delusional for adding a value higher than R5 for these coins?

 

Grading companies only grade the coins. They do not determine the value. It is exclusively the buyers who decide how much money they are willing to pay for a certain coin of a certain grade ... although said buyers are heavily influenced by catalogues and advertising, so the decision is rarely a rational one.

 

But look at this issue objectively. If your friend's R5 coin is really worth anything other than five rands, then he MUST be able to sell it to any "coin shop" at "catalogue value" minus 25% (or more, as catalogues usually list the selling price and not the buying price ... oh, plus VAT ... oh-oh, and your friend must also factor in CGT for himself at 20%). Basically and bottom line, if he can't sell it at that price, then the coin is NOT worth what everyone says it is worth ... apart from me, who says it is worth just five rands in legal tender.

 

Oh, that points out something else ... capital gains tax (CGT), VAT and commissions make coins a pretty bad investment on the whole, in my not-so-humble opinion. Personally, I would rather buy SAB or Naspers shares ... at least they declare nice dividends every few months. But a coin just sits there in its little plastic slab doing nothing. You can't retire on its value, because until you actually sell it, it has no value - in fact, it costs you money every month in insurance premiums. You can't even fondle it, because that will lower its resale "value". Reality sucks. :awesome:

 

I'm sure your next response would be even more amazing than your first.

 

And was it? Was it? Was it?

 

Look, honestly, sell the coin for what you can get for it ... pick a price and ask it ... for sheep are there to be sheared.

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Mad about Jack

RISadler I enjoy your wit.

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jwither

Let me give a you a serious response.

 

If the coin is not graded, it is worth exactly 5R because the supposed "value" in the examples you gave is only in the plastic holder and not the coin. This coin which has a mintage of either 5MM (according to the SA Coin Co.) or 22MM (per another source I read) is as common as a grain of sand on the beach. NGC and PCGS have graded over 200,000 and practically every one ever made is currently eligible for an MS grade.

 

Ignore the self serving comments from Mark Anderson and the South African Coin Co. The quote you used is obviously dated, but he just made those prices up. These coins reached and still fetch absurd prices not because of their "rarity", but because of the prior mania which is still deflating. Even as an MS-68, the coin is not "rare". NGC and PCGS have awarded this grade 223 TIMES which is a higher count than practically any ZAR or Union coin in any grade.

 

I don't believe there are many real collectors of this coin because there aren't that many collectors of RSA. I suspect that there are somewhat more for the 1994, 2000 and 2008 than others because they are probably disproportionately owned by the majority population who do not collect coins generally but still nowhere near the actual supply. The vast majority of buyers and current owners are speculators, not real collectors. Ultimately, I expect all but the MS-69 to sell for a nominal price and the buyer who paid R2.5MM for that MS-69 to lose at least 99% of their "investment". Even at R25,000, it would still be one of the most overpriced coins in the world.

Edited by jwither

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RISadler

There is actually a flipside to this whole Mandela-coin craze: Many, many FDC #6.3c's were destroyed by numismatists, which lowers the available population of said FDC for philatelists, which thus in turn increases the value of this FDC. (Anybody wanna buy mine, which I bought in 1994 from the PO at "retail" price?)

Edited by RISadler

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RISadler
RISadler I enjoy your wit.

 

Thanks.

 

I also want to say that IMHO the answer by John (ImportSales, post #3) was pure gold. He kept his cool and pulled off the sarcasm perfectly. I'd even go so far as to say that there is a real master of the art. Well done.

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Mad about Jack

One of the best forum threads in awhile.

Edited by Mad about Jack

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kyle2

This has to be one of the most entertaining threads I've read in a while, everybody made their point without Flaming the next guy too much.:toung:

As far as the R5 'Tokens' go, its only worth what a buyer is prepared to pay for it.

Anything more than its original purchase price of R5 (from Banks) or R50 (from the mint) is a bonus.:sneaky:

This of course excludes Proof coins (These coins have Frosting on the high points) which are where the true collection value should be. IMHO.

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geejay50
One of the best forum threads in awhile.

 

For sure, havent laughed so much about a coin topic in years !!! I love the 'big number next to the capital letter R' and the sixty cents metal value - that is priceless- Trevor Noah take note !!

 

Not funny for the poor gullible Mandela believers though.... although they have been warned. Voltaire said in the 1700s "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere". Even so we still have derivatives of the "Mandela Brand" in gold being minted and sold for multiples of gold price. They are running a bit thin on topics though but not the inflated prices asked.The moral high ground that existed during the struggle has been exploited by people who have only greed at heart unfortunately, but I sense that their petrol is running on empty.

 

I have never heard of any of them actually investing their ill gotten gains into say social upliftment in the spirit of what they are cynically selling.

 

Geejay

 

Edited by geejay50

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