Just asking ...

[RISadler 10]

I see a lot of beautiful condition old coins coming onto the market these days. Now I would like to pose a question, and I am not accusing anyone of anything. How difficult is it and how prepared are dealers/collectors for spotting forgeries?

[kyle2 10]

Very good question...........:sneaky:

[RISadler 10]

Mmmm ... given the drought of replies, I can only assume that the Ostrich Syndrome is taken with regards this subject.

[kyle2 10]

Mmmm ... given the drought of replies, I can only assume that the Ostrich Syndrome is taken with regards this subject.

 

Its a question of them not wanting to stick their necks out with this one.........:toung:

[republikein 10]

Very good question! I had also no answer on a past question about the possibility of a "fake" MS graded 1897 ZAR half crown... or maybe only different dies, or... I have seen a DEFINATE DIFFERENCE! Vested interests...?

[Bellcoin 10]

Which is the real thing?

 

This one or the other? And yes I have a coin in the wrong one. And yes the coin cert. number matches the coin and grade at NGC.

 

 

Images are from NGC website

Edited July 12, 2012 by Bellcoin

[kyle2 10]

Which is the real thing?

 

This one or the other? And yes I have a coin in the wrong one. And yes the coin cert. number matches the coin and grade at NGC.

 

 

Images are from NGC website

 

Blammo!! is that the sound of the ballon popping or the pin dropping?

 

I have long suspected that there are graded fakes out there, I am very sure it is not at all impossible to duplicate the Logo and info on a particular graded coin and slap an appropriate fake inside and voila! instant valuable graded coin(duplicate of course) for sale and who is ever going to know, the buyer checks the coin on the Graders site, the serial number and coin matches up and no-one is the wiser.

I did once notice a ZAR coin on auction on eBay twice within days of one another, the serial numbers were the same, the sellers did not purchase the coin from each other before or after the respective auctions. Coincidence or one of the sellers doing something naughty by copying the others pic, I don't know, by very strange none the less.

NO I do not have any proof of this so no need to point it out to me, it was a year and half ago...........(for the mother grundies out there)

[RISadler 10]

Blammo!! is that the sound of the ballon popping or the pin dropping?

 

Nope, it's me saying: "I told you so!"

 

Cf. http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/coins-notes-numismatist/10623-new-grading-catagory.html#post80683 and http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/coins-notes-numismatist/12481-another-coin-stolen-1943-1d-ms66bn.html#post98754

[jwither 11]

Blammo!! is that the sound of the ballon popping or the pin dropping?

 

I have long suspected that there are graded fakes out there, I am very sure it is not at all impossible to duplicate the Logo and info on a particular graded coin and slap an appropriate fake inside and voila! instant valuable graded coin(duplicate of course) for sale and who is ever going to know, the buyer checks the coin on the Graders site, the serial number and coin matches up and no-one is the wiser.

I did once notice a ZAR coin on auction on eBay twice within days of one another, the serial numbers were the same, the sellers did not purchase the coin from each other before or after the respective auctions. Coincidence or one of the sellers doing something naughty by copying the others pic, I don't know, by very strange none the less.

NO I do not have any proof of this so no need to point it out to me, it was a year and half ago...........(for the mother grundies out there)

 

Yes, there are counterfeit NGC and PCGS holders out there with counterfeit coins in them. But I would not get too worked up about this been an epidemic with South Africa coins. I would expect that where it does happen, it would be with a coin like the Veldpond. It is expensive enough, in high enough demand and YES, COMMON ENOUGH to where it would be worthwhile to go to the trouble of doing so.

 

Most other SA coins are not worth the bother. Coins graded by NGC in the last few years (I cannot remember the exact start date) are all imaged by NGC and available for viewing with the certification lookup. To fool someone, this would require one of two things:

 

The seller could use a fake picture, presumably the one from the NGC website assuming it can be downloaded. I have not tried to do so but I would expect that it would be either difficult or not possible.

 

The seller could make an exact duplicate of the coin without even having access to the real one. I do not see that as either realistic for most (if any) counterfeiters or worth the bother. Certainly not for coins worth only hundreds of USD.

 

As always, the best defense against that is too only buy coins if you have this concern from a reputable source and to do your homework to know what the slabs are and check the NGC website.

 

I am not familiar with PCGS but I presume that what I describe more or less applies. PCGS has introduced the "Secure" holder for this purpose.

[Bellcoin 10]

1892 ZAR 5 shillings MS62 - single shaft.

 

The coin itself is xf/au at best.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Bellcoin