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havilah

The neutral rating I gave has disappeared

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havilah    10
havilah

I've only today realised that a neutral rating I gave a seller in May 2012, has disappeared. I know for sure that my rating had been published on the seller's profile because I received a rather unpleasant phone call from her.

 

Is the removal of feedback a common occurrence on BoB? I didn't receive any correspondence or alerts from BoB in this regard.

 

Is there any point in trying to post the same feedback again or is it likely to keep disappearing until I lie and say something complimentary?

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geewhizz    20
geewhizz

I dont think anyone is in a position to comment on why a neutral rating was removed if we dont know the circumstances surrounding it but consider this.

A user bought an item from me on the 3rd Dec which was paid on 7th Dec and sent on 8th Dec. She rates me 8 months later on 18th July "Took too long"--Neutral rating.This rating appears right on top on the night of the Wed crazy auctions when users could decide not to bid.

Why do buyers not phone or email the seller before becoming trigger happy with the rating button?

Most sellers will sort it out.I would do so chop!! Chop!!.--Sad

Consider the position of sellers who have to source stock,photograph it,load it,sell it,post it and all the buyer does is click a few buttons.We need you, believe me, but we need appreciation and consideration.

I marketed for a long time but by selling online we become like a rat in a hole with cats hissing above us waiting for us to make a wrong move.

The antique markets and fairs are beckoning me back.

When a buyer is unhappy and communicates through a rating instead of giving the seller a chance to sort it out, it is very presumptious.We can try and respond by emailing the buyer but will just be ignored.So our next move is to waste Bidorbuys time by appealing the rating.It reminds me of 2 year olds "Give me my marbles"

I can easily tell a reasonable buyer by the way they react to a mistake and it certainly does not include communicating with me through a rating.

Edited by geewhizz

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havilah    10
havilah

Thanks for your post geewhizz, but your post doesn't answer the two questions I posed which were:

 

1. Is the removal of feedback a common occurrence on BoB?

and

2. Is there any point in trying to post the same feedback again or is it likely to keep disappearing until I lie and say something complimentary?

 

I was hoping someone with years of exposure to the Ways of BoB would give me some information. I just haven't had it happen to me previously and I want to learn from this experience.

 

I was not hoping to start a discussion about whether or not my feedback was appropriate given the circumstances of the transaction. else I certainly would've given all the details.

 

Does anyone know the answers to my questions, please?

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geewhizz    20
geewhizz

1) It is a common ocurrence if it is warranted---Why should I, for instance, sit with a neutral rating when I posted an item promptly?

The post office must have taken 8 months to deliver it, I assume, since I had no communication as to when she received it.

2)Never post a rating without communicating your dissatisfaction with the seller first.

If you are unhappy about feedback that has been removed phone Bidorbuy.

Your questions are ambiguous

Edited by geewhizz

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havilah    10
havilah
1) It is a common ocurrence if it is warranted

2)Never post a rating without communicating your dissatisfaction with the buyer first.

If you are unhappy about feedback that has been removed phone Bidorbuy.

 

 

1. Who decides whether it's warranted or not? The seller? Why would his/her view of the transaction have more weight than mine? It would hardly be unbiased. The seller also has the option to respond to my rating - why not post a mitigating reply and leave it at that?

2. You meant communicating with the seller, in this example.

 

I'm not partial to trying to resolve things by phone - I much prefer having explanations in writing. So I've written to communitywatch@bidorbuy.co.za to find out what happened, and why.

 

At this stage I'm still trying to assess whether or not there's any point in posting my experience of the transaction in a neutral feedback if it's going to keep disappearing until I say something that adequately flatters the seller.

 

Is there anyone reading this who's had similar experience with disappearing feedback because it didn't quite meet the expectations of the recipient? How did it end?

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geewhizz    20
geewhizz

I think I should have answered your first question more like this

1)It is far more common for sellers to sit with unwarranted neutral and negative ratings than it is for them to be removed.

The reasons are that Bob dont want to get involved in ratimgs. It is understandable since users lie their way out of situations and all sorts of excuses are made.

If Bob have proof they will remove it and I think you are questioning their ability to determine that.

This is the reason I say, phone Bob

No one has attempted to answer your question on the forum because it is too ambiguous. No one knows the circumstances.

If we knew the gory details we may be able to answer your question.

I think if we did not have a rating system Bob would need half the staff they employ

Edited by geewhizz

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moodTime    10
moodTime

Why waste energy worrying about a rating that was removed a few months ago? Bidorbuy does not remove any ratings without adequate supporting evidence. The seller in this case must have supplied adequate proof therefore the rating was removed. Was the sale concluded in the end, did you make payement and receive the goods? Prehaps the seller filed a SNC and the transaction was canceled - if there was no transaction you will not be able to leave a rating.

 

I do however agree with geewhizz, we dont have the facts so it is very difficult to answer your questions. Give Bidorbuy a call, they are very helpful.

Edited by moodTime

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kyle2    10
kyle2

Ratings are the life and soul of some sellers on BoB, When a buyer rates seller negatively or with a neutral, the reason needs to be very very very good and then only after all communication has broken down and the matter is unresolved. Most sellers will do whatever is nescessary to keep a good rating, but unfortunately a lot of buyers, especially new ones, would rather not pick up the phone and state what their problem is, this is a cowardly act in my opinion.It is very easy, in fact too easy for buyers to slap on that negative or neutral, I still maintain, a Q&A test should precede the option of posting a negative or neutral, the first question being "Did you contact the seller?"

 

If the rating has been removed, as was said above, it was probably warrented, and yes BoB tries to look after both sellers and Buyers, in most cases, repeat offenders aside.

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geewhizz    20
geewhizz

Amen!! Amen!!

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havilah    10
havilah
.... When a buyer rates seller negatively or with a neutral, the reason needs to be very very very good and then only after all communication has broken down and the matter is unresolved.

 

Hello kyle2 and thank you for your input.

 

I don't accept what you're saying, mainly because this "rule" you're presenting almost as fact doesn't appear anywhere on the BidorBuy site. What it actually says about a Buyer leaving feedback is quite simply the following:

 

"Buyers should rate sellers based on seller service, communication, delivery and product quality."

 

I therefore rate each of the four variables as one of the following: Positive, Neutral and Negative. The ratings I allocate are based on a mix of fact (is the product as advertised, did the seller respond to communications, was the item posted as promptly as promised) and subjective experience (is the product what I expected, was the seller gracious and helpful in their communication, was the parcel adequately wrapped and the contents protected, and would I recommend others to buy from this person).

 

When my evaluation for those four variables ends up at one Positive, two Neutrals and a Negative I will leave a Neutral feedback. The only basis on which someone (the seller, BidorBuy, or someone on this forum) can object to this rating is the knowledge that either a) the facts on which I based my assessment aren't the facts, and/or b) my feelings and impressions are invalid.

 

I am prepared to debate the accuracy of the facts with someone who wants to engage me, but don't even think of suggesting that my feelings and opinions are invalid. My perceptions are my reality and you (any reader) should honour the fact that I took the time and trouble to share them publicly for the sole reason that I'm community spirited.

 

While I'm on the subject of subjective impressions, my impression is that forum-ites who have responded to my very general enquiry about the inner workings of BidorBuy's feedback system couldn't help but assume that I didn't try to contact the seller first and the nuance of their replies were accusatory (BidorBuy doesn't make mistakes so you must've done something wrong and you therefore deserve to have your feedback removed). Amplified by the support from other forum-ites who click-supported these views. So if I had to rate my experience of the forum based on this thread, I'd give it a Neutral because the comments were unhelpful and made me feel I needed to defend myself.

 

Let me reiterate: I didn't post my questions to find out WHY my feedback was removed. I have asked BidorBuy to answer that question (I'm still waiting).

 

Since there appears to be some confusion about my questions, I'll list them again with some sample answers just so you get the idea of what I was looking for:

 

1. Is removal of feedback a common occurrence on BidorBuy?

 

Helpful answers would be along the lines of "No - I've never had any of my feedbacks removed, whether they're positive, neutral or negative", or "Yes, just about every time I've left a neutral or negative feedback it's disappeared" or "Well, one neutral was removed because I'd inadvertently transgressed by adding a URL in my feedback - but they sent me an e-mail to alert me".

 

Here is the second question again:

 

2. Is there any point in posting a neutral again, or will it keep disappearing until the seller approves of it?

 

Helpful answers would be along the lines of "Go ahead, mine didn't disappear the next time" or "Don't bother, it'll keep disappearing - mine did" or "You might not be able to post again, even if there is a "leave feedback" link".

 

Thank you for reading. We may have learnt from each other.

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havilah    10
havilah
Why waste energy worrying about a rating that was removed a few months ago?

 

Hello moodTime and thank you for your input.

 

The answer to your question is: it's the principle of the matter. If BidorBuy will secretly remove their customers' feedback then I will have no faith in the feedback system and will probably stop taking part in it.

 

Your words (Why waste energy) give me the impression you think I'm pursuing something futile - that you wouldn't have bothered. Let me ask you this: Should I not worry about the rating being removed because it happened some months ago? So if it had happened, like, last week it would be OK for me to worry about it?

 

Or do you mean I shouldn't ever worry about a rating being removed?

 

 

Bidorbuy does not remove any ratings without adequate supporting evidence. The seller in this case must have supplied adequate proof therefore the rating was removed.

 

The seller must've supplied adequate proof of... ? Proof of what? Proof that I actually enjoyed the challenge of doing business with him/her?

 

 

I do however agree with geewhizz, we dont have the facts so it is very difficult to answer your questions.

 

See, you don't need the facts of my transaction to answer my questions. I was hoping YOU would tell me about YOUR experience with disappearing feedback.

 

So there. Maybe you were right, moodTime - maybe this part of my quest has been somewhat a waste of energy. Thank you for playing.

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Not1CentMore    10
Not1CentMore
1. Is removal of feedback a common occurrence on BidorBuy?

No. If either Buyer or Seller 'feels' the rating left for them by the other party to the transaction is not true and accurate, they may contact BoB requesting the feedback left be reviewed/removed. BoB rarely gets involved in ratings, but will if the rating left was unwarranted and/or out of spite.

 

I have had a handful of negatives removed over the last 7+ years mainly because Buyer did not READ BEFORE BIDDING and instead of putting on his/her big boy/big girl pants and admitting they made a mistake, they run straight to the negative button and play 'bash the Seller' in the comment section.

 

2. Is there any point in posting a neutral again, or will it keep disappearing until the seller approves of it?

 

A Seller CANNOT remove Buyer's rating for Seller. A Buyer CANNOT remove a Seller's rating for Buyer.

 

I am prepared to debate the accuracy of the facts with someone who wants to engage me, but don't even think of suggesting that my feelings and opinions are invalid. My perceptions are my reality and you (any reader) should honour the fact that I took the time and trouble to share them publicly for the sole reason that I'm community spirited.

 

'Engage'? Sounds more like wanting to 'do battle'. No one has said, much less 'suggested', your feelings and opinions are not 'valid'. You are correct. Your perceptions are YOUR reality...and yours alone. That doesn't mean they have to be mine or any other Forum Member's.

 

'Honor' is another word for 'respect'. I cannot speak for all Forum Members, but I feel if a question is important enough to be asked, it is important enough to be answered. I 'respect' any one 'asking', but that same 'courtesy' should be extended to the one 'answering'.

 

Other Members have TRIED to answer your question(s) and explain how/why a rating can be removed by BoB. Seems each time someone tries, their 'hand is smacked'...verbally.

 

There is, as they say here, "no sense in beating a dead horse". Perhaps waiting for a response from BoB might be the best option. They ARE busy folk and your inquiry is but one of many they receive on any given day. They DO answer inquiries. Sometimes it just takes a little while.

 

Ruthie

 

(I 'played nice' :whistling:)

Edited by Not1CentMore

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geewhizz    20
geewhizz

I still think that you should state the facts concerning this transaction(Without mentioning the users name).

This is the way most users get an opinion on the forum.

To expect a "yes" and "no" answer is impossible.

If there was a hard and fast rule to the rating system too many users would be sitting with unfair ratings--which ,by the way,is a fact anyway.

My question to you is--What would you have done if you had bought the item at game??

Write a letter to the newspaper and complain? No! You would phone game or go in and complain face to face.

Now treat your sellers the same way.

Edited by geewhizz

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kyle2    10
kyle2

Duplicated post

Edited by kyle2
Duplicaed post? don't know how that happened

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kyle2    10
kyle2

'Engage'? Sounds more like wanting to 'do battle'. No one has said, much less 'suggested', your feelings and opinions are not 'valid'. You are correct. Your perceptions are YOUR reality...and yours alone. That doesn't mean they have to be mine or any other Forum Member's.

 

'Honor' is another word for 'respect'. I cannot speak for all Forum Members, but I feel if a question is important enough to be asked, it is important enough to be answered. I 'respect' any one 'asking', but that same 'courtesy' should be extended to the one 'answering'.

 

Other Members have TRIED to answer your question(s) and explain how/why a rating can be removed by BoB. Seems each time someone tries, their 'hand is smacked'...verbally.

 

There is, as they say here, "no sense in beating a dead horse". Perhaps waiting for a response from BoB might be the best option. They ARE busy folk and your inquiry is but one of many they receive on any given day. They DO answer inquiries. Sometimes it just takes a little while.

 

Ruthie

 

(I 'played nice' :whistling:)

 

Well said Ruthie, you've summed it up nicely....

 

To Havilah .... Your technical analysis is quite impressive, but you really are taking things way too seriously, its like reading a crime scene report or watching an episode of CSI Miami, however as this is how you see things, this is to be respected, but I assure you that anyone reading this thread, especially a seller, would not want you to buy any of their items or have any dealings with you.

 

There is an old Chinese proverb that goes something like this. "He who slings Mud, loses Ground"

Perhaps you should try selling some things to see what the other side of the coin is all about.

 

I truely wish you well and hope you lighten up a bit.

Edited by kyle2

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havilah    10
havilah

Hello Not1CentMore and thank you for your input.

 

No. If either Buyer or Seller 'feels' the rating left for them by the other party to the transaction is not true and accurate, they may contact BoB requesting the feedback left be reviewed/removed.

 

Yes, I understand that. Do you know whether or not, during the process of review by BoB, the party who left the feedback under review is contacted for their input before a final decision is made?

 

 

BoB rarely gets involved in ratings, but will if the rating left was unwarranted and/or out of spite.

 

I wonder how will they know that it is unwarranted if they receive representations from only one of the parties?

 

I have had a handful of negatives removed over the last 7+ years mainly because Buyer did not READ BEFORE BIDDING ...

 

OK, but they were someone else's negative feedback, not yours. I'm looking for posts from people who've had their own feedback removed.

 

 

A Seller CANNOT remove Buyer's rating for Seller. A Buyer CANNOT remove a Seller's rating for Buyer.

 

I don't know why you're saying this in bold. I didn't anywhere suggest that they could.

 

'Engage'? Sounds more like wanting to 'do battle'. No one has said, much less 'suggested', your feelings and opinions are not 'valid'. You are correct. Your perceptions are YOUR reality...and yours alone. That doesn't mean they have to be mine or any other Forum Member's.

 

I meant 'engage' in the context of debating with BoB and the seller the validity of my feedback. I was not referring to people or posts in this forum.

 

I cannot speak for all Forum Members, but I feel if a question is important enough to be asked, it is important enough to be answered.

 

OK, you may. I don't. I've heard plenty of just plain silly questions.

 

Other Members have TRIED to answer your question(s) and explain how/why a rating can be removed by BoB. Seems each time someone tries, their 'hand is smacked'...verbally.

 

I don't know to what smacking you are referring. I have been nothing but polite and appreciative of each person's post. If I say "thank you, but you've not answered my question" it's hardly equal to smacking you.

 

Perhaps waiting for a response from BoB might be the best option. They ARE busy folk and your inquiry is but one of many they receive on any given day. They DO answer inquiries. Sometimes it just takes a little while.

 

I'm still waiting. I'll post back here when I've received their answer.

 

(I 'played nice' :whistling:)

 

What does this mean?

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havilah    10
havilah

Hello kyle2 and thank you for wading in again.

 

To Havilah .... Your technical analysis is quite impressive, but you really are taking things way too seriously, its like reading a crime scene report or watching an episode of CSI Miami, ...

 

Why, thank you :amuse:

 

 

... but I assure you that anyone reading this thread, especially a seller, would not want you to buy any of their items or have any dealings with you.

 

I'm truly surprised and somewhat taken aback at this statement. Why not? I'm absolutely all about fairness.

 

Perhaps you should try selling some things to see what the other side of the coin is all about.

 

Well, no, see, I just want to know about the process behind disappearing feedback.

 

I truely wish you well and hope you lighten up a bit.

 

Thank you, and I will. Promise :smile:

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havilah    10
havilah

Just a quick observation at this point: not one of the kind participants in this discussion has had their own feedback removed.

 

That makes me wonder: how many people actually know that their feedback has been removed - or is it just me that's in the dark...

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JANDS    10
JANDS

I am suitably impressed and realise I have a long way to go. I tend to float over stuff and when a seller p**ses me off, I merely dont rate unless I feel I was blatantly robbed. Thus far I have been fortunate with only one bad experience which was 75% my own fault as a buyer. SA being the land of hijacking, we seem to be taking havilah's original questions a touch away from what they wanted and turned this into some eloquent "My point is impressive". Everyone has a valid point here and judging by the arguments presented, the only conclusion will be someone calling in the principal to douse you lot with water.

 

How about stepping away from it? Beers on me at my house...........and Gogol Bordello rocks.

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kyle2    10
kyle2
Hello kyle2 and thank you for wading in again.

quote_icon.png Originally Posted by kyle2viewpost-right.png

I truely wish you well and hope you lighten up a bit.

 

Thank you, and I will. Promise :smile:

 

Thank you for taking the High Road with your responses, some would not have, well done.:cheesy:

Edited by kyle2

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geewhizz    20
geewhizz
Thank you for taking the High Road with your responses, some would not have, well done.:cheesy:

 

Ratings are one thing I cannot take the high road on. I am passionate about fairness and consideration for sellers who make genuine mistakes.

I have just received a positive rating from a buyer who received the wrong cup and saucer.

I was on the phone within minutes to correct it.

I actually thanked him for communicating before giving me a negative rating.

He said he never does that until he communicates with a seller first and besides he said"Goodness it was packed so well and arrived safely"

This is a reasonable buyer with good manners. No one needs to hold a gun to our heads

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kyle2    10
kyle2
Ratings are one thing I cannot take the high road on. I am passionate about fairness and consideration for sellers who make genuine mistakes.

I have just received a positive rating from a buyer who received the wrong cup and saucer.

I was on the phone within minutes to correct it.

I actually thanked him for communicating before giving me a negative rating.

He said he never does that until he communicates with a seller first and besides he said"Goodness it was packed so well and arrived safely"

This is a reasonable buyer with good manners. No one needs to hold a gun to our heads

 

Wouldn't it be nice if all buyers were like this, I have been very blessed so far with good natured buyers, time will tell if this trend continues.

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Not1CentMore    10
Not1CentMore
how many people actually know that their feedback has been removed

 

My final (and personal) thoughts on all this 'hoopla'....

 

I sure as the dickens have more important things to do than play 'hawk' on each and every feedback left for a Buyer, today or six months ago, to see if it went 'poof'. The rating was left. If it goes 'poof', it is 'no water off a duck's back'. There are more important 'things' going on in the world (children abused, animals neglected, people starving, people being killed, etc.) to be concerned, much less 'stressed out', about a rating disappearing.

 

And with that, I best keep my fingers off the keyboard.

 

Ruthie

Edited by Not1CentMore

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geewhizz    20
geewhizz

A few years ago there was ample space to give a long stoooooooooooooooooory in a rating then it was reduced to less words.

I still,when I think about it,laugh at a rating I saw from a guy who bought a gold coin.It spoke volumes and all he said was" K*K coin":angel: in a negative rating.

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havilah    10
havilah

Just a quick update: The "Community Watch" ticket I had opened, asking why my feedback had been removed, has been closed. Not answered, just closed.

 

I'm asking again. This time the question is with the "General Support" team.

Edited by havilah

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