Deleting bids from buyers with bad/negative ratings

[Miss Jewels 10]

I received a Community Watch alert from a seller with the following "breaking the law"

Apparently it has to do with my T & C's which states " We reserve the right to delete bids to buyers with bad/negative ratings.

I have spoken to Bennet and we are now no longer allowed to include this. I feel that I should have the right to sell to whom I want, without being discriminating towards new buyers. I have never yet deleted a new bidder, but have deleted bids to buyers with very bad feedback for non payment. I have also deleted bids from buyers who have so requested me to do so.

Any feedback from forum members would be highly appreciated.

[Cali Craft and Gems 10]

I feel that the seller has the right to delete bids where he or she feels that the buyer has numerous ratings with regards to non-payment. Ultimately these individuals are honestly just time-wasters for all concerned. I've recently had a buyer who I had previously blocked (due to non-payment), and as soon as the block was automatically removed, she came along again and placed bids. If a buyer did not complete the previous transaction, chances are that they'll never complete a new transaction.

 

Besides, if sellers are not allowed to delete the bids, then why is it an option under the 'reasons' for deleting a bid?

[Asha Craft 34]

This is very upsetting because I will not do business with a buyer with negative ratings for non-payment, as this simply means lost listing fees (that Bidorbuy gets even if I file an SNC), more relisting fees and a waste of precious time. I will gladly give new bidders a chance because we all started on Bidorbuy with no ratings. But for the love of BoB, please explain to me how we are "scaring away potential bidders" when said bidders bid and bid and bid for the fun of it, knowing they wont make payment when they win the auction?!

[lilythepink 11]

I cannot for the life of me see any sense in this not being able to delete bids by delinquent buyers. I believe that every trader (and we are traders with our "shop window" on BoB) are perfectly, in law, entitled to decide who and who not to sell to. Any sensible trader has "right of admission reserved" as you enter the door of the shop and I feel that where a seller does not want to sell to someone whose ratings are zilch, or very low, such a seller cannot have this right just removed. I do feel, however, that new buyers without any ratings deserve to be treated fairly and should not be denied the right to bid on an item. But, any buyer with less than 90% ratings should be regarded cautiously and the seller should be entitled to delete bids which look as though they will go nowhere!

 

Imagine what a lot of work BoB are going to have to contend with if each seller has to email them about deleting a bid? Have you got the staff to cope with a situation like this? I doubt it and foreseen a tremendous amount of SNCs being filed and making even more work for BoB!

 

Just my 10c worth!

[Seeds for Africa 18]

Bob still allow sellers to delete bids due to the fact that they have this option when deleting a bid. Maybe Bennet should come to the forum to clarify this? Maybe exclude that from your t's & c's and just continue to delete the bids from low rating buyers anyway?

[wayjen 10]

It seems if you have it in Black and White that you will have issues with some people and if you do not have it in Black and White you still have issues with some people so it's a lose lose situation and whilst we understand that BoB wants to make the site friendly for Buyers there might be issues here that make it unfriendly for Sellers too.

[mellowred 10]

.......... I believe that every trader (and we are traders with our "shop window" on BoB) are perfectly, in law, entitled to decide who and who not to sell to. Any sensible trader has "right of admission reserved" as you enter the door of the shop .......

Imagine what a lot of work BoB are going to have to contend with if each seller has to email them about deleting a bid? Have you got the staff to cope with a situation like this? I doubt it and foreseen a tremendous amount of SNCs being filed and making even more work for BoB!

100% agree wit Lil on these two points. The T&Cs reflect something that is "legal" within the BoB system so I cannot understand why you cannot include this on your own listings(?).

 

And yes there will be a noticeable rise in SNCs if sellers are not allowed to delete bids.

 

Also sellers are just losing out on listing fees. Times are tough enough as it is. IMO this is just making it even more difficult for sellers to make an income. No income = no sellers = no buyers.

[MsPlod 10]

And yes there will be a noticeable rise in SNCs if sellers are not allowed to delete bids.

 

Also sellers are just losing out on listing fees.

Have said it before and will state it again - BoB not only does not lose anything - but in fact GAINS something for every SNC and item relisted - you traders keep coughing out success fees - BoB quietly accepts them. Not very fair at all. Now if the circumstance meant that BoB ALSO lost out, maybe they would take action in favour of the traders...

[MiemsJewels 12]

I filed 3 snc against a buyer for non payment. This month it's exactly 1 year ago. She received 3 negative rating from me. Last week she bid and won 1 of my items again. I received payment for it, okay alls fine. Now I am waiting for her to rate ME negative. If I knew she was bidding on my items, I surely would have deleted the bid!

[lilythepink 11]

Have said it before and will state it again - BoB not only does not lose anything - but in fact GAINS something for every SNC and item relisted - you traders keep coughing out success fees - BoB quietly accepts them. Not very fair at all. Now if the circumstance meant that BoB ALSO lost out, maybe they would take action in favour of the traders...

 

Well BoB do refund the commission fee when the SNC is completed and the sale does not go through. But, in the meantime, for 14 days (one can only file a SNC after 7 days, then there is another 7 days in which the "buyer" has time respond) BoB have all the money sitting in their account, no doubt earning interest. So I suppose BoB do gain out of every SNC which is filed even if they refund commission after 14 days. And they get to keep the money paid for any "enhancements" Interesting thought!

[JohnBenn 10]

I believe you have the right to delete bids.It is after all your products,and you should have the right to sell to whom you want.

[qball 12]

Have said it before and will state it again - BoB not only does not lose anything - but in fact GAINS something for every SNC and item relisted - you traders keep coughing out success fees - BoB quietly accepts them. Not very fair at all. Now if the circumstance meant that BoB ALSO lost out, maybe they would take action in favour of the traders...

 

I tend to disagree MsPlod - the amount of work and man hours it takes to wade through the SNC's is mind boggling, not only that, we lose millions of Rands in revenue when the sales don't go through, we don't earn interest, as the bank balance changes up and down daily, hardly enough time to even calculate interest - payout requests, refunds are processed daily etc. Not only that - your payments are only due once a month (around the 7th of the month), it's not like you are charged and debited as soon as the sale takes place!

 

I think all of you are jumping the gun :amazed: - no one said you could not delete bids of non paying bidders or bidders with lots of negative ratings. You do have this option on the site and you can exercise this right in terms of our policies.

 

All we are trying to say is to be less hostile to bidders, and in light of the CPA, which does not like "discrimination", one just needs to be careful how you word these things. We certainly won't allow sellers to state that bids of non rated or new users will be deleted or you must ask permission first before you can bid!

 

I spoke to Bennet, and you can continue to use that as part of your terms but please understand where we are coming from.

 

Thanks!

[qball 12]

Well BoB do refund the commission fee when the SNC is completed and the sale does not go through. But, in the meantime, for 14 days (one can only file a SNC after 7 days, then there is another 7 days in which the "buyer" has time respond) BoB have all the money sitting in their account, no doubt earning interest. So I suppose BoB do gain out of every SNC which is filed even if they refund commission after 14 days. And they get to keep the money paid for any "enhancements" Interesting thought!

 

This would be incorrect. Most of you are Advanced Sellers, which means you are not automatically debited when the sale takes place - it only appears as a debit on your account in a financial sense, you only actually pay us and we only get your money when you are physically billed at month end (when we debit accounts on the 7th)! So most of the time, we actually don't have your money...

 

No interest is earned on bobPay payments as those accounts change balances daily, money coming in and money going out, so the interest is very little if any...

 

Don't get me started on the enhancements! :rolleyes::sowsuser:

 

Right, I've said enough... going home to sulk... :wink:

[Miss Jewels 10]

I think all of you are jumping the gun :amazed: - no one said you could not delete bids of non paying bidders or bidders with lots of negative ratings. You do have this option on the site and you can exercise this right in terms of our policies.

 

All we are trying to say is to be less hostile to bidders, and in light of the CPA, which does not like "discrimination", one just needs to be careful how you word these things. We certainly won't allow sellers to state that bids of non rated or new users will be deleted or you must ask permission first before you can bid!

 

I spoke to Bennet, and you can continue to use that as part of your terms but please understand where we are coming from.

 

Thanks!

 

Thanks Qball. I called in early this morning and this was definitely the message that was passed on to me and this was related to a community watch alert referring to my wording. I have never been discriminating against any buyer/possible buyer, but would prefer not to sell to someone with very bad ratings - hence the wording.

Thank you very much for clarifying this issue. I will reinsert my original wording and continue on my happy way :wink:

Now you can sulk further....:laugh:

[MsPlod 10]

I tend to disagree MsPlod - the amount of work and man hours it takes to wade through the SNC's is mind boggling, not only that, we lose millions of Rands in revenue when the sales don't go through, we don't earn interest, as the bank balance changes up and down daily, hardly enough time to even calculate interest - payout requests, refunds are processed daily etc. Not only that - your payments are only due once a month (around the 7th of the month), it's not like you are charged and debited as soon as the sale takes place!

 

I think all of you are jumping the gun :amazed: - no one said you could not delete bids of non paying bidders or bidders with lots of negative ratings. You do have this option on the site and you can exercise this right in terms of our policies.

 

All we are trying to say is to be less hostile to bidders, and in light of the CPA, which does not like "discrimination", one just needs to be careful how you word these things. We certainly won't allow sellers to state that bids of non rated or new users will be deleted or you must ask permission first before you can bid!

 

I spoke to Bennet, and you can continue to use that as part of your terms but please understand where we are coming from.

 

Thanks!

Good show! - glad to hear that traders can continue to be discerning...

Right, I've said enough... going home to sulk... :wink:

Please come back and play when you have finished sulking.

[Not1CentMore 10]

There is not enough aspirin in the world to 'dull' the 'headaches' Admin has to deal with on a daily basis methinks they need an increase in salary ASAP. [ATTACH=CONFIG]3275[/ATTACH]

 

Ruthie

[qball 12]

Ok, I am finished sulking now... :cheesy:

[kyle2 10]

Hi Cuan, if you really want a pain in the Tigers bum, try and figure out what Ruthie has going on here.......... http://forum.bidorbuy.co.za/community-chat-forum/16687-its-zoo-out-there.html:huh:

Might need some more sulking..:wondering:

Apologies for changing the subject.:rolleyes:

[DavidBinCPT 10]

I agree with almost everything you guys have brought up, except I had the following experience...

 

 

I collect Knives and Swords and last year I purchased a number of knives from a seller (BoysToys), such as : "4 Extreme Ops Knives", etc. The total for the knives was about R157 plus R260 shipping(with no choice but uninsured post-office economail) totalling R417. I paid in full immediately, and the seller gave me the following reviews:

AAA+++ Buyer. Highly recommended. Tracking number to follow

 

I received the knives (eventually), which it must be said, were pretty nice. However they were very very poorly packaged (i.e. some items got unnecessarily and significantly scratched & damaged, just through sheer carelessness & very lazy packaging). I was also a little upset that this poor packaging had in fact constituted 62% of the overall cost of the order. Furthermore (as you can see in the bold item description above) I felt that the seller was intentionally misleading would-be buyers into believing they were purchasing "4 Extreme Ops Knives" and not (as some very fine print later in the item description mentions) only one of the "four great knives"(an opinion that I later saw a number of other buyers had also expressed).

 

As a result, I (in my opinion somewhat charitably) gave the seller 6 neutral ratings and only 1 negative rating with the following comments:

Very nice knives, but poorly packaged. Shipping was 62% of cost even though order was for 7 items. makes money from shipping costs

"4 Great Knives" very misleading, has tiny writing stating that bid is for 1 knife not 4. Why not have 4 auctions?

 

After this, the Seller decided to then change his positive ratings to rude negative ones, essentially "punishing" me for being honest and calling him out on his own practices. But I thought "Cest La Vie", I would prefer to be honest and have a negative rating, than to have a comment I didn't believe in, out of fear of getting a negative rating.

 

I avoided this seller, although I did like his products, and often checked on them, for a number of months, until such time that I saw he had stopped misleading buyers and there were no more complaints regarding the packaging. This took a long time! In fact, it took 10 months! A few days ago, I felt satisfied that I had "paid my schoolfees" or "learnt my lessons", and would not be "duped" again (having had a number of lessons from under-handed sellers over the past 10 months), so I placed bids on a number of items which the seller had, and I had been wanting for a long time. I was careful, scrutinizing every auction, I really wanted those items, and was willing to "give him a second chance".

 

I see today that the seller allowed only ONE of my bids to remain, and deleted the other SEVEN (which I had bid on both because I very much desire the items but also to, this time, attempt and alleviate his exorbitant shipping costs, by combining items), with the following reason given: Buyer has received negative feedback previously from another seller for non-fulfillment.

 

I feel absolutely cheated! Now here I sit AGAIN, with ridiculous shipping costs, this time constituting 83% OF MY ORDER TOTAL!! How can a Seller Pick and choose which bids he should have to honour (from a buyer he knows will pay him), especially when it is expected that Buyers have to honour all of their bids (even if they sometimes do not)!

 

I hope I can challenge the deletion of my bids, since there is no reason why the seller should be able to delete them, I have paid him in the past and will pay him immediately again! He made the auctions and agreed to the terms and conditions therein, I placed the bids and likewise agreed to fulfill my end of the agreement. It is that simple. It seems as though this seller has an endless supply of tricks to screw me over, and is clearly up to his old tricks, i.e.

- trying to intimidate buyers,

- mitigate his own risk while unfairly increasing others' risk,

- misrepresenting himself, his products and his business,

- and taking advantage of new buyers (who have yet to become as cynical as me)

 

I truly believe that this sort of behaviour undermines all of us on BidorBuy, and worst of all, hurts and disincentivises the numerous brilliant, friendly, honest, careful and hardworking sellers with whom I have also done business with in the last year.

[lilythepink 11]

Hello and welcome to the forum, David.

 

I think your position should be reported to communitywatch@bidorbuy.co.za, especially if it can prevent buyers from suffering similar fates.

[kebs 15]

If the auction hasn't closed, & you don't want to pay the high shipping costs for one item, you can also email the seller & ask him to cancel your bid..

[DavidBinCPT 10]

Thanks, I will do that