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Wild Olive Art

Same " original art " sold repeatedly .

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wayjen
Can I please order a naked lady on a donkey ? :whistling:

 

With the caption, "how does my a$$ look?"

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JANDS

".....Products of the untalented, sold by the unscrupulous to the utterly bewildered...."

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wayjen

This is one I did when Grant and I were making our own Clauerhout paintings on the forum a few years back, could I make a mint with it ?

58f5a7405b78d_amp73amp77amp65amp71amp69amp95amp48amp48amp54amp46.jpg.b3e6abcdfd227c60d529c46833a862ef.jpg

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Mad about Jack
This is one I did when Grant and I were making our own Clauerhout paintings on the forum a few years back, could I make a mint with it ?

 

Hey, where is my naked lady !

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wayjen
Hey, where is my naked lady !

 

She fell off, I only managed to get a picture of her a.. err...donkey.

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Wild Olive Art
Wild Olive Art

The seller continues unabated !

58f5a74081330_morefakes.jpg.c96415d306cecbc466a6c838bf3985ce.jpg

These 2 paintings are absolutely identical except for the area at the bottom where the original artist signature has been cropped .

Oils - Under the street lights #1 Oil painting 90cm x 90cm (Large painting) for sale in Witbank (ID:77454282)

 

WHEN DREAMS COME TRUE - Original Recreation Oil Painting On Canvas By Leonid Afremov - ONLY TODAY $139 - FREE SHIPPING (Auction ID: 172734, End Time : Oct. 05, 2012 04:46:21) - Afremov official online Art Gallery

 

more identical copies are available from Chinese art factories .

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lilythepink

Is this legal to copy an original and then claim it as one's own work? Sounds very much like replica perfumes, etc, which aren't allowed on BoB!

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Wild Olive Art

Nope , it is NOT legal at all . It is an infringement on copyright laws, but this does not even appear to be a copy . NO amature artist would be able to copy a painting 100% and certainly not a palette knife oil painting like this one . Every single blot of colour is identical . Identically positioned , identical shade . Even somebody really experienced at reproductions would not get the painting identical .

 

More bizarre is that I won a painting by this seller on auction yesterday and guess what ??? She refused to sell me the painting on grounds that I have been stalking her ?????????

I did report some of her listings to community watch but they were clearly not original work - they were reproductions.

The painting I won was listed as a reproduction and I won it fairly and squarely .

The seller reported me to community watch

 

I think she has something to hide and does not want somebody with experience in the art industry to buy one of these works .

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lilythepink

Oh dear, Wild Olive! Have you suggested that she visit the forum and see all the lurking around that we do? LOL :whistling:

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Wild Olive Art

Sent you a pm Lilythepink - let me know what you think ?

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JohnBenn

And here is one straight from China and very poorly done.

The worst part is I knew this Artist,before she died in 2011.All her dedication to the Art world is being reduced to this.

 

The original Artist Marion Rose.

Straight Forward Introduction - Bison Painting by Marion Rose - Straight Forward Introduction - Bison Fine Art Prints and Posters for Sale

 

Reproduction sold by Vividgallery here on BoB.Even with a different signature.

Oils - Hand-painted Canvas Signed Oil Painting 60cmx50cm Red Bull Animals RR279-02 was listed for R85.00 on 4 Oct at 16:01 by vividgallery in China (ID:76800999)

 

china.jpg.2fef28ececf05cf78622caf1ff6dcbaf.jpg

The reproduction looks like it was painted by a child,I would hate to see what a reproduction of a reproduction looks like.:weird:

 

Without permission from the Artist any image remains under international copyright law for 75years.

straightforward-introduction-bison.jpg.4c1c013d3b59074b4f2688d525ad8b60.jpg

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JohnBenn
The seller continues unabated !

[ATTACH=CONFIG]4019[/ATTACH]

These 2 paintings are absolutely identical except for the area at the bottom where the original artist signature has been cropped .

Oils - Under the street lights #1 Oil painting 90cm x 90cm (Large painting) for sale in Witbank (ID:77454282)

 

WHEN DREAMS COME TRUE - Original Recreation Oil Painting On Canvas By Leonid Afremov - ONLY TODAY $139 - FREE SHIPPING (Auction ID: 172734, End Time : Oct. 05, 2012 04:46:21) - Afremov official online Art Gallery

 

more identical copies are available from Chinese art factories .

 

Hello!! same paintings being sold by vividgallery.And some more by the same Artist.

Oils - Pallet-knife Stock Oil Painting 20"x24" Night Rain Street Bench Lover mm192 for sale in China (ID:77212246)

Edited by JohnBenn

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Wild Olive Art

I am not going to let this rest . It absolutely disgusts me that a so called artist has the audacity to list obviously reproduced copies as her own original work. VANSA ( Visual Arts Network of SA ) are currently presenting copyright workshops around the country and I will forward them this link for their interest and input .

If you want to sell reproduced copies of work , go ahead , the art world is already flooded with this trash but DON'T con buyers into believing that you are selling original works of your own as a South African artist !!

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lilythepink

@ John Benn - do you understand "Original recreation"?? What the heck is that? Why doesn't the replicator call a spade a spade?

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JohnBenn

That is FAAAAR from an original recreation:blink1:.That's is a plain stolen reproduction.:sad2:

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lilythepink

Well all I know is that we've been told time and again that FAKES (which reproductions are unless there is proof of the artist's permission for such) are not allowed on BoB.

 

I wish BoB would consider how many people (who know a lot more than I do) are querying this particular type of stuff being sold on BoB!

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Wild Olive Art

I find this very hard to swallow. As an artist , selling on Bidorbuy is generally frowned upon by the greater artist community. Especially listing an authentic work of art at R1 !!! But some of us can't afford to be starving and mysterious , we have kids to feed and educate and Bidorbuy has proved to be a good income ( or at least money for bread and milk ) . I have spent a lot of time and effort defending the site and promoting the credibility of the art section. Yesterday one of my contacts on Facebook who is also a regular buyer on the site posted a link to a listing by this seller and a comment as to the authenticity of the art.

Right away there were numerous comments from people who refuse to venture onto the site because they are afraid of being defrauded !

 

When sellers lack integrity it affects ALL of us. Unfortunately bad experiences are often voiced more than good experiences are and word gets around fast enough when somebody has been taken for a ride buying online !

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Personalize

I have been reading this thread for a while now and hoping to see a more educated

 

response to this matter.

 

 

 

However all that's constantly comes up is photo comparison. "This painting is

 

like this, and this one is like that, and this one has a brush stroke and this one doesn't"

 

 

 

Being a art collector and a old student at Faculty of Liberal art & Professional Studies.

 

I would like to raise a few pointers on all three persons involved, yes believe it or not

 

there are three.

 

 

 

Those who reproduce art

 

Those who are offended by it and

 

The leading giant who allows it (Bidorbuy itself)

 

 

 

Please note my arguments are not to disadvantage anyone but mere to raise a

 

genuine argument for all

 

 

 

I feel if no genuine argument is raised then this thread will go on for another 50

 

pages with more and more photos of comparison and no conclusion. Each time

 

I look at this thread its just another photo to look at with a poor argument.

 

Shouldn't comunitywatch threads come to some conclusion, some action to

 

be taken, or if no action then some decision, atleast.

 

 

 

Reproduction of art is just horrible, isn't it? The fact that it can be done is just

 

beyond believe. And many feel offended, and rightfully so. Artists should paint

 

their own stuff and not be a copy cat. If you can paint that good then paint your

 

own original paintings.

 

 

 

But hold on, When considering what kids are taught today, if there were only

 

one single Mona Liza and no reproductions of this very controversial painting

 

then, would our kids know about this painting? If there was no reproductions

 

of Picasso or Van Gogh then would they know about these artists. I am afraid

 

not. And I say this with much concern. As much as these reproductions offend

 

us, these original artists would be very much ancient history and not known by anyone

 

that's younger then 30. These paintings are repainted and printed on clothes

 

on bracelets, in calendars. The list goes on and on and with it more young

 

people get to know about these famous masters of art

 

 

 

Secondly lets look at the laws of reproduction. When a painting is sold as a repo

 

and its stated that is not original then the law does not do much. Please note

 

I didn't say the doesn't do anything, I say in some cases not much can be done

 

Sad but true, that's the way it is. However If it is stated to be a original and it isn't

 

then its a fake and then a claim of fraud, infringement and few other charges can be laid.

 

 

 

Now let me move on to the signage of a painting, what does the law say about that.

 

Well for one if You put your name on a original painting that you didn't paint

 

then that's fraud and people have been locked up for that.

 

 

 

But lets just say. your sister inlaw, who really aggravates you and always needs to be

 

better then the Joneses, comes to your house and brags about this repo Claude Monet

 

painting she bought on holiday in Paris, you think wow that is a stunning painting

 

and she is going on and on and on about this lovely repo painting and the painting

 

is signed with the most beautiful names, something like "Rozella Duwai". And you

 

have to admit that this is the most stunning piece you've seen.After a cup of coffee and alot

 

more boasting she finally leaves,

 

 

 

It just so happens that the following day you go the mall and just as you get out the

 

driveway there is the frigged Capetonian man with no front teeth and the biggest smile

 

at your gate and all you hear is " Lekka leke plantjie and paintings mevrou".

 

"Hulle is so so so leke" and you think ag, why not this frigged man with his funny

 

ascent and joyful smile put a smile on your face and you going to see what he is is selling,

 

And there it is, There it is to your amazement the same type of repo painting your sister

 

inlaw boasted about. But hold on this painting is bigger, better, more beautiful and

 

even much brighter, You actually can see her with envy if she saw you with this painting,

 

and then you pick it up raise your arms out to have a better look and as you

 

admiring this painting, O nooooooooooo, Your jaw drops and your mouth hangs open

 

and you look at this guy who has a even bigger smile in utter amazement. Its also

 

signed but not by Rozella Duwai or some enchanted name, Noooo the signage reads

 

Spykerman. Spykerman!!!!And you ask this guy to just pronounced it so that you are

 

sure that you hear what you read. And he confirms, he painted this and his

 

girlfriend calls him spyker but his friends call him spykerman. Now what do you do?

 

Can you resign it? Yes, can you put your own name on it? Yes. Because its a repo

 

Because its not a original it can be resigned. After you purchase it. This is important

 

to remember, why is that? once you bought a repo its yours, its your possession and

 

many of the rights that goes along with originals does not apply to repo paintings.

 

This signage can be done with or without the consent of the artist who reproduced

 

this painting. But please I state again, this cannot be done with originals!!! You will

 

be locked up. Also just for your own protection, Laws change constantly, and if you

 

can take the time to get the seller/artist to give you the right to resign a repo painting

 

then you are even more protected. Have him send you a email, or right a letter and

 

go have it signed at the police station, Please I am not saying this is a must but

 

to insure a bit more protection for yourself, rather be safe then sorry. Like I said

 

laws change and make sure you are well informed about laws when you do buy

 

reproduction art. Also remember when you do buy repo paintings online you

 

are even more protected, cause you will have actual evidence of sale, Sorry

 

I know alot of people don't want to hear this. Its because we choose to walk

 

around deaf that we are uninformed.

 

 

 

Now last but not least, We cant complain about the cheese if the cheesmaker is at fault

 

Can we? Bidorbuy doesnt just know about reproduction paintings being sold, they

 

actually have a category for reproduction paintings. and so does every single other

 

online market place!!! All of these paintings exclude the word original, and by law

 

that is exactly the way it should be. Should this category be removed? Then

 

what about generic perfumes? I can assure you the list can go on and on and

 

as time goes on we will find more categories to remove. I bet this so called

 

largest online market place wont be so large any more, would it? (So once again

 

my argument is against bob and for bob) We need to be informed and look

 

at both arguments on both sides.

 

 

 

I hope I didn't offend anyone by replying to this thread. Its not my intent to

 

accuse Bidorbuy or accuse the artists who repo paintings or to step on

 

 

the toes of those who are upset about repo paintings. We cant change

 

what we don't acknowledge.

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admin

Hi Personalize,

 

Thank you for your comments. In my personal view, not knowing anything about paintings or the laws governing replica paintings and their signatures, it is at least unethical to sign your name on a mass produced replica of any painting. Full stop.

 

I am sure that the powers that be are looking into these listings.

 

Please supply the documents that I requested from you on 29/09/12.

 

Thank you.

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Personalize
Hi Personalize,

 

Thank you for your comments. In my personal view, not knowing anything about paintings or the laws governing replica paintings and their signatures, it is at least unethical to sign your name on a mass produced replica of any painting. Full stop.

 

I am sure that the powers that be are looking into these listings.

 

Please supply the documents that I requested from you on 29/09/12.

 

Thank you.

 

Hi admin, Please advise, did you send me a pm or a email message? I dont see a pm in my inbox here? Infact there is no messages in my inbox.

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admin
Hi admin, Please advise, did you send me a pm or a email message? I dont see a pm in my inbox here? Infact there is no messages in my inbox.

 

Hi Personalize,

 

I sent the request through the system by email, will send it again right now.

 

Thank you.

 

Andries

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JohnBenn

Personalize I'm not sure where you get your information,basically you are saying it's OK to just reproduce and everyone has to live with it.That's the same as pirating a DVD/CD etc.

There is also a huge difference between prints in books where the author asked permission first either from the gallery/museum or living Artist,and reproducing in oils - claiming that the paintings are signed by the Artist.

 

"When you buy an original painting, you buy the physical object to have and enjoy. In most circumstances you own only the artwork, not the copyright to it. That remains with the artist unless they specifically sign over their copyright to the buyer, or it was done as work for hire, or the copyright has expired.

You don't automatically acquire the right to reproduce a painting as cards, prints, posters, on t-shirts, etc, along with the painting. It's the same as when you buy a book, film, music, vase, carpet, table, etc: you're acquiring the right to own and enjoy the item but not the right to reproduce it."

 

And this is exactly the same when it comes to images of paintings on the internet,just because they are there doesn't mean they are in the public domain.And you can just take and use them as you want.

Edited by JohnBenn

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Wild Olive Art

Copyright aside, selling off mass produced art as " original south african " and signing it as one's own is basically fraud . Buyers are expecting to be investing in one of a kind and in many instances are bidding much higher prices than they would if they knew the work was a mass reproduction. Even if the paintings have been copied exactly ( highly unlikely ) by the " artist" , credit must be given to the original artist of the work . To claim a piece of art as ones own , when thousands of copies are available world wide is simply ludicrous !

 

Just because people all over the world are making copies of art and have absolutely no respect for the laws of copyright , does not make it acceptable !

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