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Joshgoooz

Item Removed - Hours before auction end

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Joshgoooz    10
Joshgoooz

So I was bidding on this item http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/116637392/1_ON_AUCTIONS_1_Remote_Controlled_Sensor_Alarm.html

The seller just removed my bid and item with no explanation or reason.

This seller is a fraud, http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/user/2620917/Alicestyle

Just because you don't like the price you are receiving on an action, you cant just delete it and run.

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jogesel    10
jogesel

I would imagine this happens quite often as it also happened to me quite recently. When I complained, BOB advised that they had warned the buyer not to do this again and that they would be watching him. This hardly helps the bidder. In my case I just had to accept the fact that I could no longer get the item I was interested in.

 

In my view the seller should be forced to re-instate the bids and continue with the auction. Unless the seller has a genuine and valid reason to delete bids and close the auction it is extremely unfair to bidders.

 

Sellers who sell by auction often state in their listings "this is a binding legal transaction" "if you bid you are bound" etc, etc, etc. Yet they do as they please. They seem to think that there are different rules for them. Bidders are bound by rules but not sellers.

 

From my own experience it seems to me too that in cases like this BOB takes the side of the seller and not the bidder. The current auction rules do not adequately protect bidders.

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qball    10
qball

The seller has received an official warning, however, legally we cannot enforce a sale where there was not one. You as the bidder can seek legal relief through Small Claims or civil action against the seller. Bidorbuy cannot act for you in this regard. Sellers are also bound by the rules, they get one chance, if they request this activity we then take further steps against their account.

 

I tend to disagree with your sentiments, bidders actually have more protection than you may think, especially in light of the CPA. We do not take sides as you claim, we do dish out warnings and restrict accounts when required to do so.

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MiemsJewels    10
MiemsJewels

If you look at the negatives piling up, there seems to be , groot skroef los!

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jogesel    10
jogesel

I strongly disagree that there was no sale. What is an auction if not a sale? You would not be trying to enforce a sale but rather ensuring that a seller complies with his duties as set out by BOB's terms and conditions. What's the point of rules if they are not properly monitored and sanctioned?

 

Be that as it may BOB could take harsher action against such practises if it wanted to. How about instead of a warning which is in effect a slap on the wrists BOB says to the seller that he is not allowed to conduct any auctions for a period of 30 days or 60 days. That (and the loss of income) would make the seller think twice before continuing with irregular practises. The leniency with which these types of sellers (and if I might add also all those sellers with so many bad ratings) are treated, certainly gives me the impression that BOB sides with the seller and not with the buyer. It may not be the true position but it is a perception and other buyers may also have this perception.

 

Small Claims Court! Civil action! Yes buyers have remedies but the time and costs involved especially where the item is not of great value, and also the difficulty with the collection of evidence, make these prohibitive options.

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geewhizz    20
geewhizz

10,833 sales

353 neutral and negative ratings

4,222 positive ratings

=4575 ratings out of 10,833

6258 unrated sales.???

No respect for the platform they trade on.

 

I would rather buy at Pep stores:laugh:

Edited by geewhizz

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qball    10
qball
I strongly disagree that there was no sale. What is an auction if not a sale? You would not be trying to enforce a sale but rather ensuring that a seller complies with his duties as set out by BOB's terms and conditions. What's the point of rules if they are not properly monitored and sanctioned?

 

Be that as it may BOB could take harsher action against such practises if it wanted to. How about instead of a warning which is in effect a slap on the wrists BOB says to the seller that he is not allowed to conduct any auctions for a period of 30 days or 60 days. That (and the loss of income) would make the seller think twice before continuing with irregular practises. The leniency with which these types of sellers (and if I might add also all those sellers with so many bad ratings) are treated, certainly gives me the impression that BOB sides with the seller and not with the buyer. It may not be the true position but it is a perception and other buyers may also have this perception.

 

Small Claims Court! Civil action! Yes buyers have remedies but the time and costs involved especially where the item is not of great value, and also the difficulty with the collection of evidence, make these prohibitive options.

 

Thank you for your comments.

 

At the time the auction was running a sale did not technically take place, it was merely a bid. A sale only happens once the auction closes with winning bidders. We do monitor this and take action, a warning is the first step - they are request to refrain from such practices and informed of repercussions should ti continue - this usually is enough to stop them. Should it continue, we then restrict or disable the seller's account, or even consider further permanent steps against the seller. There are many rules in life, this does not mean we can monitor or enforce every one of them, all of the time. For example, Thou shalt not kill, yet it still happens - it's a rule, but to enforce it and prevent it is challenging at the best of times, this would apply to all rules on bidorbuy, we cannot be everywhere all of the time and thus ask the affected users to contact us if it happens. Your suggestion whilst welcome, is impractical, especially as it may affect other buyers and their transactions, as often the seller is running multiple auctions and listings (closing at around the same time or already closed) and has numerous other customer orders to fulfill, by doing what you propose you effectively disadvantage all those other customers, causing an even bigger problem with non fulfillment.

 

You are welcome to think that we "side" with the seller, funny really, because sellers think we side with buyers all the time :biggrin:.

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qball    10
qball
10,833 sales

353 neutral and negative ratings

4,222 positive ratings

=4575 ratings out of 10,833

6258 unrated sales.???

No respect for the platform they trade on.

 

I would rather buy at Pep stores:laugh:

 

The seller is being monitored and we have already had several meeting with them to improve this, they have shown a willingness to resolve these issues as they do wish to continue trading, however, we are monitoring their ratings regularly.

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Captain Bob    10
Captain Bob

Talking about not enough protection for buyers, I strongly disagree. The quality of buyers on BOB is not good, something needs to be done, like having restrictions on new buyers until they can be trusted to honor sales, maybe a buy limit restriction. 2 out of 3 sales of mines are always a dud because buyers simply don't care and keep you hanging without paying, the side effects can be bad for the guys who are rolling money with stock and count on buyers to honor their payments while stock is being held. I actually don't feel sorry for buyers anymore, majority on BOB are a waste of time these days or either unappreciative then have a blowout when they don't get a steal(like the guy who started this thread). BOB you need to create a quality community even if its at the expense of less users by having honorable buyers, pick and choose the buyers, too much protection is given to them. I understand why CPA is there but most sellers on BOB are trustworthy and actually quite good, but buyers on here also take the CPA and try to manipulate it to their advantage and screw you in the process no matter how cheap they won the auction, they always want more from you. Get rid of them BOB, give us better quality buyers.

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qball    10
qball
Talking about not enough protection for buyers, I strongly disagree. The quality of buyers on BOB is not good, something needs to be done, like having restrictions on new buyers until they can be trusted to honor sales, maybe a buy limit restriction. 2 out of 3 sales of mines are always a dud because buyers simply don't care and keep you hanging without paying, the side effects can be bad for the guys who are rolling money with stock and count on buyers to honor their payments while stock is being held. I actually don't feel sorry for buyers anymore, majority on BOB are a waste of time these days or either unappreciative then have a blowout when they don't get a steal(like the guy who started this thread). BOB you need to create a quality community even if its at the expense of less users by having honorable buyers, pick and choose the buyers, too much protection is given to them. I understand why CPA is there but most sellers on BOB are trustworthy and actually quite good, but buyers on here also take the CPA and try to manipulate it to their advantage and screw you in the process no matter how cheap they won the auction, they always want more from you. Get rid of them BOB, give us better quality buyers.

 

I am afraid we will not be putting in restrictions and barriers to entry for buyers, that defeats the whole concept of a free market platform. Yes, buyers have protection in terms of the law, you as sellers, need to understand that, accept it and move on, you also assume this risk when trading online. This we cannot change. Without buyers you do not have businesses. We cannot and do not guarantee the "quality" of a buyer, this is impossible to know before a sale takes place and then to impose restrictions on the buyers will send them away before they have even transacted. I tend to disdagree, the majority of buyers do conclude their purchases and do fulfill their obligations, this is clearly evident in the number of buyers and bidders using the site and the number of sales being concluded - which all equates to growth.

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Captain Bob    10
Captain Bob

Noted, though I think there can be implementations that can be done when new buyers sign on to explain their obligation to pay if they bid or buy, you may have growth but at the expense of quality buyers.

 

Sales may be increasing, but most of it may be only on cheaper goods R 1000 / R 1500 and less, some on shill bidding and their winners and buyers literally looking for steals.

 

I remember 9 years ago, BOB was a better place to do business, 90% of my auctions or buy it now s were always paid, that rate has now surely dropped.

 

Mind my rant, the overall BOB platform service is brilliant and has improved over the years, but it is very frustrating not knowing on each deal if the money will come through or not, its a norm now being worried if a buyer will pay on every deal (I talk for myself here).

 

I am sure BidorBuy has lost a lot of good sellers over the years because of buyers messing around with payments.

 

I think the problem maybe with items over R 5000.

 

That said I have no doubt BOB is trying their best everyday to make it better, nothing is perfect and I guess non payers are part of online and offline business.

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qball    10
qball
Noted, though I think there can be implementations that can be done when new buyers sign on to explain their obligation to pay if they bid or buy, you may have growth but at the expense of quality buyers.

 

Sales may be increasing, but most of it may be only on cheaper goods R 1000 / R 1500 and less, some on shill bidding and their winners and buyers literally looking for steals.

 

I remember 9 years ago, BOB was a better place to do business, 90% of my auctions or buy it now s were always paid, that rate has now surely dropped.

 

Mind my rant, the overall BOB platform service is brilliant and has improved over the years, but it is very frustrating not knowing on each deal if the money will come through or not, its a norm now being worried if a buyer will pay on every deal (I talk for myself here).

 

I am sure BidorBuy has lost a lot of good sellers over the years because of buyers messing around with payments.

 

I think the problem maybe with items over R 5000.

 

That said I have no doubt BOB is trying their best everyday to make it better, nothing is perfect and I guess non payers are part of online and offline business.

 

We already do this - both in our Terms of Use as well as on the bid page where they submit their bids. The problem is we can have text and writing all over the place, our experience has taught us that many people simply do not read any of this.

 

I am afraid the site has grown considerably since then, competition has become fierce, we have over a million registered users now, a far cry from 9 years ago. We also now have 1.6 million listings as opposed to several thousand back then. In 2007, there were only about 30000 listings, and as we grow, more and more new buyers and bidders will come onto the site, not all of them will understand the legal consequences or their obligations in relation to their actions.

 

I can liken this to a shopping mall. The mall is filled with shops, and buyers then visit those shops, there is no guarantee that even though the mall has been well marketed and the shops have done their best to get feet in, that it will result in sales. You could have 100 visitors to your shop in one day and only 1 person may buy. It's not the Mall Management's responsibility to get the consumers to pay nor can they implement restrictions to this effect.

 

The problem is that the new buyers that do come to the site do not understand how it works, they are sceptical and cautious, even hesitant, because they are buying something online without seeing it or meeting the seller. We have tons of Help pages and Terms and Conditions, but I can tell you now, not many people bother reading or utilising these resources. And with the CPA in effect now, we also may not discriminate against consumers, so by placing some form of restriction or screening process in place, could be considered discriminatory in terms of the CPA.

 

Even if you sell on other platforms, there is no guarantee of payment, so the same will happen on OLX, Junkmail, Gumtree, the newspaper classifieds, online classifieds etc. There is no real way of forcing someone to pay online. You could have someone interested in your item, come view it, agree to buy it (telephonically or via email) and then simply bug out of the sale. This is unfortunately not unique to bidorbuy, but to all sites.

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lilythepink    10
lilythepink

It seems that, generally, life is more corrupt than it was 9 years ago - and not only being experienced on BoB. :blink1:

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Captain Bob    10
Captain Bob
We already do this - both in our Terms of Use as well as on the bid page where they submit their bids. The problem is we can have text and writing all over the place, our experience has taught us that many people simply do not read any of this.

 

I am afraid the site has grown considerably since then, competition has become fierce, we have over a million registered users now, a far cry from 9 years ago. We also now have 1.6 million listings as opposed to several thousand back then. In 2007, there were only about 30000 listings, and as we grow, more and more new buyers and bidders will come onto the site, not all of them will understand the legal consequences or their obligations in relation to their actions.

 

I can liken this to a shopping mall. The mall is filled with shops, and buyers then visit those shops, there is no guarantee that even though the mall has been well marketed and the shops have done their best to get feet in, that it will result in sales. You could have 100 visitors to your shop in one day and only 1 person may buy. It's not the Mall Management's responsibility to get the consumers to pay nor can they implement restrictions to this effect.

 

The problem is that the new buyers that do come to the site do not understand how it works, they are sceptical and cautious, even hesitant, because they are buying something online without seeing it or meeting the seller. We have tons of Help pages and Terms and Conditions, but I can tell you now, not many people bother reading or utilising these resources. And with the CPA in effect now, we also may not discriminate against consumers, so by placing some form of restriction or screening process in place, could be considered discriminatory in terms of the CPA.

 

Even if you sell on other platforms, there is no guarantee of payment, so the same will happen on OLX, Junkmail, Gumtree, the newspaper classifieds, online classifieds etc. There is no real way of forcing someone to pay online. You could have someone interested in your item, come view it, agree to buy it (telephonically or via email) and then simply bug out of the sale. This is unfortunately not unique to bidorbuy, but to all sites.

 

Well I guess you right, just on the auction part you are normally obliged to pay but because its online new and some old buyers don't take it too seriously.

 

That said, this is a bit naughty of me :blink1:, but after so many buyers failed to pay me and wasted my time, I am glad to see this thread opened by a buyer who is upset that the seller cancelled an auction for a deal the buyer really wanted, for once its nice that the tables have turned and the buyer is left frustrated :bigsmile:

 

That said I know its wrong and hopefully it doesn't happen again.

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Colin_P    10
Colin_P
That said, this is a bit naughty of me :blink1:, but after so many buyers failed to pay me and wasted my time, I am glad to see this thread opened by a buyer who is upset that the seller cancelled an auction for a deal the buyer really wanted, for once its nice that the tables have turned and the buyer is left frustrated :bigsmile:

 

I doubt you're the only seller to feel a bit like that. :smile:

 

Actually, that makes me a little sad, because this isn't meant to be a war between buyers and sellers, it's meant to be win-win, where the seller gets a fair price and the buyer gets the item they want at a price that they can afford and are comfortable with. I've been lucky (and a little fussy) and I've always left an auction happy with my purchase, and hopefully the sellers have been happy with their sale. If the sellers aren't making a profit and getting some satisfaction out of their business, then there'll be nothing for me to buy.

Edited by Colin_P

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Captain Bob    10
Captain Bob

It's not a war, I agree its supposed to be a win win, you right.

 

I am a buyer and a seller, and appreciate when someone buys or when I buy something at a decent price, I also appreciate the business BOB has brought in for me and the platform they have worked hard to give us and still working to always improve.

 

But the select 'naughty' buyers need to be siphoned off if they don't play their part.

 

BTW I have just sold an item on BOB for R 20 000 yesterday :smile:, fingers crossed the buyer pays.

 

Thanks BOB for all your great work and being forever helpful, you guys are the best.

Edited by Captain Bob

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