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mwgielink

Motlanthe

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mwgielink

Hello all

 

I'm back again (was disconnected for about 2 months or so). Can anyone tell me anything about this new President Motlanthe stamp. Is it being retracted never to be released or will it be released at a later time. Does anyone know. I have been given an offer of R1500 for a sheet and I really don't want to burn my fingers because this is quite a lot of money for me.

 

Thanks

Mark (mwgielink)

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gabriel 1

Hi

 

I heard that it was going to be retracted. My personal opinion is that if that was the case it would have been done already. Who knows?

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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dstorm

Hello all

 

I am no expert on new issues, but just my opinion.

 

I have seen this issue being compared to the Bible Stamp, right here on BidorBuy. A very dangerous comparison.

 

The stamp (already printed and already or rather still with the post offices) could be released at any day. At R20-50 per sheetlet.

 

Let us not even talk about possible bribery / corruption should the stamp in fact be withdrawn.

 

Too many people have too many connections with too many people…

 

Not being a gambling man, I will place a bet that many people are going to lose money. I know that some traders have already made handsome returns

 

The short term future is rosy. The long term view might not be that brilliant.

 

The Bible stamp is more than 20 years old. I do not see the Presidential Issue maintaining its value over the next 5 years.

 

Thanks to BidorBuy Forum for allowing me to give a very one-sided opinion.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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Rusty500

I have spoken my local Post Office Manager who seems to be even more in the dark than us. He has many sheets of the stamps in stock and is of the opinion that they will soon be given the go ahead to start selling them. He is, however, not prepared to give up twenty-five years of service by selling them before the actual release. He is completely amazed that some of these are already being sold on BoB.

 

Regards

Chris

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alloway65

Hi all,

The new President does not appear to be liked in general by the ANC, therefore I dont think the stamps will be issued as this would give him extra publicity.....and could detract from Zuma. Very few people know about the new stamps except Bobbers. Also if they were going to be issued they would have been issued on the planned issue date.

 

With government departments who knows what will happen, the SAM & the PB are both a shambles.

 

I think some post office staff will be bribed to sell some of the stamps.

 

Seemingly the bar code has been blocked at the PO Head Office for these stamps.

 

However that being said I did buy a sheet just in case!

 

For the buyers who bought full sheets at R1000.00+ prices just ask the seller for a 6 month money back guarantee....I am sure you wont get it!!!!

 

I must say the stamp business at the moment is getting to feel like the 70s & 80s....good fun and lots of money to be made and lost!!!

 

Have a great day.

 

D. :D

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kennyn

Hi Jacques

Thanks for your one sided opinion.

Heres mine

Firstly should bid or buy allow these stamps to be sold?

Secondly,everyone has been harping on about an ethics committee

Are these the same people who somehow got hold of these stamps?.Are these the same people buying these stamps?

Has anyone given a thought to what happens to the clerks who were coerced into selling the sheets?

As for all this garbage " cancelled on opening of Parliament and first day and one day before first day" as far as I am concerned this is CTO and worth about as much as the tons of rubbish produced by the communist block countries and Ajman etc,ie never saw a post box in its life.

Whoever takes over the colour catalogue should blacklist the stamp( unless it is released officially of course) and in that case blacklist any material dated before this new date.

Hope this creates some lively debate

Regards

Kenny

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gabriel 1

Hi Kenny

 

Are you trying to create a market for "blacklisted" stamps?, these could be worth more than the original stamp if it is issued. I have seen forgeries sell for more than the originals. With the amount of stamps that are already on the market I do not see them even coming close to the Bible stamp. I further think that alot of hype is being created to try and stimulate sales of this issue and this will be short lived.

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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dstorm

Hello all

 

Some of these stamps were “legitimately†sold over the counter. Up to last week, my post office was unaware that the stamps were not to be sold. As Alloway put it, the barcode is blocked and that was the only reason why the post office clerk did not sell the stamps to me. So I am sure that not all the stamps were obtained in an immoral or illegal manner.

 

Therefor I believe that BidorBuy should allow the listing of these stamps. Contrived FDC's are different, especially in last week's case where was obvious that the date stamp was tampered with (turned back) to such an extent the the year was 2008 and not 2009! We should have pride in our trade. If you want to create a forgery, please create a good one – and give us all a challenge identifying it. Unless of course, the object of the exercise is to provide pure amusement to BidorBuy stamp collectors.

 

I agree with Kenny that (should the stamp not be issued) it should be blacklisted. As an unissued stamp it is not valid as postage. Therefor it is not a postage stamp.

 

Did any SAPDA members receive any directives from SAPDA / PFSA / SAPO regarding this issue?

 

Thanks and regards

 

Jacques

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alloway65

Hi Jacques,

But the stamps were issued over the PO counters, then someone in the PO had a "change of mind", so the stamps sold (up to that time) should therefore be ligitimate! But no way to differenciate.

 

Re the Bible stamps, these I think were stopped by the PO before the issueing date, but some PO's never received the instructions and sold some.

 

Let the debate continue.

 

Who amongst us, if they had bought 50 sheets at face value from the PO,would have sold them at face value to Bobers!!!!

 

David

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dstorm

Hello David

 

Who amongst us, if they had bought 50 sheets at face value from the PO,would have sold them at face value to Bobers!!!!

 

I am not trying to adopt a Holier Than Though attitude.

 

If I bought any at face, I would have held them back till the dust settled.

 

Can you imagine the repercussions of selling a sheet at R1 800-00 to a loyal client of 15 years? Only for him / her to find out later that his investment crumbled to R20-50! Will she / he ever take your advice again?

 

I see it as a nobody wins situation in the short term. Except for a couple of traders who are out to make a quick buck with no regard for the future of stamp collecting / dealing. In 5 years time they might be part time estate agents again.

 

Point taken on your first paragraph.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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kennyn

Hi All

Good stuff ,if a little tame

I agree with the following,namely that due to the HUGE number of released sheets this cannot become another bible stamp.

Furthermore as Jacques states this cannot be considered as a valid stamp for postage,therefore all contrived covers should be taken as exactly that.

Come on David of Alloway(my fellow revered Scot from the county of Burns),change of heart is a rather optimistic comment.You cannot in your heart of heart believe that every post office clerk in the country willingly and without just a tad of personal gain sold the stamps?

If so my belief in the good of mankind has been restored and with such honesty and integrity,the ANC could do worse than to appoint Carl Niehaus

as the next Postmaster General.

Kind Regards

Kenny

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dstorm

Hello Kenny

 

Perhaps we have it all wrong.

 

I honestly believed that Seahorses were perhaps not that scarce. There are 10 on for this week’s Wednesday Crazy Auction.

 

In contrast, the President Motlanthe issue must be rare. I see that there are only 50 odd stamps on for the same evening.

 

If we club in our resources now, we might be able to corner the market within a week or two.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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kennyn

Hi Jacques

You are right!Judging by the number of sheets available,I think there are more on the market than the Post Office has left.If they ever release them,they will have to do a second printing as most Post Offices would appear to be sold out already.

Regards

Kenny

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seahorsefanatic

Hi Guys :D

 

President Motlanthe - the dust will need to settle on this one and I agree that some restaint is needed until we all know what the situation is. I have 5 sheets in my possession which didnt take too much persuasion on my part to get the post master to release to me at face. Worst case senario will be that I can use these instead of the boring rhino's that I've used for the last 14 years.

 

I think it is irresponsible to rush these items onto BoB and later when the market crashes your alternative will either be to return to work as a part time estate agent or sell mirrors at the side of the road. The only outcome to those greedy few will be to alienate themselves from fellow collectors as mercenaries :evil:

 

:?: What if I used these stamps as postage and they were accepted by the post office and cancelled in the normal way. In this case I have not made a profit but merely used these for postage as any other person would. This to me would be far more collectable irrespective of the date cancelled.

 

I agree that the sudden increase in the amount of FDC's that have been manipulated with other stamps and then put forward as something unique needs to be stopped. The sellers of these covers are prostituting our hobby with endless political variations on covers that have no value or place in organised philately. In some cases they even use CTO stamps and dont blush when this is queried

 

What FDC will be offerd next ? Maybe a combination of rugby stamps from all over the world on our rugby 1996 cover ? What about a selection of soccer stamps on a world cup cover for next year ?. This is going beyond commercialization and is merely the raping of our hobby.

 

This is where an ethics committee would be very usefull

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dstorm

Hello David

 

I agree.

 

In my opinion a President Motlanthe stamp commercially used on a normal envelope must be scarce, definitely scarcer than the alleged First Day Covers.

 

Just about everybody I know bought a couple of sheets. Yet, there is already some spirited bidding on this week’s Wednesday CRAZY Auction. Perhaps you should put up your sheets as well. Sell now, smile now.

 

Can’t wait for Saturday. The dealer with the fast sounding name will surely approach each and every dealer in the hall in private and offer him a couple of sheets as a “special favourâ€.

 

Just look at the wonderful “normal†items up on this week’s Wednesday Crazy Auction: Mafeking Siege, One Pound Kings Head, 2 respectable Penny Blacks, Union Officials Used, Union Essay in a large block, Missing Airmail Tag on RSA FDC, Goldblatt’s Postmark Book, etc, etc. To name but a very few – there are many smaller gems in between.

 

Better than most of the regular Gauteng Saturday Auctions.

 

It proves that there are good and solid dealers on BidorBuy. And many knowledgeable buyers willing to pay for good items.

 

Yet some people would rather bring the hobby into disrepute for the sake of a quick buck.

 

We heard it all before: I invested thousands in stamps and now nobody wants to buy them.

 

Remember the days when the Transkei Medicinal Plants Controls sold for more than the 4d Roto Upright Watermark? Nowadays the factor is 40 to 1 in favour of the 4d. History is forced to repeat itself.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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alloway65

Morning Jacques,

 

The medicinal plants, wood carvings and the first printing of the fishing fly collector sheets etc...I remember them well. I had bought large stocks of all the Homelands first issues and made a lot of geld! Also SA ans SWA in the early 70's were money makers.

I only got into stamps here to be patriotic as I had moved to SA. I was an avid collector and accumulator of UK and Commenwealth stamps when I lived in the UK...and brought a trunk full with me when I emigrated here. UK and Com stamps were popular here and I was selling to dealers at R1 to the pound....the official rate was roughly 2.

 

I must say I had really done nothing with stamps for 20 years or so until I started buying gemstones and selling items on BoB and privately. I offered cupboards full of philatelic material to one of my sons to sell on BoB abour 8 months ago (for free) he declined.

 

Now I have sold a lot of material I thought I would never sell, Maxi Cards, RD sheets and packs, varieties and UK and Commenwealth issues etc.

 

Life, stock markets, stamps and coins etc all go in cycles.....you just must get in and out at the right part of the cycle to make money.

 

I bought a Pres. Motlanthe full sheet and "FDC" mainly for interest. I have had friends scouting PO's but most wont sell and a few have their price.

 

All for now, have good day.

 

Regards

 

David.

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dstorm

Hello evereybody!

 

you just must get in and out at the right part of the cycle to make money

 

Exactly what we are trying to fight in this Forum Topic.

 

I am not taking your words out of context Alloway (I know what you actually mean), but too many traders are doing exactly what is said in the quote.

 

Stamp collecting / dealing / philately is my hobby and passion. Above all it is also my full time career.

 

While it is a free market, I object to part time traders destroying the market with deliberate INCORRECT / MISLEADING descriptions. This type of behaviour is not tolerated on any other section of BidorBuy (I might be mistaken regarding the Gems / Jewelery).

 

Try to sell watches, cameras, computers or coins which are incorrectly described and see what will happen. Why should stamps be treated differently?

 

From what I have gathered in the last two weeks or so, there must be at LEAST 500 President Motlanthe Sheets in circulation (this is only what I know of). In other words 5 000 stamps. There are hardly so many collectors in the RSA! Unlike the case with the Mandela Issue, very few of these stamps will go overseas. The price is bound to fall and fall hard. To describe this stamp as scarce is an outright lie.

 

The are more than a 100 President Motlanthe stamps (in 17 lots) offered on tonight's CRAZY Wednesday Auction. All of them scarce or rare.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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alloway65

Hi Jacques,

 

Just a quickie, we are rushed off our feet at the moment with our medical supply business....we give A1 service and it pays dividends.

 

Re Gemstone Sellers on BoB lots of chancers and for want of a better word crooks!!!!

 

On the coin side a lot of genuine Traders.

 

On the Stamp side, as a Buyer and a Seller, re all my BoB and Private transactions 99.99% great honest people.

 

Have a good day.

 

David

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alloway65

Hi all,

 

A PM Stamp update.

 

Just back from collecting and postang some packages and it appears now that approval has been given to issue the PM stamps next week, lets see if it happens....let the games begin.

 

David

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dstorm

Hello all

 

I believe that the President Motlanthe stamps have been released. I was in too much of a hurry this morning to buy some / check out the facts.

 

Can anybody add to this?

 

Thanks

 

Jacques

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gabriel 1

Hi All

 

The inside info that I have (from 2 post offices) is that the stamps will be released next week. At the moment I would rather buy a forged airmail stamp than on of these. I strongly believe that there are going to be alot of red faces sorrounding this stamp.

 

I looked through all of the Crazy Wednesday material on offer this week and must say apart from the Mothlante stamps there was alot of good items. I was particularly impressed with Savo for putting the Makeking siege items up, I went to R2200 on the Baden-Powell and R1300 on the Mafeking siege. The Baden-Powell realised around R2600 and I got the Mafeking seige for about R1250. These are prices that I am happy with and I am sure Savo is not complaining. I put in decent bids on another 10 or so items but lost out on all of them, I am not sorry that I lost, the items at least fetched good returns for the sellers as they were good items. It just shows that there are collectors willing to pay for good items. What tics me off is that there are sellers that do not have a common stamp amongst their stock, everything is scarce.

 

The man with the fast name will not be selling anything to me on Saturday, I have learnt my lesson in this regard.

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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dstorm

Hello Gabriel

 

The Baden-Powell realised around R2600 and I got the Mafeking siege for about R1250.

 

Are you mad? Paying these prices? You could have bought two Motlanthe sheets for this money!

 

Very seriously though, these stamps have proven themselves over more than ONE HUNDRED YEARS. No fad, no hype. Just stamps with a rock solid track record.

Try to find 500!

 

Wednesday night surely had some good items on. I bought some Railway Specimens (Not on the Crazy Auction) at R25-00 per block. Yes, they are not rare, but not nearly as common as the currently popular sheetlets.

 

At least I know now (because of BidorBuy Forum) how to spell Motlanthe.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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alloway65

I am still puzzled why some Sellers supposedly in the know are still bidding horrendous prices for the PM Sheets.

Maybe they know something we dont!

I still get the spelling wrong thats why I type PM!!!!!

We are all spoilt by SPELL CHECK!!!!

:oops: D

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gabriel 1

At this stage of the game I do not think that it matters very much if the stamp is released or not. There are already so many on the market that it is in my opinion not desirable enough for serious collectors. If you look at Jacques SWA proofs, they are limited to less than 10 in exsistance not on every second listing on Bid or Buy crazy Wednesday. Namibia, unreleased definitive minerals stamp (value escapes me right now), straight into the SACC at high value. Today I bought a Boer War cover from a POW in St Helena to his wife in a Concentration Camp in SA, how many of these do you think are laying around.

 

Regards

Gabriel1

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dstorm

Hello all

 

Two very important points.

 

Point 1: President Mothlante Sheetlets are now howlingly rare. Rarer than Rocking Horse Sh**. There are up to now none being offered for sale on this Wednesday’s CRAZY Action…what a nice break….

 

Point Two. Apparently (total heresay) these Mothlanthe Sheetlets are now available from your local Post Office at R20-50 per sheetlet. Or in plain English, at FACE VALUE. Your best investment ever. It is a Standard Rate Stamp – thus will go up in value every time the Post Office increases the Standard Postage Rate – there is one due on April 1. You can increase your capital by a minimum of 12% in only 30 days. Buy Motlanthe Sheetlets now!

 

I have about 10 available at R1 000-00 each. Please contact me and I will list them on BidorBuy.

 

Please support your local dealer. Dogs to feed, Chinchilla to feed, Horse to feed, Cats to feed, Budgies to feed, Caroline to feed, Grandson to spoil, etc, etc.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

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