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Pierre_Henri

Mandeliana - Hard times ahead ...

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Pierre_Henri    14
Pierre_Henri

Seems like the market for Mandeliana items has already started to implode ...

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/124593847/Nelson_Mandela_Silver_Clad_Coin.html

 

The truly rare gold & silver items might still be in the run for some takers, but the run of the mill cladded stuff are in the doldrums - it was a money making scheme right from the beginning and now that the great man has died – there are almost no buyers for these trinket- store like items

Everyone was warned on this forum since way back when – and now only difficult & hard times awaits those who has made an uninformed “investment” in numismatic and philatelic Mandeliana.

Bar two or three German tourists – there are going to be very few buyers around in the coming years on our sunny shores.

Rather Invest in ZAR and UNION coin & stamp rarities – that is what most of our old timers would recommend.

Mandela was a great man – but many people might hate themselves for years to come for “investing” in most collectables bearing his big name.

Pierre

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geejay50    10
geejay50

Well said Pierre,

 

A brief look at Mandela 2008 Birthday Coins Sold on Bidorbuy shows a harsh picture of NGC graded coins that are sold in batches of 10 and 20 at mostly not even grading cost let alone any profit.

 

The much vaunted spike in demand and ?prices around the great man's death has not so far happened. Will it by some chance still do so ? I very much doubt that unfortunately and I do feel for those who have made sometimes big investments in these very common coins. There is no joy in saying 'I told you so' .

 

I do feel much anger though at the well known big companies who deliberately misled some collectors into putting sometimes big amounts of money in Mandela coins that these companies had no intention of buying back at any price in actual fact. How out of keeping with that warm spirit of integrity and self sacrifice associated with the great man portayed on these coins.Hell has a special place waiting for them.

 

Geejay

Edited by geejay50

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jwither    10
jwither

This is a topic that has been discussed many times here on this forum. I presume by the scarcer coins, Pierre is referring to the gold commemoratives. I can see those holding most of their value or maybe doing well in the future, though they certainly were not cheap the last time I checked their prices and I have no idea of their current values.

 

The 2008 90th BD coins have absolutely no chance of going anywhere. With a census count of 188,000 or even more, these coins are disprorportionately going nowhere. I have no sympathy for those who speculated in these coins because they brought it upon themselves through a combination of their own will full ignorance and greed. I expect all grades below MS-68 to ultimately sell for less than the slab fee and both the MS-68 and MS-69 to ultimately lose at least 99% from their peak prices.

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Pierre_Henri    14
Pierre_Henri

I know that the Mandela coin craze of the early 2000s have brought thousands if not ten-thousands of new coin collectors to the SA numismatic market – some of whom definitely got hooked on coins in general and eventually crossed the Rubicon to true numismatics (meaning truly rare SA coins).

Many of these newcomers will probably leave the numismatic market as quickly as they have entered it. But even if only a small percentage remain behind and carry on their new found love of numismatics, the Mandela coin craze has done its job and for that I will be eternally grateful.

To be honest, what else in South Africa was more stimulating to the coin market in the past decade (or for any decade for that matter) than the entering of thousands of new collectors due to the Mandela R5 craze?

 

Due to this strange phenomenon, South Africa might be the only country in the world where numismatic sales outperforms philatelic sales on a massive scale.

 

Pierre

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jwither    10
jwither
I know that the Mandela coin craze of the early 2000s have brought thousands if not ten-thousands of new coin collectors to the SA numismatic market – some of whom definitely got hooked on coins in general and eventually crossed the Rubicon to true numismatics (meaning truly rare SA coins).

Many of these newcomers will probably leave the numismatic market as quickly as they have entered it. But even if only a small percentage remain behind and carry on their new found love of numismatics, the Mandela coin craze has done its job and for that I will be eternally grateful.

To be honest, what else in South Africa was more stimulating to the coin market in the past decade (or for any decade for that matter) than the entering of thousands of new collectors due to the Mandela R5 craze?

 

Due to this strange phenomenon, South Africa might be the only country in the world where numismatic sales outperforms philatelic sales on a massive scale.

 

Pierre

 

It depends upon whether by "stimulating" you are talking about the prices or mostly interest in coins as a hobby. From what I can see,on this forum and in the recent price record, it was mostly as "investment".. I am interested in buying these coins for less, not paying more because I actually would like to complete my collection. Also, as you indicated, I do not see how having a disproportionate number of novices lose a substantial proportion of their "investment" can help real collecting in your country. I believe that a small percentage made a windfall while most lost money during this period.

 

I admit that I have sold most of my better South Africa coins, but that is substantially due to the inflated prices at the peak or near it. Otherwise, I would have kept them. The opportunity to receive a "windfall" was too good and I was not going to pass it up because it would have taken a decent amount of traditional saving to equal it.

 

The reason I mostly prefer a lower price level even from the financial aspect is because any profit I will normally make, it doesn't really do anything to change my financial situation. It is the same thing I have discussed with others on the NGC Message Boards. I had a much larger proportion of my collection value in South Africa when I had the most money in coins, but especially in my other series, the only thing higher prices do is annoy me by making it more expensive to buy the same coins. The reason for this is that I'm never going to have enough of them where the profit will be meaningful.

 

To give you an example, earlier in the year I attempted to buy a 1754 Peru one real PCGS MS-64 from Heritage. I bid $1700 but the coin sold for close to $2000. Seven years ago when I bought most of the specimens I have in this series, this coin would have been worth less than $1000. Since I cannot buy very many of these since they apparently do not even exist, an extra $500 or $1000 on the few I have is financially irrelevant and it isn't because I am "rich", but because it costs a bucket load of money to live a reasonable middle class life in the USA.

 

At this point, I am buying SA coins selectively but I still expect to buy most of them for less. Yesterday, I bought a 1947 NGC MS-63 BN penny on eBay for $69. I really do not think this coin should sell for much more in this market because the census counts are not low, but the last one I saw sell on Bob was for around three or four times this price if not more.

 

On the comparison to philatetics, I do not know about other countries but I assume that coins "blow" stamps away here. I do not think it is even close. I do not know any stamp collectors or follow it at all but the impression I have from the few comments on the NGC Message Boards is that it has declined substantially in popularity in the last decade or so.

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Pierre_Henri    14
Pierre_Henri
It depends upon whether by "stimulating" you are talking about the prices or mostly interest in coins as a hobby. From what I can see,on this forum and in the recent price record, it was mostly as "investment".. I am interested in buying these coins for less, not paying more because I actually would like to complete my collection. Also, as you indicated, I do not see how having a disproportionate number of novices lose a substantial proportion of their "investment" can help real collecting in your country. I believe that a small percentage made a windfall while most lost money during this period.

 

I admit that I have sold most of my better South Africa coins, but that is substantially due to the inflated prices at the peak or near it. Otherwise, I would have kept them. The opportunity to receive a "windfall" was too good and I was not going to pass it up because it would have taken a decent amount of traditional saving to equal it.

 

The reason I mostly prefer a lower price level even from the financial aspect is because any profit I will normally make, it doesn't really do anything to change my financial situation. It is the same thing I have discussed with others on the NGC Message Boards. I had a much larger proportion of my collection value in South Africa when I had the most money in coins, but especially in my other series, the only thing higher prices do is annoy me by making it more expensive to buy the same coins. The reason for this is that I'm never going to have enough of them where the profit will be meaningful.

 

To give you an example, earlier in the year I attempted to buy a 1754 Peru one real PCGS MS-64 from Heritage. I bid $1700 but the coin sold for close to $2000. Seven years ago when I bought most of the specimens I have in this series, this coin would have been worth less than $1000. Since I cannot buy very many of these since they apparently do not even exist, an extra $500 or $1000 on the few I have is financially irrelevant and it isn't because I am "rich", but because it costs a bucket load of money to live a reasonable middle class life in the USA.

 

At this point, I am buying SA coins selectively but I still expect to buy most of them for less. Yesterday, I bought a 1947 NGC MS-63 BN penny on eBay for $69. I really do not think this coin should sell for much more in this market because the census counts are not low, but the last one I saw sell on Bob was for around three or four times this price if not more.

 

On the comparison to philatetics, I do not know about other countries but I assume that coins "blow" stamps away here. I do not think it is even close. I do not know any stamp collectors or follow it at all but the impression I have from the few comments on the NGC Message Boards is that it has declined substantially in popularity in the last decade or so.

 

If whoever is collecting coins for investment purposes – STOP – run away and take your money somewhere else.

Coin collecting is a HOBBY like playing golf, going to the gym, or listing to music.

I am really tired to hear how a bad an investment coins are – it’s NOT an investment – it’s a hobby with the just-maybe-potential of receiving some financial return if you are lucky.

 

Unlike the many brandies John Smith had at the 19th hole at the golf course after how many decades... your coins would surely do better if you did not swallow or gulp them down – but PLEASE stop collecting coins if you are ONLY into the game for investment purposes.

 

Can we please move on ...

Pierre

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jwither    10
jwither
If whoever is collecting coins for investment purposes – STOP – run away and take your money somewhere else.

Coin collecting is a HOBBY like playing golf, going to the gym, or listing to music.

I am really tired to hear how a bad an investment coins are – it’s NOT an investment – it’s a hobby with the just-maybe-potential of receiving some financial return if you are lucky.

 

Unlike the many brandies John Smith had at the 19th hole at the golf course after how many decades... your coins would surely do better if you did not swallow or gulp them down – but PLEASE stop collecting coins if you are ONLY into the game for investment purposes.

 

Can we please move on ...

Pierre

 

So, the buyer of the 1898 "99" Pond where you facilitated the sale for R1.5MM views it as a hobby? I do not think so.

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