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Interesting Forum Read Regarding NGC and PCGS Coins slabbed as PF69 or PF70...

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Cold Sea

This is not the first time that I have read this comment/discussion, here and elsewhere about PCGS being stricter than NGC with their grades.

 

I know of collectors who have re-submitted NGC to NGC in order to get a better grade, but I wonder if anybody here has done the PCGS/ NGC swop. This might help clear up whether it is just perception or real.

 

Judging by the prices fetched here for the higher grades recently, and with NGC dominating slabs on BOB, it would be tempting to break out your PCGS MS65 and submit to NGC, hoping to get to MS66 or better.

Edited by Cold Sea

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jwither
Nonsense - probably a PCGS employee posting this crap - NGC and PCGS are both up there with the best - but the one being so much better than the other is utterly nonsense ....

 

You are thinking of this from the standpoint of someone in South Africa. I do not collect US coins at all but post on the NGC Message Boards and read the PCGS forum somewhat regularly. For US coins, I think this is an accurate statement. I'm not sure it is mostly related to the grading accuracy as much as perception but there definitely is a price difference with many coins. This despite the fact that I also believe there are a lot of "kool-aid" drinkers who seem to think that only PCGS is "good enough" and some who also want one of those CAC (Collectibles Acceptance Corporation) stickers which is a fourth party grading service. (If you think a fourth party grading service is ridiculous, you are right. But that is where South Africa could also be headed if it continues to follow in the footsteps of teh USA.)

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Keane16
... and some who also want one of those CAC (Collectibles Acceptance Corporation) stickers which is a fourth party grading service. (If you think a fourth party grading service is ridiculous, you are right. But that is where South Africa could also be headed if it continues to follow in the footsteps of teh USA.)

 

What's a CAC sticker? How does a fourth party grading service work in numismatics?

Sorry, I haven't heard of this before.

Thanks in advance,

 

Mark.

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jwither
What's a CAC sticker? How does a fourth party grading service work in numismatics?

Sorry, I haven't heard of this before.

Thanks in advance,

 

Mark.

 

It is an extension to TPG and ridiculous prices for coins which are dependent upon trivial differences in actual quality. In other words, like what exists in the United States today and where either everyone or practically everyone on this forum wants SA coins to follow.

 

The concept behind the CAC is that some coins are below, average or above average for the grade. These are identified as "A", "B" and "C" coins.

 

It is the same concept I have mentioned on this forum more times than I can even remember. In other words, that just because two coins have the same numerical grade on the holder, they are not equal and are not or should not be worth the same money because no actually scarce or expensive coin is bought or sold as a "widget'. It is an obvious concept but it only matters in the United States today first, because the prices of the coins are so much higher than everywhere else. Second, because except selectively elsewhere (such as South Africa), no one cares for TPG. And third, because even in South Africa, it is apparent (to me anyway) that buyers disproportionately do buy coins as if they were "widgets". The best evidence of this on this forum is that whenever quality is discussed, disproportionately it is explicitly or at least implied that this is associated with a numerical grade. I almost never read posts where quality is presented otherwise.

 

Due to the cost of US coins, changes in grading standards over the years (and yes, they have changed at the TPG since 1986 and 1987 when PCGS and NGC were created), inconsistencies in their application, this service has been successful. The market did not demand it, John Albanese (founder of NGC) created it to evaluate coins already (and only) graded by NGC and PCGS. The link to their site is included here ==> CAC.

 

As described in this link, coins which meet CAC criteria will receive a sticker (as in a label applied to the holder) and CAC agrees to make a market for them, sight unseen. Since Albanese is held in high regard, this has created a premium for these coins versus those that CAC has not "approved". Many collectors only buy US coins "approved" by CAC.

 

What I can tell you is that the real reason why this service is successful is first, because of the price floor CAC creates. But second, probably because a lot of buyers have been badly burned buying coins that were overgraded or had problems that they later could only sell at a loss. And by this, I am not referring to counterfeits which are covered by the NGC or PCGS guarantee but others that are not.

 

At this time, I don't see CAC extending this practice to non-US coins because there isn't enough scale in any one area. What is possible is that in a market like South Africa, someone (such as a local dealer) will copy this practice. There are others in the US who I understand have done so for specific series. An example of this is Rick Snow who is a recognized specialist dealer in Flying Eagle and Indian Head Cents. I'm not sure he makes a market but he does perform an evaluation and apparently, his stature is enough to create some premium among buyers of these coins.

Edited by jwither

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Ambassadors Invest

Example of CAC certified sticker...58f5a74e77e94_caccertified.jpg.aed3c66ed33a40608047bb77594610b0.jpg

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