Militaria,hunters & sports shooters:some misconceptions,ignorance and hysteria

[wvdm1 10]

Dear members,

 

BOB has certain rules that we are repect as these are there to protect all parties.When do complainants go too far?

 

I'm an avid collecter,sport shooting enthusiast and I dont mind hunting,tho the latter is not my thing,etc.I mention this as I'm astounded by the average level of ignorance regarding SA's firearm laws,admittedly even by some gunowners and worse,schock horror,most ave members of the SAPS either dont understand and/or dont even know the relevent legislation!Fact sadly,the horror stories one hears often in gun circles are more often than not just quite bemusing but sad at the same time,often resulting in false arrests,wastefull litigation,etc etc.

 

I'm posting this thread as I got annoyed,irritated and yes,I'm even slightly amused when I learnt from a seller today,while collecting myorder, that they were "reported" to BOB,and wait for it,BOB sommer being treaten with the saps if they dont take action!

 

Without going into too much detail I sometimes wonder about the motives of people when they report negatively to BOB about sellers.Sure if you got ripped off,or the seller is taking a chance,etc.Good for people reporting about things if they think these goods are illegal,etc...

 

BUT,if you "suspect" something,surely you must make sure of your facts first though!As for threatening BOB because you claim to wear a uniform? Ignorance is bliss it seems dear sir/madam...,or is your attempt just plainly malicious in its intent?Nevermind the claim of being in the saps?

 

The FCA,clearly states what are considered prohibited/illegal components to sell,ie barrels and receivers.Without those,the rest is NOT considered a firearm and cannot be made into a firearm(!),and good luck trying to get those from anywhere without a license! Reporting a seller/sellers for selling unrestricted (sometimes freely available,sometimes scarce) components are just plain silly really.You cannot even if you're the best gunsmith on the planet manufacture or improvise a working firearm based on a safety component or a dustcover!How,please do share?

 

Most of us on BOB,incl myself cannot travel the country to search or a buy an item(any) that I cant readily source locally,thats the essence of BOB!Being silly is negatively affecting BOB and the depriving buyers such as myself.

 

Re the misperceptions/hysteria re/of vendors selling militaria,pieces of kit,clothing or even components of guns(and every sales category has its own peculiarities).Even if you "think"/assume parts are from a prohibited source,or you dont like guns or whatever,thats really fine,but again go check your facts ,eg a "R" rifle and a "LM" may look the same,share most of the same/identical components, but for example just because my car uses the same or similar tyres to a state owned car,doesnt make the tyres I'm selling or buying state owned items.That implies that every person thats got an extra set of tyres must by default be....

 

Using the tyre/motor car analogy is perhaps the easiest example,as the same as a car a firearm has "spares" or consumables,and on a firearms its everything exept for the barrel and receiver,its magazines,triggers,springs etc.They wear out,they break!Pretty much every serious competive shooter carries a range of spares specific to their model(s) they use,when a barrel or a receiver eventually need to be replaced tho, its lots of paperwork,much like the vin/engine no's on a car.

 

Please note that a component,in reality is pretty much worthless scrapmetal unless you happen to (legally) own the same model,it cannot eg be used to revive a deactivated gun either and the person that is in the illegal possession of a firearm will be pretty stupid to try buy stuff on a platform like BOB.If you had the right contacts you could/would buy these direct on the blackmarket,I somehow doubt if BOB would be the place to find it!

 

If you think,or are of the opinion that its easy/possible to "build" or "fix" deacts,your ignorance speaks for itself,once its dead (deactivated) it stays dead,even if you tried really really hard,you'd end up with a (non firing)replica.A gunsmith will want to know if you're stupid and/or suicidal and wouldnt even attemp it!Guys who build illegal firearms improvise virtually everything from scratch,its not easy adapting/remachining existing bits and pieces.If you had the knowhow and the necessary machinery,you wouldnt need BOB!

 

Offcourse there are pieces of uniform,etc that are illegal to own,possess(in SA) or use,but these are controlled/inventory items and how often are these seen on BOB?

 

I infact seriously cant say I've come accross any,let alone buy any as yet.I've however seen items that are not illegal by any stretch of the imagination being de-listed eg deactivated rifles on occasion.I also cant see a serious longterm BOB seller engaging in selling restricted items,doesnt make sense does it?I cant see them risking it...

 

This type of ignorance and/or stupidity hovers on being downright silly and dangerous and the intention mallicious.

 

Would be happy to hear what you guys think!

[admin 11]

Hi wvdm1,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

A policy decision was taken by bidorbuy not to allow de-activated firearms on the site as it is becoming increasingly difficult to police as some sellers cannot supply the deactivation certificates.

 

As for the reports coming in, you don't know half of it, we get threatened in various ways and sworn at on a daily basis, via email, reports and even on the phone. All in a days work :awesome:

[wvdm1 10]

Given the the amount of stuff I've collected over the years,some swopped from other people/collectors or gun owners,some bought from now-defunct shops/sources,picked up in a garage sale,or auction or fleamarket,or bought from a highstreet gunshop or gunsmith.Some stuff even from retired/deceased ex-sadf/sandf officers,who quite legally aquired their colections through official channels.Very few of these items will still have a receipt for me to prove/or be able to prove their source so to speak,and a dead man cant exactly attest to my innocence in the witness bench!.

 

If I wanted, heaven forbid to start selling of bits and pieces of my personal collection,I'm concerned that I'll be labled all sorts because "somebody" thinks its illegal,eg if I had to sell my lm to another guy and he doesnt want the "extras",I'd also sell them on BOB,and no it doesnt come from an illicit stash somewhere.Maybe its only that I replaced those pieces with some aftermarket accessories.A gunsmith selling off spares surplus to requirement will prob unfairly be labbled some sort of arms dealer or smuggler.

 

Clearly there are people who are bored or with too much time on their hands!Before going hysterical,keep in mind,some people make an income from selling stuff here!If you're not sure,by all means report a seller/an item!If you're a real cop you should know that its "innocent untill proven guilty" and threatening BOB isnt necessary!

Edited October 14, 2012 by wvdm1

[Marc05 10]

Agree 100% make sure of your facts before you run your mouth (keyboard) and report & threaten people. The Firearm Control Act is there for anyone to read and understand. Ignorance of the laws of the land has landed many in trouble and I'm not talking of those who "break" the laws, but those who arrest or charge people with "breaking" a non existent law (their own misguided interpretation of the law). The SAPS yearly pays millions for cases where people were illegally arrested and detained by overzealous police officers.

To summarise the FCA the parts that are controlled (has to be licensed) are: barrel, frame (barrel mounted on), receiver (barrel attached to) and firearm parts that include: slide (pistol), bolt or breach block of firearm. These parts are what make a firearm a firearm, without these parts a firearm will not work.

The other parts attached to the firearm such as sights, butt stock, hand grip, scope etc are not controlled and can be sold and traded on the open market as they are not controlled.

[luke peter 10]

To summarise the FCA the parts that are controlled (has to be licensed) are: barrel, frame (barrel mounted on), receiver (barrel attached to) and firearm parts that include: slide (pistol), bolt or breach block of firearm. These parts are what make a firearm a firearm, without these parts a firearm will not work.

The other parts attached to the firearm such as sights, butt stock, hand grip, scope etc are not controlled and can be sold and traded on the open market as they are not controlled.

 

This^^^ with the ammendment that, in the case of semi-auto pistols, slides do not require individual licensing. If you have a licensed firearm of the same type as the slife in question, you can purchase the spare slide without additional license requirements.

[wvdm1 10]

This however is an example of what cannot be sold:

 

Other Clothing & Equipment - Shooting paraphernalia including live bullets! See below.... for sale in Cape Town (ID:85991286)

[admin 11]

Hi wvdm1,

 

Right you are, thank you.