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solik

DNW Auction 2-3 April 2014

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solik

Hi, was wondering if anyone could help (especially some experienced Bobbers).

 

I am a beginner in the market and up to now, havent ever bought from any international auction site but only from Bidorbuy locally.

 

I see there are quite a few nice graded coins coming up in the DNW 2-3 April 2014 Auction specifically those in big lots which are easy for beginners (lots 1563-1613) and some select coins in lots 1238-1266.

 

What are some of the things i need to consider when buying from an overseas auction. I have listed some questions below:

 

1. Buyers Premium - I see there is a 20% buyers premium, but what about any additonal charges?

2. VAT - how do you get charged VAT when bringing the coin back into RSA?

3. Importing - is there any special documentation you need or can you simply ship with FEDEX?

4. Paying - do most buyer pay with credit card or EFT? Is there any decleartion you need from SARS?

5. Estimates - the estiamtes seem rather low compared to market prices - is this something typical of auction houses and do the prices normally exceed or are they accurate?

 

Would appreciate some advice from experienced bobbers, as I see there are some really good coins, but just want to know if there are any other ancillary or administration that needs to be factored in?

 

Thanks very much,

Regards

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jwither

I do not live in South Africa, so I cannot answe your questions on bringing them back there.

 

I pay with Visa when I have bought from them in the past. There is a modest surcharge to cover the merchant fee.

 

You can also see my other reply in the other topic. Ignore the estimates.

 

If you are actually interested in bidding, you will need to use your prior experience to determine how much to pay. There is no absolute right or wrong answer.

 

I gathered from your posts that you are relatively new to collecting. If so, have you thought about goals for your collection?

 

Regardless of what they are, I would avoid paying excessive premiums for slightly higher graded coins. This is very typical of SA coins.

 

At the same time, you also need to consider what the coins actually look like, regardless of the grade on the holder. My experience with South Africa collectors from both comments on this board, the price structure and when I have sold coins myself is that too many in your country place too much emphasis on the holder. This is a mistake as not all coins in the same grade are necessarily equal.

 

Make sure that you only buy what you actually like. I have not looked at the lots in detail but in scanning them, there are a mixture of grades in the multi-coin lots. Personally, I do not usually care for KGVI in grades below MS-63. There are exceptions but I will mostly only buy these coins if it is actually scarce, like the AU-55 and AU-58 1946 1/ and 2/ I own. I also consider the financial prospects for any of the more common dates below this grade to be poor. They aren't particularly attractive most of the time and at least partly for this reason, I suspect that most other collectors don't really care for them that much either.

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Pierre_Henri

What a strange and conservative lot the British are ..

 

I was looking at this lot ...

 

Lot 1254, Ancient, British and World Coins, Tokens, Jetons, ... (2 - 3 April 2014) | Dix Noonan Webb

 

The coin is actually graded as Mint State 62 by NGC but the Poms know better describing it as

 

"...Good extremely fine or better ..."

 

Even the estimate I think is very conservative?

 

Pierre

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Pierre_Henri
What a strange and conservative lot the British are ..

 

I was looking at this lot ...

 

Lot 1254, Ancient, British and World Coins, Tokens, Jetons, ... (2 - 3 April 2014) | Dix Noonan Webb

 

The coin is actually graded as Mint State 62 by NGC but the Poms know better describing it as

 

"...Good extremely fine or better ..."

 

Even the estimate I think is very conservative?

 

Pierre

 

Sorry - here is the link ...

 

Lot 1254, Ancient, British and World Coins, Tokens, Jetons, ... (2 - 3 April 2014) | Dix Noonan Webb

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solik

Yes, and this goes back to my earlier reply on the other post as to why DNW versus Heritage as they seem very conservative on prices from my limited knowledge and looking on Bidorbuy etc for comparisons. (Lots #1253,1246,1580,1583,1570)

 

As it my first online international auction wanted to know if it was typical that the estimates from the auctioneer are low and should I be factoring this in when bidding?

 

Thanks

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jwither
Yes, and this goes back to my earlier reply on the other post as to why DNW versus Heritage as they seem very conservative on prices from my limited knowledge and looking on Bidorbuy etc for comparisons. (Lots #1253,1246,1580,1583,1570)

 

As it my first online international auction wanted to know if it was typical that the estimates from the auctioneer are low and should I be factoring this in when bidding?

 

Thanks

 

As I explained to you in my reply on that other topic, auction firms may do it intentionally. In the instance of DNW, I also think that another reason is that they are not familiar with the current market pricing, even though they offer a lot of South African coins. You mention those as low estimates. Without checking the specific coins now, I can also tell you that if you know current market levels, you will easily find an equal number if not more whose estimates have no basis in reality because they are far too high. I know that because I did look at all of them yesterday, I just cannot remember which lots contain which coins.

 

Ultimately, you are going to need to know how much to bid using your own judgement and experience. Ignore the estimates because they are irrelevant. Assuming that the estimates are not intentionally set low, in a weak market its likely that the prices realized will be lower. In a strong market, if you go by the estimates, you will get "blown out of the water" and won't win anything anyway.

 

What I am describing to you, it is particularly relevant given the nonsensical variances I described between coin in the same grade which sell in close proximity. Would you be happy buying the 1948 1/2D MS-64 at $306 and then finding out that the next buyer paid $48? I think not.

 

To give you a far worse example, Jonathan Kern also sold a 1941 NGC MS-65 RB 1/2D for $1525 on March 16. The census count for this coin on NGC (I have not checked PCGS) is 25 in BN (24 MS and 30 in RB (ALL MS). Of these, the count in 65 is 5 in BN and 13 in RB. That is $1525 for acoin which has a count of THIRTEEN which is hardly low by Union or even SA standards generally. There may be a few duplicates in there but I doubt it unless the coin sold for a high price in the past and I missed it.

 

The point I am making in this instance is that this coin isn't really "worth" $1525 even though it sold for this price and yes, even though it required two bidders who temporarily lost their senses to get it there. The coin isn't remotely scarce even in the narrow sense of numerical grade and color. Moreover, as i have mentioned more times than I can even remember, there are like many many more in existence that are available to be graded because its prior sales wouldn't have given anyone any real reason to bother grading it. Whoever bought it at that price, my prediction is that they are hopelessly "buried" in it.

 

The auction is over today but my advice to you based upon your posts is not to bid in one of these until you are more familiar with what you should be paying or at least are willing to pay. If you are going to do it, then I would only do so if you can bid live while the auction is in progress so that you can control your financial exposure. If you place really high bids just trying to win something, you are likely to end up competing against someone who either ignores or is ignorant of current market pricing and overpay.

Edited by jwither

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