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Ilya2005

BOB Playing Games With Honest Feedback

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Ilya2005

On 21 Feb, 2014, I purchased what was advertised as a "genuine sapphire" from Dennis Vorster on BOB. The total cost was R3370, which included shipping. I paid immediately with my American Express card through PayPal. I received what was supposed to be that "genuine sapphire" in the post. I had asked Mr. Vorster a question about the genuineness of the stone on BOB prior to bidding and was assured that it was genuine.

 

After I received the "stone", I sent it to AGL/American Gem Labs in New York City for certification. AGL sent the stone back with the "certification" that the stone was a "synthetic spinel". In other words, it was a piece of junk.

 

I notified both Mr. Vorster and BOB that the stone was a fake. They both requested that I send them a Xerox of the AGL synthetic cert...which I did. To date, I have received NOTHING from Mr. Vorster and no help from BOB in getting this matter resolved. Here's where BOB began playing games:

 

I left appropriate negative feedback for Dennis Vorster. He complained that his "customers might see that as a negative." So, he complained to BOB and said the sale was an SNC...a sale not completed! Then, BOB took down the negative rating...saying that it was a "sale not completed". WHAT???

 

I paid for the item, Mr. Vorster received his money and I received the fake gem. How in the hell is that a "sale not completed"? BOB is playing games with honest feedback. They deleted the honest negative feedback and said that a sale that WAS completed is suddenly a "sale NOT completed".

 

So, apparently, BOB plays games with feedback. You just can't trust them. I've certainly stopped buying through BOB and will now buy directly from the sellers in S.A. whom I can trust...bypassing completely BOB.

 

Ily2005

Edited by qball
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qball

First of all we don't play games with feedback. As part of the SNC process (which is initiated by the seller, not bidorbuy), we remove the ratings until we can determine who is at fault. We have to give both buyer and seller a fair opportunity to respond to the issue - you have appealed and we are busy looking into it. Should the seller be found at fault the rating will be re-instated. We have restricted the SNC until we can determine who is at fault.

 

Regarding the investigation, this takes time. Bennet is busy with the issue and has received your AGL report. He will also be in touch with the seller to get feedback, but this process does take time as this may not be the only matter we are currently dealing with.

 

We ask that you be patient and would appreciate your continued co-operation and understanding.

 

Thank you.

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Ilya2005

As they say in law, "ipso res loquitur"...the thing speaks for itself. I have supplied rock-solid proof of the duplicity of Mr. Vorster in this matter. I have supplied BOB with both the AGL cert showing that the "sapphire" is, in fact, a synthetic plus the worthless guarantee from Mr. Vorster alleging that the stone is genuine. In fact, the stone is a fake.

 

What kind of investigation must one conduct considering that I have supplied you with every document that you requested? What other conclusion can I draw except that I have been duped and the seller refuses to reimburse me for my purchase?

 

He now claims that he will "reimburse me if the gem returned is the same as sent." In the name of ***...how is claiming R3370 to be returned "maybe" and security? I paid Mr. Voster before he sent the fake gem to me; all I ask is parity. Let him repay me and the gem will be returned so he can be reimbursed. If I send him the gem plus the AGL cert showing it is synthetic, I have no leverage.

 

In the meantime...while BOB dithers...I'd warn anyone purchasing a "gem" from Mr. Voster to get a REAL certification on that gem...GISA is great,,,not buy from Mr, Voster at all...or, do what I do: purchase from reputable BOB sellers such as Bounty Hunter, Coins By Mail or others. They don't sell crap as genuine and they are responsible sellers.

 

>>tick, tock<< BOB...everyone is waiting for you to do the right thing...

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qball

The seller has responded and is very willing to refund you, but the item must be returned, as he will also now have a claim against the seller he bought it from, but he will require the return of the stone.

 

As I have stated we are busy with this matter, you will need to be patient.

 

Please also follow the forum rules and do not post duplicate threads.

 

Thank you.

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Ilya2005

We'll See

 

The seller has responded and is very willing to refund you, but the item must be returned, as he will also now have a claim against the seller he bought it from, but he will require the return of the stone.

 

As I have stated we are busy with this matter, you will need to be patient.

 

Please also follow the forum rules and do not post duplicate threads.

 

Thank you.

 

OK...fine...

 

I'll return the fake gem which is exactly what was sent to me plus the fake gem guarantee from Mr. Vorster plus the fake gem certificate from AGL/American Gem Labs. I'm not holding my breath, however. Mr. Vorster has stated "I do not have a problem refunding him once I receive the stone back and it is verified that the stone he actually is sending back is the one that he received. My supplier agrees to refunding as well once we receive the stone and a certified copy of the AGL report"

 

So, no, I don't have any confidence that Mr. Vorster is a man of honor or honesty. Therefore, my confidence in BOB has been diminished, as well.

 

By dithering and failing to address this travesty immediately, your other sellers on BOB are far less likely to have me as a buyer and I'll be less likely to recommend BOB to any of my gem dealers/partners here in the States.

 

And, once again, I'd warn any potential buyers of gems on BOB...whether from Dennis Vorster or others...to make SURE That the gems in question are indeed genuine. Having a GISA certificate of authenticity is now the only way I'd buy ANY gem on BOB today. There are too many fakes out there being sold on BOB and too few honest sellers.

 

Ilya2005

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Miss Jewels

Hello Ilya2005

I can understand your utter frustration in this matter as I too have been sold "natural" sapphires, only to having being told they're synthetic! I bought quite a lot of "natural sapphires" from a seller on BoB during the past 2 years. I collected these stones with the idea of having them set in my own designs. When I took them to the manufacturing jeweler (who happens to manufacture the Foschini group rings) he could tell by looking under a loop that the stones were synthetic. This being said, the stones were diffused. The seller claimes that diffused stones are natural, but the manufacturer informed me that would I apply for a valuation certificate from him, he would have to state "synthetic" on the report.

I have the utmost respect for this man and his company and now take all my stones to him. He also does the manufacturing and setting of all my own designer jewelery.

Not all sellers are dishonest (intentially dishonest incl), and there are a lot of sellers who would go out of their way to assist a potential buyer. I am sure that, in the future, you will have more positive than unhappy transactions, and can assure you that to date, BoB has only been professional and helpful in the many times I have dealt with them.

Hopefully we will see you with a happy "smile" on the forum soon....:whistling:

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alloway65

My feeling is that most BoB Gemstone sellers take as gospel what their sellers tell them and make no effort to check and confirm what they are buying. Sometimes I feel some of us duped BoB Gemstone buyers know more about Gemstones than they do!:rolleyes:

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Ilya2005
Hello Ilya2005

I can understand your utter frustration in this matter as I too have been sold "natural" sapphires, only to having being told they're synthetic! I bought quite a lot of "natural sapphires" from a seller on BoB during the past 2 years. I collected these stones with the idea of having them set in my own designs. When I took them to the manufacturing jeweler (who happens to manufacture the Foschini group rings) he could tell by looking under a loop that the stones were synthetic. This being said, the stones were diffused. The seller claimes that diffused stones are natural, but the manufacturer informed me that would I apply for a valuation certificate from him, he would have to state "synthetic" on the report.

I have the utmost respect for this man and his company and now take all my stones to him. He also does the manufacturing and setting of all my own designer jewelery.

Not all sellers are dishonest (intentially dishonest incl), and there are a lot of sellers who would go out of their way to assist a potential buyer. I am sure that, in the future, you will have more positive than unhappy transactions, and can assure you that to date, BoB has only been professional and helpful in the many times I have dealt with them.

Hopefully we will see you with a happy "smile" on the forum soon....:whistling:

 

I thank you for your kind response. Yes, I have wonderful gems purchased on BOB...specifically from BountyHunter and Gemsbymail. Most of them come with the GISA cert, so, I have been well-served by that. On the rare occasion that I have purchased uncertified gems on BOB...most of them have turned out to be genuine...heated, yes, and possibly beryllium heated, but, definitely genuine.

 

Of course, anyone who buys a six-carat "sapphire" for R350 and thinks it's real, well...G-d bless them. :rolleyes:

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Ilya2005
My feeling is that most BoB Gemstone sellers take as gospel what their sellers tell them and make no effort to check and confirm what they are buying. Sometimes I feel some of us duped BoB Gemstone buyers know more about Gemstones than they do!:rolleyes:

 

I sell high-end jewelry made to order for wealthy clients worldwide. When I sell it, MY NAME is on the line. To have to claim that "my supplier duped me" and that's why you were sold a fake is...as we say here in the States...lame. I have to be sure that any gem that I sell is genuine when it leaves my studio.

 

My seller...Mr. Vorster...claims that HE was duped by HIS supplier. My question is: why would anyone take a stone and re-sell it without having it at least checked by a proficient jeweler? Seems logical to me.

 

The issue of fake, spurious and synthetic gems being sold as high-end gems has gotten so bad that one seller on eBay...certifiedgemsonly...sells ONLY certified gems and states that in his very user name. He has a very pertinent point: there are grifters, crooks, thieves and charlatans about, ready to separate your money from you. Another site...gemrockauctions...has a section where only certified gems are sold with a separate section where non-certified gems are sold.

 

BOB really needs to step up and step in to eliminate the bad sellers who will rip you off in a nanosecond.

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alloway65

When I first started buying on BoB some years ago, I had stamp & coin collections and wanted to collect something different and decided on Gemstones. I found it very interesting and over an 18 month period I had bought hundreds of gemstones, whilst doing this I tried to educate myself on the basics of Gemmology.

Up until then my only venture into this new hobby was the purchase of Certified VVS Diamonds for my wife.

As my knowledge grew I started to examine my gemstone purchases as they were received and discovered to my horror many gems bought were not as specified by the sellers. So I started asking questions and returning more and more stones for refunds.

I eventually sent a few batches of my “better”/larger stones to GISA for certification and had a few pleasant surprises and some disappointments mainly that some of the larger stones I had bought were synthetics….Hydrothermals. Then I also returned a few wrongly specified stones to the sellers for refunds.

Being somewhat disillusioned I stopped buying Gemstones and started trying to sell some of my certified Gemstones with a modicum of success.

 

Now I mainly give my better Gems as gifts as well as to my Granddaughters as keepsakes and to play with.

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Ilya2005
When I first started buying on BoB some years ago, I had stamp & coin collections and wanted to collect something different and decided on Gemstones. I found it very interesting and over an 18 month period I had bought hundreds of gemstones, whilst doing this I tried to educate myself on the basics of Gemmology.

Up until then my only venture into this new hobby was the purchase of Certified VVS Diamonds for my wife.

As my knowledge grew I started to examine my gemstone purchases as they were received and discovered to my horror many gems bought were not as specified by the sellers. So I started asking questions and returning more and more stones for refunds.

I eventually sent a few batches of my “better”/larger stones to GISA for certification and had a few pleasant surprises and some disappointments mainly that some of the larger stones I had bought were synthetics….Hydrothermals. Then I also returned a few wrongly specified stones to the sellers for refunds.

Being somewhat disillusioned I stopped buying Gemstones and started trying to sell some of my certified Gemstones with a modicum of success.

 

Now I mainly give my better Gems as gifts as well as to my Granddaughters as keepsakes and to play with.

I am beginning to feel that every stone sold as "genuine" but without a certificate is synthetic. Anyone who wants higher than R3000 for a gem from me is going to have to supply a recognized cert with that gem or there will be no sale. By the way, I've been quite impressed with GISA. Every gem bought on BOB or from individual dealers in Durban or Johannesburg that are GISA certified have been lovely and, if anything, under-graded.

 

The cert fees range from about $150/US for GIA...which is better at grading diamonds than colored gems...to about $70/US for colored gems graded at AGL..but, for confidence and peace of mind, can't be beat. I have no idea what GISA charges but it seems worth whatever the charge.

 

About two years ago, I did buy an uncertified 6.20 carat Kashmir Blue Sapphire cushion in VVS1/almost loupe clean condition from an Indian couple who were selling their fifty-year collection from their shop in NY City. They were on hard times. They were asking $10,000/US. I offered $2500/US for it. Reluctantly, she accepted it. I sent that gem to AGL and was delighted to find that it was not only a genuine Kashmir Sapphire, it was also unheated. It is now in my collection valued at $40,000 to $50.000/US. So, I will buy an uncertified gem on occasion, but, it is reluctantly. And, had the gem turned out to be a synthetic or BE treated, she would have refunded my money.

 

By the way, we here on the other side of the Atlantic are glued to the telly with the Pistorius trial. What a tragedy for all involved.

 

Ilya2005

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oddspotty

I am beginning to feel that every stone sold as "genuine" but without a certificate is synthetic. Anyone who wants higher than R3000 for a gem from me is going to have to supply a recognized cert with that gem or there will be no sale. By the way, I've been quite impressed with GISA. Every gem bought on BOB or from individual dealers in Durban or Johannesburg that are GISA certified have been lovely and, if anything, under-graded.

 

The cert fees range from about $150/US for GIA...which is better at grading diamonds than colored gems...to about $70/US for colored gems graded at AGL..but, for confidence and peace of mind, can't be beat. I have no idea what GISA charges but it seems worth whatever the charge.

 

About two years ago, I did buy an uncertified 6.20 carat Kashmir Blue Sapphire cushion in VVS1/almost loupe clean condition from an Indian couple who were selling their fifty-year collection from their shop in NY City. They were on hard times. They were asking $10,000/US. I offered $2500/US for it. Reluctantly, she accepted it. I sent that gem to AGL and was delighted to find that it was not only a genuine Kashmir Sapphire, it was also unheated. It is now in my collection valued at $40,000 to $50.000/US. So, I will buy an uncertified gem on occasion, but, it is reluctantly. And, had the gem turned out to be a synthetic or BE treated, she would have refunded my money.

 

By the way, we here on the other side of the Atlantic are glued to the telly with the Pistorius trial. What a tragedy for all involved.

 

Ilya2005

 

Just out of interest, when the Kashmir stone valued @ $40/50K turned out to be genuine, did you go back to the Indian couple and offer them any additional money as a token of appreciation & integrity? Just asking...

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MiemsJewels
Just out of interest, when the Kashmir stone valued @ $40/50K turned out to be genuine, did you go back to the Indian couple and offer them any additional money as a token of appreciation & integrity? Just asking...

 

Poor, poor indian couple, if they only knew the value of the stone all their financial worries would have been something of the past.:cry: My conscience would have bothered me day in and day out.

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meeks
Poor, poor indian couple, if they only knew the value of the stone all their financial worries would have been something of the past.:cry: My conscience would have bothered me day in and day out.

 

Oh and how Miems!! Imagine doing that to someone. Especially if they made it clear they NEED the cash. Apart from their own needs at the time, who knows, maybe that Indian couple had family members with kids who needed expensive medical care, or food,but a desperate need in whichever way, and asking just $10,000 was but a drop in the ocean for that gem (especially if the buyer knows gems) if the value was 40-50K,.. $2500??? wow!!

Edited by meeks

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Not1CentMore
Just out of interest, when the Kashmir stone valued @ $40/50K turned out to be genuine, did you go back to the Indian couple and offer them any additional money as a token of appreciation & integrity? Just asking...

 

Yeppers... right is right and wrong is never right. 'If the shoe was on the other foot'...

Miems... agree. My conscious would nag me nearly to death.

 

Ruthie

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Ilya2005

I Tried

 

Just out of interest, when the Kashmir stone valued @ $40/50K turned out to be genuine, did you go back to the Indian couple and offer them any additional money as a token of appreciation & integrity? Just asking...

 

 

In response to both questions: I tried to contact them, but, they had gone out of business by the time I had received my Sapphire back from AGL with that certification. Sending a letter to their last address only got that letter returned with the notation: "Addressee Unknown".

 

I have contacted many jewelers in the NY area where they were located, but, have only received the reply that they went back to India. Should I discover how to contact them, I plan to give the dealers that additional $7500/US...the amount they were asking in the beginning.

 

I think that would be fair, don't you?

 

Ilya2005

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Ilya2005
On 21 Feb, 2014, I purchased what was advertised as a "genuine sapphire" from Dennis Vorster on BOB. The total cost was R3370, which included shipping. I paid immediately with my American Express card through PayPal. I received what was supposed to be that "genuine sapphire" in the post. I had asked Mr. Vorster a question about the genuineness of the stone on BOB prior to bidding and was assured that it was genuine.

Ily2005

 

UPDATE: Mr. Vorster has received the "gem" in question plus the AGL certification of that gem as synthetic and has reimbursed me my monies paid for the gem and the postage.

 

I consider the case closed. Thank you.

 

Ilya2005

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GlamorHairExtensions

Fake gems

 

Few years ago i also brought a few "rudies" from awesomely rated sellers, over R2000 which I sent to EGL for testing. They were basically pretty glass. i got no refund from the sellers and my rating was also removed. Brought many London blue topaz and nothing came back as real stones, they were all glass, heated, hardened, coloured glass beads.

 

Ive just learned not to buy any gem stones in BOB.

 

As for my small business selling hair, i got more problem with people literally burnt the R15 piece with an iron, or a clip broke after 3 months of wear and still give me negative ratings. Its really hard to work with ratings.

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