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Cold Sea

The three sides of a coin

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Cold Sea

My understanding of rim nicks are that it happens during the minting process, not uncommon in Unc coins, and should not be confused with rim damage or rim dings. Rim damaged coins normally won’t grade, while TPG’s will grade a coin with a rim nick a point or two lower. I saw a R5 PF69 inauguration with a nick for sale on BOB the other day, and even an MS70 (a US modern) with a rim nick, but think it must have been a grading oversight .

 

I acquired an early MS65 with a nick a while ago, and thought that instead of lowering the grade, mention it on the slab details. Relying on a TPG's description, you buy “sight-unseen” the slab and not the coin. If this is seen by the TPG's to be part of the minting process, then maybe they should mention it on the slab details, just as other minting oddities are mentioned in the description.

Edited by Cold Sea

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jwither

From what I know, a rim nick or "edge knock" could happen either during or after the minting process.

 

From the standpoint of grading by a TPG, the distinction would be that if the damage was significant enough, post mint damage should result in a "details" grade while damage during the striking process should not. Of course, this assumes that it is possible to know the difference on when it happened.

 

But regardless of the specifics, rim nicks should absolutely reduce the grade. I do not see how this damage would result in either an MS-69 or MS-70 grade.

 

As for mentioning on the slab, I do not believe this is necessary. Personally, I would not be interested in buying such a coin unless it was rare or with very limited availability and then only at a possibly substantially discounted price.

Edited by jwither

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Cold Sea
I would not be interested in buying such a coin unless it was rare or with very limited availability and then only at a possibly substantially discounted price.

 

This is the point. I would not have been interested either if it was mentioned by the seller or in the details. So you learn.

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alloway65

Some coin graders do reference Rim Nicks!

 

452156_121012114807_Image_(241).gif

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Pierre_Henri
From what I know, a rim nick or "edge knock" could happen either during or after the minting process.

 

From the standpoint of grading by a TPG, the distinction would be that if the damage was significant enough, post mint damage should result in a "details" grade while damage during the striking process should not. Of course, this assumes that it is possible to know the difference on when it happened.

 

But regardless of the specifics, rim nicks should absolutely reduce the grade. I do not see how this damage would result in either an MS-69 or MS-70 grade.

 

As for mentioning on the slab, I do not believe this is necessary. Personally, I would not be interested in buying such a coin unless it was rare or with very limited availability and then only at a possibly substantially discounted price.

 

That is exactly as I understand it also.

 

And if this may add anything :- a rim bump occurs on the rim - the "third side" of the coin as Cold Sea so nicely put it.

 

A rim nick, however, occurs on the obverse's or reverse's outer edge ("on the edge side" of the front or back of the coin)

 

Both could have been the result of either the minting process or human handling - and both will reduce the value of the coin. But if it could be proved that whatever of the two was caused by the minting rather by human handling - the financial valued damage should be much less if due to the minting process.

 

Pierre

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Cold Sea

Hi alloway, thanks for posting the photo, but it's a bit small to make out the description. I contacted NGC to get their view on this, and received this prompt reply:

 

 

Thank you for the question. A rim nick, like contact marks on the obverse or reverse, can occur without the coin entering in circulation. For example, if the coins are placed in bags by the Mint or counted by a machine, they can acquire rim nicks. Therefore, a rim nick does not necessarily preclude a Mint State grade.

Of course, as with all forms of contact marks, the severity can significantly affect the coin's grade. Very minor rim nicks may have no or little influence on the final grade assigned. A small rim nicks on an uncirculated coin will often lower its grade, usually by a point. More significant ones or numerous small rim nicks may receive an NGC Details grade along with the notation "Rim Damage".

 

Max Spiegel

 

It seems that NGC share jwither's view that smaller nicks, even though visible to the naked eye, need not be mentioned. I am still not convinced. To me it's like being just a little bit pregnant.

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Patricia_Gert

Good day all,

 

My view on this: If NGC start listing all the minor detrimental surface conditions on the slab, the slab label would have to be an A4 size ;-) (Ok, I am exaggerating).

 

Any coin graded MS69 and lower will have some condition which brings the grade down. This implies that a MS61 coin could have a minor rim nick, minor hairline scratches, minor digs, minor scuffs, bag marks, a weak strike, contact marks, etc. All of these conditions will bring down the grade and does not need be indicated on the slab since the grade implies that the coin have some detrimental conditions which bring down the grade. Obviously if any (or a few) of these conditions are major problems, NGC will provide the coin just a "details" grading and state the reason.

 

Kind regards

Gert

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jwither

I have not paid attention to specifics on rim flaws because I do not recall ever owning a graded coin with one. But I have owned and seen images for a decent number of MS-61 and even MS-62 coins, including those from SA.

 

From what I have seen, coins with these grades typically have quite a few surface marks but it just depends upon the size of the coin and the design on how the grade is impacted.

 

If you look at a coin like the US Morgan Dollar, this is a big coin (crown sized 38mm) with a relatively large field surface (the area surrounding the design). Low grade MS Morgans not only have numerous "bag marks" in the fields, but also on the facial part of the portrait. Because these are very visible, coins in these grades are not very attractive, and from what I know, collectors do not really want them unless it is one of the scarcer (though almost always still common) dates. Usually, the price differences are minimal between these two grades and one in MS-63 or MS-64 so there is no reason to even buy it and I would not.

 

With SA coins, in my opinion, KGV in an MS-61 or MS-62 grade look the best while those of KGVI or QEII look the worst. In this case, the reason is due to the difference in the portrait design. The KGV portrait does not have a flat surface so any contact marks are hidden much better.

 

Many KGVI coins in these grades are unattractive - most in my opinion - though not always due just to contact marks. I do not recall ever seeing a single QE in either of these grades (whether graded or not) that i would even want.

 

This is why when the discussion on the financial prospects of these coins has come up, I have always expressed my opinion that for KGVI or QEII, it is poor for all QEII in these two grades and the same applies to most KGVI.

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