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ebsternator

CPA and risk of parcels

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ebsternator

Hi there

 

So I was looking through the write-up on the CPA, and it states that the risk of delivered goods remains with the supplier until they have been delivered.

 

From my understanding this would mean that BoB sellers bear all the risk of goods that they post. Which places the risk squarely on them for goods damaged in transit.

 

Why then, do sellers still give an "add insurance" option for buyers to pay, if the risk is borne by the seller, surely the entire amount for postage should include insurance (as opposed to it being an optional extra). Where does this put the buyer who opts out of insurance and receives damaged goods?

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NooNooBug

Thanx ...will need to give that some thought !

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Rambeo

I do hope the CPA excludes SAPO. Because SAPO servcie is totally unpredictable, unlike private couriers who offer abetter servcie and majority of the time you need not worry about things like insurance..

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ebsternator

Could perhaps the Admin or senior sellers reply to this to give us some insight? Does this mean that we can demand a new product from a seller if the product was damaged by SAPO owing to the CPA laws? OR would the process of "delivery" imply the delivery of the goods to the Post Office/Courier whereby the risk transfers to the buyer?

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mrmouse
Could perhaps the Admin or senior sellers reply to this to give us some insight? Does this mean that we can demand a new product from a seller if the product was damaged by SAPO owing to the CPA laws? OR would the process of "delivery" imply the delivery of the goods to the Post Office/Courier whereby the risk transfers to the buyer?

 

If goods are recieved damaged you are quite within youre right to DEMAND a replacement as the law states it is the sellers responsibility untill recieved by the buyer , The SAPO does an extremely good job and runs a very efficient service , damages are minimal and losses are paid out if insured for loss , no courier covers damages in ( very few do if any ) transit because it is easy to commit fraud and claim then .You will have recourse to the CPA if parcel is damaged if you have the time , money and knowledge to persue the matter and unfortunately as I have found out in the past small claims court takes forever , you can wait months and it also costs more than you expected .Rather choose your seller carefully and keep youre fingers crossed its like playing roulette out there.:cool: or driving through Cresta.

Edited by mrmouse

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RISadler

I don't think the CPA really changed the common-law position regarding the transfer of risk from seller to buyer.

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mrmouse

I dont think the CPA changed anything , read between the lines nothing changed really , it may help on a huge purchase of millions but on a R20 second hand product , nobody cares .Try take that R20 torch you purchased at chinatown back after 2 weeks and see if you get any joy ,the CPA is quite specific when it comes to seller buyer and transfer of ownerership as there is nothing to stop a seller from selling a broken vase on a site ,( posting a nice internet picture ) and then blaming the PO for breakage, that has happened to me before ( even though all of the pieces of the broken glass werent there the seller denied any wrongdoing and said blame the post office ) now with the CPA if the item was a high value item I would sue and claim damages without thinking twice.

Edited by mrmouse

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ebsternator

I would differ to what has been said in that the purpose of the CPA is to protect consumers in everyday transactions. With an increase in online shopping I think it is time that websites like bidorbuy explicitly change policies to fall in line. That said, I do not know bidorbuy's official stance on the matter regarding risk.

 

Also, as has been mentioned the courts are a slow remedy, so what recourse does bidorbuy offer for a buyer who opted OUT of insurance and received damaged goods? Hypothetically dealing with a non-verified seller ?

 

My suggestion would be that bidorbuy forces all sellers to include mandatory insurance as a packaged shipping cost, it is only a few rands extra after all.

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mrmouse

Bob actually doesnt have to do anything as they are only the platform its something the buyer must discuss with the seller , making insurance mandatory for loss is great but it won`t stop sellers sending lights with glass lenses with no bubble wrapping , that is also not the P.O`s problem ,its not correctly packed , thats the problem . a thin piece of styrofoam would have prevented a R300+ loss for me , Post office cant be blamed not even a Fragile sticker was on the box .Sellers should be forced to pack properly or face recourse BoB should withhold payments untill the item is recieved and checked/tested for faults .That will prevent loads of problems but cant happen as it will be a logistical nightmare for Bob.

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NooNooBug

What I find interesting is ...if you read ratings on some sellers where someone has received a broken item and the reply is "but I put a Fragile sticker on it.." has to make you laugh ! How do they think I sticker will prevent the small parcel from being "thrown" into a postal bag ? ...the bags are also NOT see through so no one knows it is fragile ! Bottom line is secure & extra padding with bubblewrap, stryrofoam, shredded paper more cardboard, whatever it takes. Ultimately the sellers responsibility to make sure it cannot break unless a truck rides over it !

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mrmouse

A courier delivered to me a while back when he opened the back doors of the truck about 100 dstv decoders and pvr machines toppled over and fell out of the truck , luckily I dont have dstv , and if yours broke now you know why . It gives new meaning to " it fell off the back of a truck."

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Jongleur
What I find interesting is ...if you read ratings on some sellers where someone has received a broken item and the reply is "but I put a Fragile sticker on it.." has to make you laugh ! How do they think I sticker will prevent the small parcel from being "thrown" into a postal bag ? ...the bags are also NOT see through so no one knows it is fragile ! Bottom line is secure & extra padding with bubblewrap, stryrofoam, shredded paper more cardboard, whatever it takes. Ultimately the sellers responsibility to make sure it cannot break unless a truck rides over it !

 

When a package is marked " Fragile " the standard operating procedure is to throw it from any distance or height

underhand and to have someone catch it. Does`nt always work though.:weeabooface:

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Not1CentMore

From this side...

 

I have found the more 'fluff' written on the parcel ('THIS SIDE UP', 'DO NOT DROP', 'FRAGILE', etc) top and sides is like a red flag dangling in front of a bull's nose. BOLD 'whatever' top and sides, written as big as an elephant's ear, is like daring someone, somewhere, to check and see if it will bounce... and, if so, how high. 'Plain Jane' parcels seem to arrive your side with less 'nicks and dings' external, and no internal, damage.

 

Ruthie

Edited by Not1CentMore
Can't even spell my own name....sheesh!

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NooNooBug
From this side...

 

I have found the more 'fluff' written on the parcel ('THIS SIDE UP', 'DO NOT DROP', 'FRAGILE', etc) top and sides is like a red flag dangling in front of a bull's nose. BOLD 'whatever' top and sides, written as big as an elephant's ear, is like daring someone, somewhere, to check and see if it will bounce... and, if so, how high. 'Plain Jane' parcels seem to arrive your side with less 'nicks and dings' external, and no internal, damage.

 

Ruthis

...so not only in Africa it seems !

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ebsternator
Bob actually doesnt have to do anything as they are only the platform its something the buyer must discuss with the seller , making insurance mandatory for loss is great but it won`t stop sellers sending lights with glass lenses with no bubble wrapping , that is also not the P.O`s problem ,its not correctly packed , thats the problem . a thin piece of styrofoam would have prevented a R300+ loss for me , Post office cant be blamed not even a Fragile sticker was on the box .Sellers should be forced to pack properly or face recourse BoB should withhold payments untill the item is recieved and checked/tested for faults .That will prevent loads of problems but cant happen as it will be a logistical nightmare for Bob.

 

I think I need to read up on BoB's policies when I get some spare time, but I thought that the whole reason sites like BoB exist is because they make the whole online transaction scheme of things more safe, as opposed to buying something off Gumtree. Is that not why the funds are put into a BoB account before the sellers account or am I getting confused?

 

I have had the issue of insufficient packaging and sometimes I wish that a remedy could be to slap some common sense into a seller :/

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mrmouse

It does make the online experience safer certainly , as you have access to things you wouldnt have on tandvleisboom and monies can be paid over or recieved without divulging info to buyer/seller , but to maintain control over 15000 transactions via mail/courier a day is impossible when its offsite and all over the world / country .Post is a logistical nightmare on its own never mind packaging .

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YiaYia1

#ebsternator# reading ratings you will see who pack items poorly. Most of my parcels received is well packed. Parcels I send is also bubble wrapped and great care has been taken to keep the parcel intact. In a country where there are poor work ethics.... We are not going to change how SAPO or any other courier service are going to handle parcels. No system is flawless.

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ebsternator
#ebsternator# reading ratings you will see who pack items poorly. Most of my parcels received is well packed. Parcels I send is also bubble wrapped and great care has been taken to keep the parcel intact. In a country where there are poor work ethics.... We are not going to change how SAPO or any other courier service are going to handle parcels. No system is flawless.

 

I understand but the point of my OP was that if the CPA puts the risk on a seller in a transaction up until delivery, then why is insurance optional (as it implies that the buyer is responsible once posted). Also, why is BoB not up to scratch i.t.o policies falling in line with the CPA

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YiaYia1

Have to ask BOB...I dont think the CPA is working. The CPA can also misused by buyers.

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Fashion Police

Let's say a parcel was wrapped securely but goods were damaged in transit; as far as I know SAPO insurance is only valid if the parcel is opened and inspected at the counter by the recipient. So let's say the recipient (buyer) does not open and inspect the goods at the counter, is the sender (seller) still responsible? According to CPA, yes. So basically it's then pointless to take insurance on SAPO parcels, either way the seller runs full risk - whether the parcel is insured or not.

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moodTime
I understand but the point of my OP was that if the CPA puts the risk on a seller in a transaction up until delivery, then why is insurance optional (as it implies that the buyer is responsible once posted). Also, why is BoB not up to scratch i.t.o policies falling in line with the CPA

 

From one of the earlier posts a question was asked that insurance should be incorporated into the postage amount, unfortunately this is not possible. Insurance is calculated at a rate of 3% per order value, per SA Post Office Rates. A R100 parcel will cost R3, whereas an order with multiple items for R2500 will cost R75 to insure. Because of this there is no way to build in insurance in your flat postage amount, if anything a sellers basic postage amount should only include cover up to a fixed amount + postage initially paid. Hence the need for a insurance calculator on checkout.

 

I am also a buyer on bidorbuy and on occasions I have rejected the sellers insurance, this is my decision despite me knowing there is a risk of theft loss as this was also pointed out in the sellers shipping details. Point 18.(1) of the CPA seems to deal with this, I may be mistaken though as I am no expert on law :thinking:

 

FROM CPA

18.(1) Despite any statement or notice to the contrary, a consumer is not responsible

for any loss or damage to any goods displayed by a supplier, unless the loss or damage

results from action by the consumer amounting to gross negligence or recklessness,

malicious behaviour or criminal conduct.

 

This specific section does not fall under the goods received via delivery section however I think the same logic would prevail. In my opinion when a buyer knowing full well there is a risk of loss and or theft then specifically chooses not to insure a parcel this would constitute gross negligence or recklessness on the buyers behalf.

 

Having said this I think it is still good business practice to compensate a buyer if something goes wrong.

Edited by moodTime

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Little Miss Muffet
#ebsternator# reading ratings you will see who pack items poorly. Most of my parcels received is well packed. Parcels I send is also bubble wrapped and great care has been taken to keep the parcel intact. In a country where there are poor work ethics.... We are not going to change how SAPO or any other courier service are going to handle parcels. No system is flawless.

 

I wonder what the result would be if some stats were extracted re negative ratings for items received broken.

I marketed for over 20 years and with no exaggeration,90 % of men would say "Oh you don't have to wrap it"

Men do not seem to think that breakables can break.

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Russalpcs

I have received negative ratings due to the Post Office strike, so it was my fault that the parcel arrived late!

 

On another note, SAPO's insurance only covers loss, not damage.

 

I have had goods replaced under warranty for a buyer that SAPO did damage in transit

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Just Beachin

I agree completely with you. and to insure a package is like begging for :mad:it to be stolen!

 

From this side...

 

I have found the more 'fluff' written on the parcel ('THIS SIDE UP', 'DO NOT DROP', 'FRAGILE', etc) top and sides is like a red flag dangling in front of a bull's nose. BOLD 'whatever' top and sides, written as big as an elephant's ear, is like daring someone, somewhere, to check and see if it will bounce... and, if so, how high. 'Plain Jane' parcels seem to arrive your side with less 'nicks and dings' external, and no internal, damage.

 

Ruthie

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Just Beachin

That's like saying, "why doesn't the road agency arrest litterbugs, the laws out there?"

 

I understand but the point of my OP was that if the CPA puts the risk on a seller in a transaction up until delivery, then why is insurance optional (as it implies that the buyer is responsible once posted). Also, why is BoB not up to scratch i.t.o policies falling in line with the CPA

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