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captain emo

The great R1 auction scammers

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captain emo    11
captain emo

Is it just me that is getting annoyed with sellers blatantly ripping the ring out of it with postage charges on R1 auctions. Actually come to think about it pretty much all auctions but the R1 auctions really annoy me becuase its pretty obvious what the intention is.

 

Lets say I managed to pick up a second hand Ps2 game for R30 bucks. Cool thats a bargain until you factor in the postage which on average now sits at R45 bucks.that makes a total of R75. Suddenly does not look so great considering you can purchase second hand games at game stores or cash crusaders or similar for R60.

 

Ask any seller the question and they will tell you the mark up on pstage is to cover hings like packaging materials and what not. If Im buying a PS2 game in its case the case by itself is more than adequate to protect the disk inside. Over an above that some sellers dont even do anything extra, they just pop the game and cover in an econoparcel and post it

 

Last time i checked an aconoparcel costs R17.50 so to charge R45 is a 257% markup.

 

The problem is compounded when you buy a second game at the same time. Two games will easily fit in a parcel but you must pay an additional charge for the second game.

 

To put things in perspective, I bought a bundle of ps1 games (with boxes and manuals) recently where the seller had posted the incorrect postage details and we therfore negotiated that I would pay only the true postage costs. A 6 kg parcel cost about R50 to post (20 items). Now if 20 items can be posted for R50 how come a single item carries a cost of R45?

 

Its pretty obvious what is happening: Sellers are profiting off postage big time. The R1 auctions are the worst because the sellers are basically just using it as a tactic to cover the money they may lose by starting the bidding at R1.

 

Here's a concept, if you arent prepared to risk the fact that your product may only go for R1 then rather dont list on the R1 auctions nd if you have a specific price you want in mind then rather sell the item directly than place it on an auction.

 

The way I see it the current state of things means it is not possible for buyers to find any "bargains" in the auctions anymore when all costs are taken into account so they are forced to adopt one of two choices

 

1) Just dont make use of BoB anymore as other means of buying offer better value for money

 

2) Bid lower to reduce the total cost

 

There are no winners if the above two attitudes are adopted as sellers will see the R1 auction market dying and no longer list, BoB will lose out on revenue due to lower selling costs (postage not included as Bob doesnt make anything on postage)

 

I think its about time BoB chooses to regulate postage pricing in some way, perhaps stepping in as a middleman sort of thing whereby the purchased goods come to them first and are posted by them. Due to their larger buying power they may be able to negotiate a better price with the post office/couriers.

 

Anyway thats my rant. Let me know what you think

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mellowred    10
mellowred

Hi Captain Emo, and welcome to the forum. You have no idea how many times the postage scammers have been discussed on the forum. The only advice is to read and read again ... if you don't like the postage just move on. If the postage is a rip-off - report the seller and move on.

 

Your comment

sellers will see the R1 auction market dying and no longer list
is so true and going by the comments on the forum, it is already happening.

 

As postage is a variable thing ... fragile, large, heavy, odd shapes etc. it is very difficult for BoB to police the scammers. There is no "average" postage cost.

 

But they do follow up on reports.

 

I suggested in another thread that the postage costs be displayed next to the bid price - that way the potential buyer does not have to go looking for the postage.

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InfiIT    10
InfiIT

A Fair postage on econo would be R30 - R35 for under 1Kg if i am not mistaken :)

 

+ Postage itself is R20.40

+ Envelope is say R10 (could be wrong here)

+ R5 for things like travel to the post office

 

Maybe the more experienced guys can give us a more accurate figure :)

 

From what the SAPO told me the last time <1kg is R20.40 and >1kg to i think 2Kg is R35

 

Personally, i dont post anything over 1kg so R35 is good for me, R45 is a bit much for postage for a CD

 

I agree with the whole pastage displayed next to the price bit, it's rather annoying going into a R1 auction only to know that the postage is like R350 because its imported.

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donovink    10
donovink

This seems to be a common problem on most online auction sites. One of the big issues is sellers who up there postage rates to sell more items at a reduced price but also to pay less in BoB fees. I brought up an issue before where a seller was charging R45.00 for a normal buy now item but on crazy auctions, was charging R75.00 for postage for the same item.

 

What did ebay do when it got out of hand: They charged commission/fees on postage. This way, they encouraged sellers to offer free shipping (A big seller to buyers), and sellers couldn't avoid fees.

 

Yes, you still get sellers charging astronomical shipping but it cuts out those sellers trying to avoid the fees.

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ATA STAMP CENTRE    10
ATA STAMP CENTRE
This seems to be a common problem on most online auction sites. One of the big issues is sellers who up there postage rates to sell more items at a reduced price but also to pay less in BoB fees. I brought up an issue before where a seller was charging R45.00 for a normal buy now item but on crazy auctions, was charging R75.00 for postage for the same item.

 

What did ebay do when it got out of hand: They charged commission/fees on postage. This way, they encouraged sellers to offer free shipping (A big seller to buyers), and sellers couldn't avoid fees.

 

Yes, you still get sellers charging astronomical shipping but it cuts out those sellers trying to avoid the fees.

 

AT first i thought that would be a great idea but then i thought ok!!these abusers will then just up their postage fees again to cover the extra commission and you would then have higher postage rates again and the buyers would lose again!!!:whistling::sad2:

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mellowred    10
mellowred

I wonder what the real motive is? Is it to con BoB out of fees or to make the buyer think he/she is getting a bargain and hoping they don't include the total postage in their "I've got a bargain" mental state?

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa
I wonder what the real motive is? Is it to con BoB out of fees or to make the buyer think he/she is getting a bargain and hoping they don't include the total postage in their "I've got a bargain" mental state?

 

A little bit of both I think! BUT.... at the end of the day if the buyer isnt happy with the price dont buy!

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qball    11
qball

If you suspect excessive postage costs please report it to communitywatch@bidorbuy.co.za for investigation. We do act on these reports. Unfortunately we cannot regulate postage - due to many of the factors already mentioned above. The buyer also has a responsibility to report any abusive activity and to also read the shipping options before placing bids, if they are not happy with the charges do not bid. Unfortunately sellers are located all over the country, so the actual cost of shipping a parcel may be more than a mere R18, it can include packaging costs, fuel (particularly if they live far from a post office) etc. Not only that many buyers are not located near a convenient second hand shop or store or retail outlet, so often you are paying for the convenience of having it delivered. Often the expense of driving to the store is far more expensive.

 

We also have as part of our listing policy the following condition:

 

1.10. Including unreasonably high shipping costs in item listings (including insurances). bidorbuy, in its sole discretion, reserves the right to charge a 5% penalty fee, calculated on the total shipping amount, for excessive shipping charges. bidorbuy may also either disable your account or remove your ability to sell products on its website for failure to comply with these terms.

 

We usually have a discussion with the seller first to determine the actual costs involved and if possible come to a consensus regarding the fees. We do not believe sellers should use this to avoid paying fees or to cover any losses they may make. Combining fees are permitted within reason, if these are not within reason we can request the seller to reduce them, this is dependent on several factors, including what item they are selling, size, fragility, weight, extra packaging etc.

 

As I said earlier, you are welcome to report it to us for investigation, but unfortunately it is difficult to monitor or regulate shipping on all the various shipping methods, options, fees, sellers and items.

Edited by qball

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donovink    10
donovink
AT first i thought that would be a great idea but then i thought ok!!these abusers will then just up their postage fees again to cover the extra commission and you would then have higher postage rates again and the buyers would lose again!!!:whistling::sad2:

 

I agree, you will have the few who will just adjust for it. But what it does though is allow the "honest" sellers to offer free postage and in turn increase their sales because buyers are happier to go for "the price you see is the price you pay" and "no hidden costs" than worry about searching through item after item to find reasonable postage costs. Eventually the others will be forced to follow suit if they want to make sales.

 

This does become a bit tricky though when it comes to the crazy Wednesday/Friday/weekend auctions though.

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donovink    10
donovink

What does a seller like this do for Bidorbuy in terms of commission and reputation.

 

My apologies to the named seller but he is just one of the many sellers profiting in a big way by catching unsuspecting buyers with excessive postage charges. Yes, the buyers haven't complained about the postage costs but they probably think that since they only paid R1.00 for the item, they can live with the postage charges.

 

Hundreds of items sold for R1.00 and in my mind excessive shipping charges. Yes, his products are coming from overseas but just do a search for one or two of his products and see what it costs to get the items here. An item sold for R1.00, cost about R50.00 from overseas. Buyer pay R0.00 for shipping ie: shipping is free yet he charges R125.00 for the first item and R119.00 for each additional. So, Buyer loses R49.00 on the sale of the item but makes R125.00 on postage.

 

BoB earns 5c on the sale. Who's the big loser here? never mind the honest sellers of similar items who can't make a sale

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captain emo    11
captain emo

Heres a possible solution though it may take some work to implement

 

When a seller lists their good on BoB they provide the weight of goods. This obviously doesnt have to show on the listing itself but if BoB has a database of what the current postage costs per kg are and the weight of the goods themselves they will be in a far better position to judge whether the shipping charges are excessive.

 

I completely agree about imported goods really ripping the ring out of it. I know becuase as an avid gamer i am trying to get together all the final fantasy games. Local sellers sell the game final fantasy 7 for upwards of R500 (excluding postage). Their excuse is that the game is "ultra rare" and has to be ordered from overseas.

 

A quick google search reveals that the game is not that rare and that it is actually cheaper to buy it overseas and have it posted to you than to buy from the local sellers. And not just marginally cheaper, the local guys are sometimes using more than 100% markup. By exaggerating the rarity of the games the sellers are artificially creating a supply/demand situation.

 

I place some of the blame with buyers though for not doing their homework but at the end of the day i think buyers are far more comfortable buying from a local website than buying from an overseas website where they are not certain the goods will arrive.

 

Anyhow overpriced goods is a debate for another day. Anybody else got any suggestions on how BoB can more effectively police the postage issue?

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Seeds for Africa    10
Seeds for Africa

Can I make a suggestion.

 

1) That bob open a thread titled "Report suspected overcharging here".

2) I believe that will simplify things for bob, as someone can look at this once a day and take any action they deem necessary.

3) Maybe at the start of the thread bob can state the policy, so anyone wanting to post can read first what bobs policy is regarding shipping.

 

There is a thread at least once a week about overcharging on shipping. It gets a bit tiresome. I understand where buyers are coming from, but the easiest way to stop overcharging is simply boycott these sellers. No business and they will be forced to rectify shipping to reasonable levels.

 

There are so many different factors involved in how sellers ship, that regulation isnt realistically an option. Nor is it an option to base it simply on weight. Some sellers will pack in an old cardboard box, whilst others take the trouble to present the goods well packed.

 

Just my two cents!

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mrmouse    12
mrmouse

BoB will never be able to handle the freight issue economically , it will be a logistical nightmare for them , I do agree on other points though ( most items are no longer a bargain once the (rippoff) freight has been added ) there are definately cheaper ways of buying goods , although the selection can be limited , it is cheaper to buy the same ( similar ) goods from other international sites where freight is way lower ( delivery time is extended but attitude is far better ) unfortunately freight will allways be an issue , petrol , packing , time , tape , wear and tear , I have a runner that does my mail for me , he charges R10 per box surcharge or R10 per priority mail irrespective of quantity , I pay it with a smile .

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kebs    10
kebs

I charge R45 for auction postage, & here's why... Usually, I may sell 2 or 3 items a week on Bob.. Easy to handle.. But the auctions are anywhere between 10 & 20 parcels.. I have 3 other jobs in between Bob, so I pay some-one per parcel to assist me with postage. This is clearly stated in my listing description. I do combine as well, there is an extra fee because as it's usually games, it's a bigger envelope to use. I agree that some sellers abuse the whole postage rates, & this issue will probably never be resolved, but buyers are not forced to bid / buy an item, & can always report if they feel the charges are excessive..

Edited by kebs
spelling

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kebs    10
kebs

Re : Final fantasy games - Don't forget the custom fees, which can be anywhere between R60 & R120.. :weeabooface:

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captain emo    11
captain emo

Kebs I concede that imported goods attract customs but I still call bullcrap on the perception that customs ramp up the price so much.

 

Thanks to my job I have dealt with a number of clients who import goods and the customs doesnt make up that large a percentage of the overall landed value. Customs charges have become a stick that SA retailers use to beat the general public with and justify exhorbitant prices. For example a newspaper article last year revealed that a Porche that retails for around R1 million in England retails for around R2 million. Customs charges = R1 Million??? Something smells like horsesh## to me.

 

And my final arguement is that new PS3 games can retail for R500. Now those games would also have attracted customs. Im pretty damn sure the cost of a new PS3 game before customs is more than a second hand PS2 or PS1 game and since customs is calculated on the value/cost of the imported item, the customs on the new game would be higher. So the question is how can the new PS3 game and the PS1 game carry the same retail cost. Either the PS3 game isnt generating that much profit or the PS1 game is bending someone over the barrel. Somehow I doubt it is the former.

 

As for recovering your "employee" (postage helper) costs through postage, that is absurd. Employee costs are paid from profits from the product you are selling as happens in any normal business. You are not selling a courier/postage services so to my mind you should only be recovering the actual costs of postage and postage materials.

Edited by qball
Removed personal comments

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wayjen    10
wayjen

We all know by now that people are making money on postage and that is something Buyers need to be aware of and ask questions about. We all know by now that BoB are unable to track all of us and that's why it needs to be brought to their attention for looking into. We all know by now that some Buyers have no clue what they are talking about when it comes to postage costs and the SAPO. We all know by now that some international Buyers have no clue how prices change in South Africa with regards postage costs and that what we tell them today might be changed tomorrow. We all know by now that each and every Seller on BoB packages their items differently. We all know by now that because YOU bought something from Joe Soap yesterday and it was packed in a plastic bag that the same or similar item from Joe Blogs must be packed like that too.

 

It amuses me when people do not read listings and have the nerve to complain afterwards that this or that is too high. People say that they can buy the same item from a shop down the road for less money yet still come on BoB expecting the item to be posted free of charge so they can get it cheaper.

 

With regards R1 auctions, I still think that's a crock unless you willing to part with the item for R1.

 

 

 

Try looking for a bargain at a fleamarket these days and hear how many sellers mention that online the item is worth so and so, you will soon see who trades online and that going to a fleamarket for bargains these days is a waste of time. Who remembers those early days of factory shops where you can pick up a bargain, well now they business in their own right and the prices are no better then a chain store.

 

Lastly, if you are after something on BoB and it looks like a sweet deal then do the math to see if it's worth it before bidding and having issues later.

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kebs    10
kebs
Kebs I concede that imported goods attract customs but I still call bullcrap on the perception that customs ramp up the price so much.

 

Thanks to my job I have dealt with a number of clients who import goods and the customs doesnt make up that large a percentage of the overall landed value. Customs charges have become a stick that SA retailers use to beat the general public with and justify exhorbitant prices. For example a newspaper article last year revealed that a Porche that retails for around R1 million in England retails for around R2 million. Customs charges = R1 Million??? Something smells like horsesh## to me.

 

And my final arguement is that new PS3 games can retail for R500. Now those games would also have attracted customs. Im pretty damn sure the cost of a new PS3 game before customs is more than a second hand PS2 or PS1 game and since customs is calculated on the value/cost of the imported item, the customs on the new game would be higher. So the question is how can the new PS3 game and the PS1 game carry the same retail cost. Either the PS3 game isnt generating that much profit or the PS1 game is bending someone over the barrel. Somehow I doubt it is the former.

 

As for recovering your "employee" (postage helper) costs through postage, that is absurd. Employee costs are paid from profits from the product you are selling as happens in any normal business. You are not selling a courier/postage services so to my mind you should only be recovering the actual costs of postage and postage materials. Why dont you just build your rent or bond into your postage price too seeing as you operate from your home (if I understand your listings descriptions correctly)?

 

I think I will be boycotting BoB until the situation improves as there are too many damn assrapist sellers around and I'm out of vaseline.

 

I have had customs charges of over R200 before on an item valued at R100, & also R490 on an item valued at R290 - the latter I refused & had it sent back, but as the first parcel was for a customer, I paid these fees. No-one an tell me exactly how fees are calculated as it seems to depend who's on duty in customs that day.. The other day I received a box of games, customs R180 - this is the average cost I pay.. The same size box this week was R20.. So it's impossible for me to determine what the costs will be. As for paying some-one, yes, I do.. Otherwise my buyers will wait maybe a week for me to be able to do all the orders. 3 other jobs, & waiting for a knee replacement hampers a person somewhat! Check my feedback, everyone is happy so far (touch wood). I have seen some big sellers who charge R65 for postage, R20 for each extra item. I simply don't buy from them.

I deal with one supplier for the final fantasy games, maybe they are cheaper elsewhere, but this is a person I've dealt with for years & trust 100%. After being ripped off for over R10000 on another international bidding site, I won't go there anymore. On average, they cost me about R400 to buy, then take into account the possible custom fees, bidorbuy selling fees, & my profit is actually very little.. & Yes, I would like to make some profit - that's the point after-all! If customs step in, I may make nothing. The final fantasy range has become increasingly more expensive, obviously due to it's popularity. Ridiculous that it costs more than a new PS3 game? Of course! But check out my auctions - some new PS3 games sell for less than R100, where as dragonball z on PS2, used, sells for over R150, sometimes without the manual even included. It's unfortunately not me who determines the price of games, but buyers / gamers worldwide who increase the popularity of a game..

I see no need to get nasty & say I should build my rent / bond into my postage price. I have explained everything completely, & the bottom line is that you (& no-one else) is forced to buy on the site, or from me. If you can find something cheaper somewhere else, then go for it.

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voldermort    10
voldermort

Again it reverts back to "buyer beware" meaning take some responsibility for the items you are planning to purchase, and that includes taking note of postage costs.

I have here a lady who buys (or at least tries to) anything Elvis related, that means every week doing a thorough search of the Movies on Crazy Wednesday & just about every week there is a certain box set that comes up (not Elvis) - and every week without fail this box set will go between R120 - R150, that is without the R40 postage that is charged. And every week without fail on this same ad, under similar items will be the exact same box set selling brand new & either free postage or minimal postage @ R90 for the box set.

I am failing to understand why some buyers do not actually read postage/be aware of what they are buying & all costs involved BEFORE bidding or buying & then having a hissy fit after.

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wayjen    10
wayjen

We get parcels from America a few times a year and have them delivered to our door with no fuss. I get a call one day saying I must pay R200 odd for a parcel which I had to rob from Peter to pay Paul, so as kebs says it is who is on duty at the day.

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kebs    10
kebs
We get parcels from America a few times a year and have them delivered to our door with no fuss. I get a call one day saying I must pay R200 odd for a parcel which I had to rob from Peter to pay Paul, so as kebs says it is who is on duty at the day.

I want the guy on duty when your parcels arrive!! :cheesy:

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TJOY    10
TJOY

Am also decidedly annoyed with postage. Just don't get how some sellers can keep postage to a minimum and others just go overboard. I guess the best way is to bid on the lowest postage instead of the item (Ha Ha)

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MsPlod    10
MsPlod
Am also decidedly annoyed with postage. Just don't get how some sellers can keep postage to a minimum and others just go overboard. I guess the best way is to bid on the lowest postage instead of the item (Ha Ha)

You are soooooo right! Certain traders definitely use the so-called "shipping charges" to bump up their revenue and avoid paying higher success fees.

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lilythepink    10
lilythepink

I believe it is high time that SA Customs put out a booklet, similar to that of the PO, which anyone can apply for free of charge and be made aware of what customs duties are on particular items. I still believe that the luck of the draw is applicable to customs duties - it all depends on which official is considering your item and whether he/she is in a good or bad mood that day!!

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MsPlod    10
MsPlod

This trader has been mentioned before in other threads, but is worth noting again.

 

S/he has the "using shipping charges to avoid paying success fees" trick - down to a fine art...

 

Items recently sold by syho on bidorbuy.co.za

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