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alloway65

I see their are a number of 1994 Inauguration Coin Packs on sale on BoB.

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alloway65

I see their are a number of 1994 Inauguration Coin Packs on sale on BoB....has anyone any idea where they originate from??? :whistling:

I asked one seller some questions last week but got no response!:mad:

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kyle2

I have also noticed these, the mint does not seem to know anything about them, not sure where they originated from.......:confused:

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alloway65

My feeling is that they have recently been privately made and I am sure they are not uncirculated Inauguration coins. I also am sure that was why my question was not answered.:sad2:

Anyone these days can print just about anything using their laptop and a colour printer.:angel:

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alloway65

I bought a few of these Inauguration Packs out of interest a few weeks ago, then bought some more the other day but on receipt noticed there were differences...even these Packs are being forged.

 

On contacting the Seller she was shocked and immediately refunded me including full shipping costs.

452156_121125094958_007.JPG

452156_121125094953_009.JPG

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JohnBenn

Which one is the forgery?Top?Very crude.

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alloway65
Which one is the forgery?Top?Very crude.

 

The top one is the "forgery"....as you say very crude.....quite a few of these "forgeries" have been sold on BoB!

 

Can not find out who made the "Originals"!!!

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ATA STAMP CENTRE
The top one is the "forgery"....as you say very crude.....quite a few of these "forgeries" have been sold on BoB!

 

Can not find out who made the "Originals"!!!

IN my opinion there were never any originals as all were privately made and then just copied and almost all i have seen have circulated coins in poor condition.

I am surprised at the "shock" as i am sure these sellers know what they are selling and just another way of ripping off unsuspecting buyers.

neil

If an experienced hand like yourself can fall for this what about the uninformed buyer??

neil

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alloway65
IN my opinion there were never any originals as all were privately made and then just copied and almost all i have seen have circulated coins in poor condition.

I am surprised at the "shock" as i am sure these sellers know what they are selling and just another way of ripping off unsuspecting buyers.

neil

If an experienced hand like yourself can fall for this what about the uninformed buyer??

neil

 

I agree that is why I put Originals in quotes.

 

I purchased the items without really studying the picture on the selling page....my stupidity.....I was looking after one of our Grandchildren when I bid so I was being pleasantly distracted.

 

I believe my seller when she says that she was not familiar with the items in question....I had a suspicion whom the original seller was and after a bit of research I was proved correct!

 

The R5 coins appear to have been "sand blasted"!

Edited by alloway65
Comment added.

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oaks and acorns
The top one is the "forgery"....as you say very crude.....quite a few of these "forgeries" have been sold on BoB!

 

Can not find out who made the "Originals"!!!

 

 

Might be a better idea to sell the 'forgery' though...

 

... found what seems to be the original artwork of the waving flag used in the 'original' collectors pack (Wave Your Flag Drawing Contest, Pictures Page 1 - Pxleyes.com). Hard to tell looking at your scan, but check certain points in the two pics and judge for yourself.

 

Seems likely that the creator of the 'original' collectors pack found and used the flag clipart on the web, and likely the other clipart too - and the original artist/copyright holder of one piece of clipart used in this pack isn't getting his/her due.

 

Edit:

Also, without either of the packs in front of me this is just a guesstimate, but it looks like the clipart on the 'forged' pack has been sketched (and the flag coloured) by hand and then scanned and printed, and is that a signature and a date beneath and to the right of the building?

 

2nd Edit:

To remove my incomplete understanding of copyright policy, and herewith the real deal as referred to by the website in question...

What is Copyright Protection?

 

The greek girlie's flag artwork, if indeed it is hers that was used in the 'original' pack, would be protected by both pxleyes.com's privacy policy (found on their Register page) and the Berne Convention

 

~ trusting that Athena would look upon her kindly, and that the seller recovers from the shock experienced ~

Edited by oaks and acorns

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alloway65
Might be a better idea to sell the 'forgery' though...

 

... found what seems to be the original artwork of the waving flag used in the 'original' collectors pack (Wave Your Flag Drawing Contest, Pictures Page 1 - Pxleyes.com). Hard to tell looking at your scan, but check certain points in the two pics and judge for yourself.

 

Seems likely that the creator of the 'original' collectors pack found and used the flag clipart on the web, and likely the other clipart too - and the original artist/copyright holder of one piece of clipart used in this pack isn't getting his/her due.

 

Edit:

Also, without either of the packs in front of me this is just a guesstimate, but it looks like the clipart on the 'forged' pack has been sketched (and the flag coloured) by hand and then scanned and printed, and is that a signature and a date beneath and to the right of the building?

 

2nd Edit:

To remove my incomplete understanding of copyright policy, and herewith the real deal as referred to by the website in question...

What is Copyright Protection?

 

The greek girlie's flag artwork, if indeed it is hers that was used in the 'original' pack, would be protected by both pxleyes.com's privacy policy (found on their Register page) and the Berne Convention

 

~ trusting that Athena would look upon her kindly, and that the seller recovers from the shock experienced ~

 

Very informative post....thank you.

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alloway65

The other problem with this type of item is that one does not know how many units were made or that can still be made.....the limit being how many circulated R5 Inauguration Coins that can be found.

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Pierre_Henri
The other problem with this type of item is that one does not know how many units were made or that can still be made.....the limit being how many circulated R5 Inauguration Coins that can be found.

 

I see aboslutely NOTHING wrong with these sets -

 

They were probably put together by a school boy or granny with time on their hands and they are fooling NOBODY - what you see and read is what you get.

 

I think they are typical airport / tourist momentoes to take home to Germany or Canada and are in no way prentending to be investments.

 

Most people would rather own one of those than a 1967 stamp set of HF Verwoerd, but each to their own.

 

What is the big issue here?

 

Pierre

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alloway65

No big issue at all Pierre........apart from what was discussed in this thread.

 

This is a Forum and we are allowed to discuss most topics.........correct me if I am wrong?

 

I will get one on my Grandson's or their Granny (my Wife) to knock up a few more of these packs if I need any....thanks for the valuable advice.

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Pierre_Henri

Shocking Rip Off

 

I am surprised at the "shock" as i am sure these sellers know what they are selling and just another way of ripping off unsuspecting buyers.

 

I am asking why do anyone think that someone is ripping off someone else?

 

People who buy these types of items are tourists and holidaymakers or someone who is buying it for a grandchild. The moment it is bought it is already forgotten like many trinkets and miniatures we all have bought of Big Ben in London or the Eifel Tower in Paris. Was that a rip of when we bought it? No, it was an impulsive what-was-I-thinking-then? purchase.

 

So why would these Mandela packs be any different:- why is it a "shock" to see them sold on BidorBuy? It was clearly stated here that it is a rip off and I do not think so.

 

Pierre

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alloway65

The point was there was the so called "original" Inauguration Pack with gold foil printing and the "copy" of the Inauguration Pack in basic black and white......refer the two pictures I posted earlier on this thread.:wink:

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Pierre_Henri
The point was there was the so called "original" Inauguration Pack with gold foil printing and the "copy" of the Inauguration Pack in basic black and white......refer the two pictures I posted earlier on this thread.

 

Yes, that was your point.

 

But I was NOT referring to that. I was referring to the point that was made under this thread (posting) that selling these sets are a rip off and shocking.

 

I cannot understand why you are getting annoyed with me when I reply to OTHER comments that were made by other posters?

 

I thought we can all view our comments here as it is suppose to be an open forum?

 

Pierre

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alloway65

 

Yes, that was your point.

 

But I was NOT referring to that. I was referring to the point that was made under this thread (posting) that selling these sets are a rip off and shocking.

 

I cannot understand why you are getting annoyed with me when I reply to OTHER comments that were made by other posters?

 

I thought we can all view our comments here as it is suppose to be an open forum?

 

Pierre

 

My apologies Pierre.....a misunderstanding on my part...so sorry......I was having problems with the internet, my laptop, the pool and the Koi pond......but lets put my bad mood down to the excessive hot weather we are having here.:blush:

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Pierre_Henri

David

 

Excessive hot weather young man?

 

I thought Johannesburg was a cool place - but seems like there are no Dew in the Honey there!

 

Here in Cape Town it is hot-hot-hot

 

LOL - keep the Koi and just send the Pond down south!

 

Pierre

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oaks and acorns
Very informative post....thank you.

 

Well, I certainly hope you meant that. One can never be too sure in cyberspace, these days.

 

After further searching I may have (I think, maybe, possibly) found the source (as in someone who has sold A LOT) of the 'original' packs. First four packs seem to have been sold on 7 September 2012 and I haven't been able (yet) to find any sold before then.

Inauguration R5 - ** Collectors Limited Edition ** 1994 Presidential Inauguration R5 Coin Pack - Get Yours Now !!! was sold for R121.00 on 7 Sep at 14:16 by Pieter99 in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:75143441)

 

When did you buy your 'original' pack alloway, before or after this date?

 

 

And then, without knocking my bandwidth too badly, I was able to find sales of the 'forged' packs sold on 14 August 2012

Inauguration R5 - !!!SPECIAL!!! Valuable Presidential Inauguration 1994 unc R5 Coin Pack!!! The beginning of new SA!!! was sold for R180.00 on 14 Aug at 23:28 by Hannelore R in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:73047802)

 

So are those hand drawn sketches and a signature on the 'forged' pack, alloway? You never answered.

 

 

 

And now back to my thoughts at the time of posting on this thread... Could the 'forged' pack actually be the original, hijacked by a clever marketer and spruced up into the 'original' pack with clearer, more precise clipart and gold lettering ? And if the artwork on the 'original' pack is a copyright infringement, who's gonna do the necessary ?

 

~cringes and decides to hide until next week~

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alloway65
Well, I certainly hope you meant that. One can never be too sure in cyberspace, these days.

 

After further searching I may have (I think, maybe, possibly) found the source (as in someone who has sold A LOT) of the 'original' packs. First four packs seem to have been sold on 7 September 2012 and I haven't been able (yet) to find any sold before then.

Inauguration R5 - ** Collectors Limited Edition ** 1994 Presidential Inauguration R5 Coin Pack - Get Yours Now !!! was sold for R121.00 on 7 Sep at 14:16 by Pieter99 in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:75143441)

 

When did you buy your 'original' pack alloway, before or after this date?

 

 

And then, without knocking my bandwidth too badly, I was able to find sales of the 'forged' packs sold on 14 August 2012

Inauguration R5 - !!!SPECIAL!!! Valuable Presidential Inauguration 1994 unc R5 Coin Pack!!! The beginning of new SA!!! was sold for R180.00 on 14 Aug at 23:28 by Hannelore R in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:73047802)

 

So are those hand drawn sketches and a signature on the 'forged' pack, alloway? You never answered.

 

 

 

And now back to my thoughts at the time of posting on this thread... Could the 'forged' pack actually be the original, hijacked by a clever marketer and spruced up into the 'original' pack with clearer, more precise clipart and gold lettering ? And if the artwork on the 'original' pack is a copyright infringement, who's gonna do the necessary ?

 

~cringes and decides to hide until next week~

 

Re your first link, I have bought 10 packs from this seller, I asked him where/who he got them from and he said from an "agent" or something similar and that he did not know where they originated.

 

I bought my first packs about 6 weeks ago...I will check and revert.

 

Re the second link, I was going to send this seller a link to this thread...but never got around to it.

 

As far as I was concerned this hand drawn version was the "forgery".....but you might be right that the opposite occured to what I thought/assumed was the case. But from the amount of these "original" packs known to have been sold was all the effort worth it???

 

The three "forged" packs that I bought and returned and the seller referenced in your second link both bought from the same BoB seller.

 

Re any possible copyright infringement that has taken place, this is up to the original pack maker to take any action they deem necessary.

 

I bought 4 Packs on September 30, 2012 & 6 Packs on October 14, 2012!

Edited by alloway65
Dates added.

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alloway65
David

 

Excessive hot weather young man?

 

I thought Johannesburg was a cool place - but seems like there are no Dew in the Honey there!

 

Here in Cape Town it is hot-hot-hot

 

LOL - keep the Koi and just send the Pond down south!

 

Pierre

 

Pierre,

We have had a lot of thunder storms in the late afternoons/evenings hence higher than usual humidity....which is a killer at least for me.

 

When I retired we did not move to KZN because of the humidity or to The Cape because of the wet winters!!!!

Take care

David

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