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kimbo11

Need some help please

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kimbo11

Hi

I saw this coin on BoB for crazy wednesday

Europe & Great Britain - EXTREMELY SCARCE GERMANY BRANDENBURG BAYREUTH 4 KREUZER 1704 PCGS MS63! POP1!!! for sale in Durban (ID:83344430)

 

But the same one (Same serial number) sold on Ebay

Germany Brandenburg Bayreuth 4 Kreuzer 1704 PCGS MS63 | eBay

 

The problem is i cant see the number on PCGS site, can some help me to see if this coin is legit please

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jwither

If you cannot look up the slab number, then PCGS must require that anyone who does so must first be a member of their version of the "Collectors Society". If no one here is a member, what you can do is post a message on either the NGC Message Boards or the PCGS Coin Forum and someone should be willing to confirm it for you.

 

Oh and by the way, if it is a factor in your decision, I would disregard the significance of the population statistics for that coin. The fact that there is only one (whether in PCGS or even in total) at this time is completely irrelevant. If you actually want the coin, then buy it but I would not buy it because of its supposed rarity.

 

I cannot tell you how scarce it actually is and presumably because of its age, it is certainly not common. But I would assume that there are others out there unless you have a specific reason to know otherwise. This is a topic that I have covered many times here to explain why the population statistics outside of the United States are not what they seem. This also applies to South Africa (contrary to what everyone or practically everyone who posts here seems to believe) though much less.

Edited by jwither

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Pierre_Henri

It is the same coin

 

It is the same coin.

 

The buyer bought it on 4 November (a month ago) on E-Bay for just under R2000 and is now re-selling it on BoB.

 

You can see from his E-Bay track record that he is probably from South Africa (if one looks at the coins that he has bought via them lately)

 

I am 99% sure he will not get his money back / make a profit :- buying these types of coins in Europe and try reselling them in South Africa is probably not the best idea - BUT who knows?

He can prove me totally wrong and I take my hat off for him - he is probably testing an untested market in these wonderful European hammered coins in SA.

I wish him or her all the best but my hopes are not high. I think the coin will sell tomorrow night for less than half that was paid for it.

Be VERY careful before investing in coins.

Pierre

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kimbo11

Exactly my what I thought Pierre. Thank you

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jwither

I agree with you.

 

I do not know that much about German States coins but to my knowledge, the demand for the minors is not significant. On both US and European auctions, most of the German (and Austrian) States coins I see listed are Talers and the collectors I know of on the NGC Mesaage Boards either mostly or exclusively collect them and not the minors because they are larger and cheap for "old" coins.

 

They are almost certainly cheap because most collectors cannot possibly have enough money to collect all or most of them because there are simply too many. After I read the initial post, I checked the Heritage archives which lists somewhere between 50 and 100 German States of which Branderburg is just one. I do not know how these coins are collected, but I assume essentially never comprehensively and seldom for one state (such as Brandenburg) by date.

 

What this means from a practical standpoint is that an individual coin like this one is (by a lopsided probability) likely to get 'lost" in obscurity because there is no real reason why any (much less most) collectors of German States coinage would seek any particular issue over another one. A few yes, but generally, no.

 

What I am describing here is in some respects similar to what I have covered previously for the Spanish colonial pillars I collect. The "pillar dollar" or eight reales is far more popular as a crown sized coin, so most collectors prefer it over the minors I like even though they are almost always much scarcer. The main distinction is that even though the combined demand for German States minors is probably larger (for now anyway) than it is for pillar minors, because there are so many more coins to collect, the demand for any single one is going to be less or much less and therefore, the prices are also going to be lower or much lower because no pillar minor in MS-65 is ever going to be available for $300 or even less.

Edited by jwither

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