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Free Soul Styles

Would you refund the buyer?

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Free Soul Styles    10
Free Soul Styles

I need some help here.

 

If a buyer bought an item from you 6 months ago, and the item was stolen (empty envelope) and you sent through paperwork to the buyer to claim. Then never communicated again with you till recently, saying they were not allowed to claim, according to his/her post office, would you refund the buyer? No questions asked, regardless of the time passed and no comms.

 

See, i was told by my post office manager that if the parcel arrives empty, the insured, (receiver of the parcel), must claim. BUT, if the parcel never reaches its destination, the insured, (the sender), is responsible.

 

I am a little confused as to the rules of the post office, but the disclaimer form does tend to agree with the above statement.

 

How would you, THE SELLER, handle this situation?

Any advice would help.

 

Thanks.

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NooNooBug    10
NooNooBug

WoW ! That sure is a tricky one. PO rules are PO rules. Question: Do you know for sure that the buyer actually lodged a complaint and tried to claim? Perhaps they chose not to claim as it was just too much PT! Thankfully I have not had to claim so no idea how long a process can take. 6 Months however sounds suspect considering "...saying they were not allowed to claim, according to his/her post office..." which would mean you would surely be given that info straight off the bat ? mmm now where do you fit in...I would have to say surely you can not be expected to refund them so long after, but I just don't know ! Did the buyer discover the missing item at the PO already ? Coz once you leave PO building you no longer can claim if there is anything odd or missing ! Tough one, think you will need to sit with all the info and then decide. No easy task !

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Free Soul Styles    10
Free Soul Styles

He did put through a claim, however, i am waiting to hear from the investigator of the claim as to what happened. Like, was the claim rejected? Is it still pending, etc.I don't know if the parcel was opened at the counter or otherwise.

 

It's rough, no one seems to know the correct procedure. My whole issue is, if he was not allowed to claim, why did his post office manager let him even do so in the first place?! Why wait 6 months to get back to me? Why not email me and tell me there was a problem and assistance was needed? This is the first time i have ever had this problem, so i'm not 100% sure, and BoB also is having a difficult time trying to sort this out.

 

Once i have the info i need i'll be able to come to a decision. I will happily refund him myself, but first i would like to know if the claim was approved, denied or still pending. Just because he says so, doesn't make it the absolute truth. He is demanding an immediate refund. I can't do that without knowing all the facts from the post office. He apparently did send me the paperwork, but i was not able to open the attachments, i did inform him. When i asked him again he said he did it already and if i deleted them, then well done.

 

See the problem... Eish!

Edited by Free Soul Styles

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Just Beachin    10
Just Beachin

If you have a claim number, have a seat with the manager of your post office and let that person climb up the chain of command. Otherwise,

In my opinion, if the buyer is unable to help you with the claim (paperwork) by fax or some other program that you can open, your hands are tied.

I would write the buyer stating this and telling them "the balls in their court" (if they want to proceed with the claim), and due to the amount of time that has already gone by, it's just their word against the post office.

Edited by Just Beachin
grammer like a teenager

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Free Soul Styles    10
Free Soul Styles

To be completely honest, i do not want to contact this buyer at all. He's extremely hostile and rude. I told him in 3 different emails that i cannot open the attachments he's sent but he doesn't believe me. So now i wait for the report from the post office. All i have is his name and tracking number...

 

Thanks for the advice! Much appreciated.

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Free Soul Styles    10
Free Soul Styles

SO after emailing almost everyday to find out what happened..........

 

The buyer lied. His claim was rejected because he accepted the parcel and then tried to claim 10 days later.

I was bullied into refunding a person who lied. I have evidence from the post office as to why the claim was rejected. I have emailed BoB as they had sided with him, with no proof of his claim, just lots of angry aggressive emails. Now i want my money back!

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NooNooBug    10
NooNooBug

How did it take 10 DAYS to figure out ? Just NOT Fair to you at all ! Think he took a FAT chance & managed to hoodwink someone at BoB !

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Free Soul Styles    10
Free Soul Styles

Agreed.

 

Bid or Buy is sadly obligated to believe the buyer. I can understand that. But they should also allow the seller a chance to investigate and get some proof.

 

Now lets see what happens.

Edited by Free Soul Styles
My spelling sucks

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Allstar    10
Allstar

You should have never done a refund, the Post Office is the party offering the insurance cover not you.

Any loss or damage in transit is not your liability, I hope your terms and conditions include that but it is std practise.

Buyers can be really intimidating/pushy and mean spirited, you'll learn how to deal with them/know your rights and stand your ground.

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Free Soul Styles    10
Free Soul Styles

I know. According to someone at BoB i have to believe the buyer.... Sad but true. This is the only buyer i have ever had such a negative and rude experience with. I was unable to claim at all as the parcel was collected and signed for and after 12 days did he report the stolen parcel. Again, according to someone at BoB i was told that the buyer would have to be refunded before the rating would be changed. This buyer is now blocked... Not much else i could do. Don't want or need bad ratings for nasty people. Thanks anyways!!

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Allstar    10
Allstar

Sometimes you have to take a bad rating on the chin, normally community watch guys are quite considerate though, I have a had one or 2 uncalled for negative ratings removed, buyers arent allowed to game the rating system.

 

I've had one or 2 crazy buyers, one threatening to come beat me up because I wouldn't agree to a ridiculous request he made, I stood my ground over a week or so of violent threats, eventually the guy realised he was in the wrong and he wasn't going to get anywhere. Was a miserable experience though but you learn that those kinds of people use idle threats of violence to try and get their way (granted they don't sound so idle hearing them), biggest word of wisdom though is never speak badly back towards them on the phone/over email or make any threats of your own(apart from stating the obvious, ie assault is a criminal offence etc), they feed off of that and are fishing for a fight, just be polite, calm and firm to a tee, then there's nothing they can use to throw back at you or incite things. Community watch guys also don't take kindly to aggressive nasty people.

Edited by Allstar

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Free Soul Styles    10
Free Soul Styles

I've had negative ratings removed by them, and yes, they are quick to assist! But this particular buyer was a bad one. I mean for weeks he threatened me(after 6 months of no comms from him at all). He would not let up. I was calm, and in each email i tried to explain that i was doing an investigation and i needed time before i refunded him. Turns out though, the claim was rejected due to him only claiming a week later. So the post office refused because he had accepted and signed for the parcel. When i informed BoB of this it made no difference. I have the emails from the Post Office, however, after i refunded him i just dropped it. The entire saga cost me R200. Yes, he threatened me, was verbally abusive for R200.00.

 

So what's done is done. Lesson learnt!

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NooNooBug    10
NooNooBug

Free Soul you have done what you needed to do so for your sanity you can now let go & move on. Remember Karma is a B@#$% ! At least you know you will be able to sleep at night !

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mrmouse    12
mrmouse
I've had negative ratings removed by them, and yes, they are quick to assist! But this particular buyer was a bad one. I mean for weeks he threatened me(after 6 months of no comms from him at all). He would not let up. I was calm, and in each email i tried to explain that i was doing an investigation and i needed time before i refunded him. Turns out though, the claim was rejected due to him only claiming a week later. So the post office refused because he had accepted and signed for the parcel. When i informed BoB of this it made no difference. I have the emails from the Post Office, however, after i refunded him i just dropped it. The entire saga cost me R200. Yes, he threatened me, was verbally abusive for R200.00.

 

So what's done is done. Lesson learnt!

 

Yip unfortunately the law stands supreme and states " The buyer is responsible for all goods untill the seller has recieved them ,in good working order , that cannot be circumnavigated , whether insured or not , BoB is only abiding by the rules ,as a buyer and seller I made my mind up years ago to take any seller to task on BoB if the product is not as specified or arrives damaged , I also would have been upset , it is the sellers responibility to ensure the package arrives safely , not the buyers ,that is why lots of sellers only use a courier .on trinkets and the general R2.00 junk thats sold I wouldnt bother with a courier , get a bag sealer and seal all items in a heavy duty cake bag put in a small box seal in a bag again and then package if its expensive , lots of sellers tape the item into the speed services bag as well with boxtape , just loose in an envelope ,( bubble or not ) is looking for trouble.Cake bags are cheap and go a long way to saving small items as they dont rip easily .

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Allstar    10
Allstar
Yip unfortunately the law stands supreme and states " The buyer is responsible for all goods untill the seller has recieved them ,in good working order , that cannot be circumnavigated , whether insured or not , BoB is only abiding by the rules ,as a buyer and seller I made my mind up years ago to take any seller to task on BoB if the product is not as specified or arrives damaged , I also would have been upset , it is the sellers responibility to ensure the package arrives safely , not the buyers ,that is why lots of sellers only use a courier .on trinkets and the general R2.00 junk thats sold I wouldnt bother with a courier , get a bag sealer and seal all items in a heavy duty cake bag put in a small box seal in a bag again and then package if its expensive , lots of sellers tape the item into the speed services bag as well with boxtape , just loose in an envelope ,( bubble or not ) is looking for trouble.Cake bags are cheap and go a long way to saving small items as they dont rip easily .

 

What you are saying is buyers don't technically need to ask for or pay insurance because no matter what happens to the order during shipping its the sellers responsibility if the item goes missing or is damaged during shipping?

 

I can't find anything to that effect in the Bob rules?

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Colin_P    10
Colin_P
What you are saying is buyers don't technically need to ask for or pay insurance because no matter what happens to the order during shipping its the sellers responsibility if the item goes missing or is damaged during shipping?

 

I can't find anything to that effect in the Bob rules?

 

It's the Consumer Protection Act, not BoB's rules.

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Allstar    10
Allstar
It's the Consumer Protection Act, not BoB's rules.

 

Would you possibly have a link to that info?

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qball    11
qball

Section 19 (2c)

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mrmouse    12
mrmouse

At least if the item is insured and goes missing you have recourse to the law and can claim for loss , but not damages , it takes a while to get processed but does get done and atleast you wont be out of pocket for whatever value it was insured for , some companys have there own inhouse insurance that does it for you so any claim is done through the seller and not the PO , so PO insurance cannot be compulsory or enforced ,,if enforced and the item does go missing the seller will have to foot the loss as he enforced the sale of the insurance and is acting as a broker and will therefore have to repay you and claim himself.Freight is allways a risk if I sell an expensive item and the buyer is within a certain distance I will charge freight and have it delivered personally.Its unfortunate that the majority of sellers on BoB dont realise that by selling on a platform you are infact a small business and have to abide by the law , and act like a retailer should , these days the ASA and CPA can make life very difficult for you if you dont . a lot of sellers believe they are a law unto themselves because they hide away behind a fake name and a keyboard .

Edited by mrmouse

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mrmouse    12
mrmouse

And after all that nobody at the insurance company or PO is going to take you seriously when you try to claim for that R1 gold plated plastic ring that you won on a wednesday , that apparently went missing at the local hub.:bigsmile:When you fill in that claim form at the Post Office , listen carefully to the giggling behind the screen at the back of the counter , it goes straight into the bin the moment you leave the door .By the time youve filled in the various forms 6 times and taken3 days off work , driven out R2000 of petrol back and to the PO you will loose interest.

Edited by mrmouse

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Free Soul Styles    10
Free Soul Styles

What bugged me was not that BoB agreed with the buyer, it was that the buyer was allowed to demand a refund after 6 months of no communication AND that i was not allowed to investigate as to why the claim via the PO was rejected. As i said previously, i found out the reason was because the buyer signed and accepted the parcel and then returned after 12 days to claim. I had asked the buyer and the person at BoB to please allow me time to investigate. The buyer refused (but was allowed to harass me after 6 months) and BoB refused to remove the negative rating till i paid up. So in the end, the buyer got his money back (out of my own pocket) even though his claim was rejected due to his own fault.

 

To me this was very unfair..

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Colin_P    10
Colin_P
To me this was very unfair..

 

I couldn't agree more.

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Allstar    10
Allstar

"Passing of the risk rule: Section

19(2)(c) of the CPA stipulates that a supplier (or seller) is liable for the loss of goods prior to the delivery of goods as the supplier (or seller) keeps the goods in his ‘care and risk’ until delivery."

 

Seems to be some ambiguity there as to when the risk passes to the buyer?

It seems to imply the risk for the seller is limited to when the goods are in his possession but the risk passes to the buyer once the item is collected by the courier/delivery service?

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Free Soul Styles    10
Free Soul Styles

So the buyer left the parcel sitting around for 4 days collected and signed for it, and then 12 days later went back to complain because of theft it's still my responsibility? Even though he only contacted me 6 months after?

 

Either way. Now i know. I'll rather sit with the unfair rating WHILE i investigate before giving out a refund (if necessary)

Edited by Free Soul Styles
added my 2 cents

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Little Miss Muffet    20
Little Miss Muffet

This is a story I heard recently in passing at an antique market about a parcel that went missing.The item was stolen and worth R1200

The seller agreed to list another item for the buyer at R1300 to regain the commission and postage.

The buyer bought the item and the seller sent it insured.

It was sent speed post with no contents and a torn envelope inside the speed post envelope. The buyer opened it in the Post Office to prove the contents had been stolen and a Post Office claim was honoured. Now that is not right but then is stealing right. If the Post Office is aware of all the theft, why do they not put more security measures in place.

This country is disappointing. Bidorbuy is South Africa's biggest online trading site and it is going to be affected by all this.

The amazing thing is that we do nothing about it.We should be kicking up a stink in the media and put an end to it.

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