How can Micro$oft tell BoB to close my auction pending proof? And BoB does it!

[electronics4less 10]

Yesterday I listed a W7 Ultimate with COA, next moment it it closed.

 

Then I get a mail saying Microsoft asked BOB to close it pending proof that it is real.

 

Please tell me where it says Third parties have this power. Remember, neither BoB nor M$ had any reason to suspect it is fake. I was not selling just a key, or 100 of these, or one every week.

 

And why did BoB just close my auction? Why did you not request the proof before the auction ends? And not that I have sent the bloody COA, what now - are you just going to open it IF M$ comes back in time?

 

I'm sorry but I also have legal rights in this country. When I want to say 0-rated bidders can be deleted, I am told they are protected by the law. WHAT ABOUT ME?

[wayjen 10]

A few years ago I had a Camel cap on auction and it was removed because Camel branded items were not to be sold on BoB yet a quick search now showed me a few listings.

[qball 12]

We work closely with Microsoft SA regarding counterfeit and illegal products, they monitor the site, and from time to time, request us to remove suspected illegal items, we reserve the right to do so in accordance with our terms of use and request proof that the items are genuine. In many instances, we would rather be safe than sorry.

 

Your co-operation is appreciated.

[electronics4less 10]

Hi Cuan,

 

Where is this documented? Where is the process to be followed when this happens? I pay for an auction, you decide to cancel it on a third-party's instruction, and I still have to pay? How long does this process take?

 

And now that the item has been vetted as legal, can I re-list it? And do I get my listing fee refunded as you were wrong?

 

I'm sorry but just as new buyers have rights, I also have rights. It seems BoB can decide when I have these rights, but if there is no process to be followed, this is not acceptable.

 

When PPI comes in, at the end of the year, this will make sure you cannot disclose ANY information to third parties.

 

I believe in legal software, that's the funny part.

 

Cheers,

Coen

[qball 12]

Hi Cuan,

 

Where is this documented? Where is the process to be followed when this happens? I pay for an auction, you decide to cancel it on a third-party's instruction, and I still have to pay? How long does this process take?

 

And now that the item has been vetted as legal, can I re-list it? And do I get my listing fee refunded as you were wrong?

 

I'm sorry but just as new buyers have rights, I also have rights. It seems BoB can decide when I have these rights, but if there is no process to be followed, this is not acceptable.

 

When PPI comes in, at the end of the year, this will make sure you cannot disclose ANY information to third parties.

 

I believe in legal software, that's the funny part.

 

Cheers,

Coen

 

Hi Coen

 

I suggest you read our terms, if we suspect anything to be counterfeit, fake, suspicious, we reserve the right to remove the item until POA is received, with or without notice.

 

Should it be suspected that a crime is being committed, there is leeway to release details to third parties whose legal interests are being infringed or suspected of being infringed and protect our business and customers .

 

Should it turn out that the item is genuine we will refund you your listing fees.

 

9 bidorbuy Discretion9.1 We reserve the right in our sole discretion to alter or remove any information or withdraw any goods or services offered for sale by you, or a bid placed by you, if:

9.1.1 that information and/or those goods or services, as applicable;

9.1.1.1 infringe or is suspected of infringing the Intellectual Property Rights of any person (other than the Seller in question); or

9.1.1.2 may create any liability for us whatsoever;

9.1.2 in relation to the goods and services set out in

Clause 4.5

, if we are not entirely satisfied that you are legally permitted to offer for sale or sell, those goods and/or services;

9.1.3 you have not complied with

Clause 3.2

or

Clause 4.2

;

9.1.4 in relation to a bid, we reasonably believe that bid is not a legitimate, or commercially realistic bid for the goods and/or services;

9.1.5 it is otherwise in our commercial interests to do so;

9.1.6 we are required by law to do so;

9.1.7 you breach any provision of this Agreement; or

9.1.8 for any other reason whatsoever,

and you irrevocably and unconditionally agree that any rights that you may have had against us in respect of any action we may have taken under this

Clause 9

, are hereby waived.

 

12 Compliance with These Terms and Conditions

12.1 You agree to promptly inform us of any breach by you of the terms of this Agreement and of any conduct of another user that you think may be a breach of this Agreement, whether the conduct has ceased, is continuing, or may occur in the future.

12.2 You agree that we may and will monitor your conduct if we believe that you are not complying with the terms of this Agreement. If we do, then we will respect your confidentiality, unless:

12.2.1 doing so would or could implicate us in criminal behaviour, a civil wrong, or any other claim by a person for which we may have to pay compensation;

12.2.2 the law compels, requires, or makes it prudent and desirable for us to divulge or disclose the information we hold or know or any documents we possess; or

12.2.3 we consider it necessary or desirable to make disclosures to preserve or enforce our interests or rights.

12.3 If we believe, whether or not we have conducted any monitoring, that you are not, or may be in danger of not, complying with any of the provisions of this Agreement, then we may send you a warning asking you to rectify your conduct (although we will not be obliged to do so).

12.4 If you:

12.4.1 infringe or are suspected of infringing the Intellectual Property Rights of any other person;

12.4.2 are suspected of having, or are found by conviction, settlement insurance or escrow investigation or otherwise, to have engaged in any fraudulent or other criminal activity in connection with this Site or any other web site; or

12.4.3 have an over due payment on your bidorbuy Account; or

12.4.4 otherwise breach this Agreement, we may, in our absolute discretion:

12.4.4.1 withhold from you, your use of any or all of the Services, and access to your information;

12.4.4.2 delete or remove, without incurring any liability to you, any or all of your information and block in-coming and out-going data or message transfers;

12.4.4.3 restore the Services if and when you can demonstrate clear and complete adherence to the terms of this Agreement on a permanent and consistent basis; and

12.4.4.4 terminate the Agreement that we have entered into with you, and cancel our obligations to provide the Services, if we are not satisfied that you will clearly and completely adhere to the terms of this Agreement, on a permanent and consistent basis, if the Services are restored to you.

 

 

16.5 Sharing

16.5.1 If you successfully sell a product or successfully win an Auction, or are the runner up in an Auction where the winning bidder defaults, then your name, email address, phone number and fax number, payment details including credit card information and mailing address may be passed onto the other party involved in that Auction in accordance with the

Terms and Conditions of Use of this Site

. For example, if you bid on an Auction and win the Auction, your details will be passed onto the Seller of that item for auction. Similarly, if you are selling an item on Auction, your details will be passed onto the winning bidder of your Auction.

 

16.5.2 We will share aggregated demographic information with our business partners and advertisers. When we do, you will not be personally identifiable, and your personal information will only be used as part of an aggregated compilation of information.

16.5.3 We will release information about you when required by law to do so. Otherwise, we may release information about you, at our sole discretion, when we believe, that such release of information is reasonably necessary or appropriate to:

(a) enforce or apply the

Terms and Conditions of Use of this Site

; or

(b) to protect the rights, property or safety of bidorbuy, our users or others.

16.5.4 You also agree that we will not be liable to you or any other person for any loss, damage, expense, or other amounts incurred, savings foregone, or hardship suffered, by any person however arising (including where the cause cannot be determined), through the release of your personal details, in the event of (a) and (b) above.

16.5.5 We will also share information, including personally identifiable information about you, with our parent, subsidiaries and related entities in order to provide you with an international trading service. All these entities will treat your information according to this privacy policy and in the same manner they would treat their own users’ information.

 

 

 

 

We also cover this in our listing policy.

 

Thank you for your co-operation in this regard.

 

 

[qball 12]

To add to this, I believe in terms of the PPI Act we would be allowed to release this information, if it was deemed to be reasonable, if it was potentially in contravention of the law or suspected of infringing of rights of a third party, individual or company.

Edited November 23, 2012 by qball

[electronics4less 10]

I know what you are saying: You can do whatever the hell you want according to the terms and conditions. I get it.

 

As far as PPI goes, yes maybe you could be right. However I haven't found BoB to be reasonable.

 

And never mind explaining the process to be followed - your lack of explaining how it works means there is no process. BoB will decide how it will work, how long it will take. I also get that.

[qball 12]

You are correct, if you wish to sell on our site, you abide by our rules, plain and simple. Anything a seller sells on our site, which may result in liability, legal issues etc. can and will be removed, until such time as there is sufficient proof of authenticity.

 

The process is simple, we remove the item, we notify you and ask for proof. The investigations may take some time as we have to send the proof through to the correct people to verify.

Edited November 27, 2012 by qball

[electronics4less 10]

Remember, the sword cuts both ways. If you want to do business in South Africa, you have to abide by its laws and regulations.

 

I believe BidOrBuy has been abusing its power and to date consumers have been powerless to act against that. It is just too costly to fight you in court.

 

That is changing. PPI is just one law that will make a BIG change. The best part is that it will cost us nothing to log a case and the regulator will act on behalf of the consumer. And you really need to look at PPI - you cannot even use data for any other purpose that it was collected for, never mind disclose it to a third party. To the authorities, yes that would probably be legal IF YOU HAD GOOD CAUSE, but contrary to popular belief Micro$oft is not the authorities.

 

And no your terms and conditions will not be able to replace the law. You will legally not be able to say "By agreeing to this you....." and think that will hold up in court.

 

I'm surprised BoBpay-EFT still remains unchallenged, as you imply it's a trust account by forcing basic sellers to use it, and by telling buyers that it is the safe option to use and a risk to use anything else. You keep this money in trust, yet you charge money to have funds withdrawn and you do not pay interest while the funds are in the trust.

 

This should be reported to the FSB. It's probably just a matter of time before someone gets upset enough.

 

But let's wait for the law to be implemented and then we speak again.

[qball 12]

Oh, but we do comply and abide by the law... and yes our terms will never be higher than the law of the land, but they still have legal force and whilst you use our site, you are still subject to them.

 

I disagree with most of your comments, but that's a debate for another time. we will be happy to assist any regulatory body should any complaint be lodged.

 

We do have legal approval for bobPay. It is not a trust - this is made very clear and does not operate in any way, shape or form as a trust account. We also do not earn interest on the funds. Before you start making allegations Coen, please read up about the facts first. The "fee" we charge is the cash transfer fee we incur to transfer the money to you. We are not a bank, or a financial institution nor are we required to be, therefore we do not accumulate interest and pay it out. As the account balance moves up and down daily, there is no opportunity to earn interest, funds are paid out on a daily basis. In fact I have 20cents in my pocket, that's about the most we may get, if you want, pop past the office I'll give it to you out of my own pocket...

 

We do not tell buyers that if you don't use it you risk losing everything, it has proven to be a very successful payment method for sellers and buyers and has eliminated millions of rands worth of losses to buyers.

 

But anyway, let's stick to the topic... your anger towards Microsoft and bidorbuy for trying to ascertain whether something is genuine...