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ATA STAMP CENTRE

New ratings format?

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JORYHA TRADING

So how does this new rating with price included and visible apply to those " personal offers" ? Just curious.

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qball
Brick and Mortar shops do not display to the public what they sold items for on any given day, it is a transaction between shopkeeper and the customer at that specific time?

 

This is mind boggling,

 

This is not a traditional bricks and mortar operation - you cannot apply real world scenarios to online trading - 2 very different things. It is common practice and the industry standard to show sold prices with ratings.

 

Besides that, traditional stores have the prices displayed on the shelves, it is easy enough to count the stock on the shelf, check it a few days later to see what sold and for how much, and then work out sales that way... not mind boggling at all...

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meeks
This is not a traditional bricks and mortar operation - you cannot apply real world scenarios to online trading - 2 very different things. It is common practice and the industry standard to show sold prices with ratings.

 

Besides that, traditional stores have the prices displayed on the shelves, it is easy enough to count the stock on the shelf, check it a few days later to see what sold and for how much, and then work out sales that way... not mind boggling at all...

 

Sorry, what I perceived as mind boggling, was not what was done(the new rating format) but the fact that it was not run by the sellers to get their input on the matter. After all a sale (even online) is a transaction between "shopkeeper" and customer.

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JohnBenn
Please could you elaborate how this will attract scammers and hackers?

 

Hi Gball - PLEASE DELETE THIS POST WHEN YOU HAVE READ IT,I DON'T WANT TO GIVE THEM IDEAS.

 

Say for instance a scammer sees I made thousands(remember my earnings are now there in the open to attract their attention).So they buy an item from me for the sole purpose of getting my email and other details.Then they download or have already a program that will give them my email password and BoB password.(this happens all the time on FB).Next step they change my banking details,and ask for a payout.I assume at this stage you(BoB) will first confirm the new banking details.....They have access to my email so they can say yes the new information is mine.Then you make the payment and after a couple of days I realize I don't have money in my BoB account anymore.

 

This might sound over the top, but after 4 years of seeing scams on another site (Fine Art America),and actually getting scam emails(I mean private massages) myself (to get my email address),it might not be.These buggers get smarter everyday. And I guess this post isn't helping the problem,

so please delete it when done.

 

Thanks

Edited by JohnBenn

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oaks and acorns

I repeat...

 

Every sensible South African citizen at some level knows that this kind of thing is just not on.

 

If a seller abuses the system (as purported in this thread) BoB still has reasonable control over the situation. In joe cool's case, BoB has none.

Zero.

Zilch.

Nothing.

 

And neither does joe.

 

Fortunately this is not very likely to affect me and my low-value items, although one can never fully anticipate or fathom the minds of criminals and other oddities.

 

I have been a seller for a mere 3 months and the reason for signing up was because of the extra stock and bits and pieces that accumulate and which I love buying. That done it became evident that since I have access to certain items it might be worth a shot to give BoB a try. Also, figured there'd be a time in the not too far future when I might want to not do so much of what I now do.

 

One of my motto's is; if you build it they will come. The other is; start small, dream big, don't waste money.

BoB seemed the perfect place to build something and make it work, and in time I could introduce other items/categories.

 

Then I got to fiddling about on the web and have 4, perhaps 5 points in place at which potential buyers could be directed to access to my products and, of course, BoB - this now only requires a name change and logo more suited to the current items on offer, and a feed page to be put in place.

 

However, as things stand now I am quite reluctant to introduce new members of the public to a system where potential flaws and the voices of (seemingly) the majority of active forum members (as a sample) are disregarded.

 

So, a change of plan perhaps. To leave my BoB stuff as it is, and if people buy my items on BoB in the natural course of their wanderings then that's great - but now to rather direct my attention towards building elsewhere. I have found a lovely shopping cart that requires snippets of html and could be easily crafted by the average BoB seller, and also includes online assistance. Anyone interested in the shopping cart coding is welcome to pm me.

Edited by oaks and acorns

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qball
Hi Gball - PLEASE DELETE THIS POST WHEN YOU HAVE READ IT,I DON'T WANT TO GIVE THEM IDEAS.

 

Say for instance a scammer sees I made thousands(remember my earnings are now there in the open to attract their attention).So they buy an item from me for the sole purpose of getting my email and other details.Then they download or have already a program that will give them my email password and BoB password.(this happens all the time on FB).Next step they change my banking details,and ask for a payout.I assume at this stage you(BoB) will first confirm the new banking details.....They have access to my email so they can say yes the new information is mine.Then you make the payment and after a couple of days I realize I don't have money in my BoB account anymore.

 

This might sound over the top, but after 4 years of seeing scams on another site (Fine Art America),and actually getting scam emails(I mean private massages) myself (to get my email address),it might not be.These buggers get smarter everyday. And I guess this post isn't helping the problem,

so please delete it when done.

 

Thanks

 

Your "earnings" were already in the public domain - what we have introduced now won't cause an increase in scams. Phishing attempts will always be around no matter what - what you are stating here has been happening even prior to this change. That is why you need to be cautious when receiving "those" types of mails. Secondly, not everyone accepts bobPay, payments might be made directly to the seller, so them getting access to your account to request payouts will prove fruitless.

 

What you are stating here is nothing new - you just need to arm yourselves against this and be wary as there are chancers out there who will try anything. Again, I cannot see how this will increase scams? If they really want your details they will come up with all sorts of other ways to do it - it is highly unlikely that displaying selling prices which are already available to the general public will cause an increase in this activity.

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Miss Jewels

I agree our earnings were always there to see, but it was discreet - you had to log onto the item to actually see the transaction. This has absolutely nothing to do with ratings and the price a client paid should not have any bearing on the actual rating. A rating is the buyers' overall experience of the buyer or seller, and has nothing to do with the price they paid.:disgusted:

In the past, BoB have made changes they thought were better (view similar items at the bottom of the pages) where users were also unhappy about. I feel that the least that BoB could have done was asked their clients' input. The new system is so far, a huge no-no from the users. Surely your clients are the more important issue here? :unsure:I kindly request that this idea is reconsidered as it really does not carry the approval of the actual client (us).

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qball
I repeat...

 

 

 

Fortunately this is not very likely to affect me and my low-value items, although one can never fully anticipate or fathom the minds of criminals and other oddities.

 

I have been a seller for a mere 3 months and the reason for signing up was because of the extra stock and bits and pieces that accumulate and which I love buying. That done it became evident that since I have access to certain items it might be worth a shot to give BoB a try. Also, figured there'd be a time in the not too far future when I might want to not do so much of what I now do.

 

One of my motto's is; if you build it they will come. The other is; start small, dream big, don't waste money.

BoB seemed the perfect place to build something and make it work, and in time I could introduce other items/categories.

 

Then I got to fiddling about on the web and have 4, perhaps 5 points in place at which potential buyers could be directed to access to my products and, of course, BoB - this now only requires a name change and logo more suited to the current items on offer, and a feed page to be put in place.

 

However, as things stand now I am quite reluctant to introduce new members of the public to a system where potential flaws and the voices of (seemingly) the majority of active forum members (as a sample) are disregarded.

 

So, a change of plan perhaps. To leave my BoB stuff as it is, and if people buy my items on BoB in the natural course of their wanderings then that's great - but now to rather direct my attention towards building elsewhere. I have found a lovely shopping cart that requires snippets of html and could be easily crafted by the average BoB seller, and also includes online assistance. Anyone interested in the shopping cart coding is welcome to pm me.

 

Thanks for your comments Dreamstone. These are not flaws by any stretch of the imagination - you are welcome to view any online auction site - if not all, maybe one or two won't show selling prices with ratings, but on the whole, this is standard practice and common amongst online environments like ours and there are legitimate and sound reasons for making this change. bidorbuy is not a democracy where we have to always get approval from our users first, we do on occasion consult with our customers (more often than not - nor that we are required to do so), but this is not required every time we need to make a decision about something or to make a change to our site - we would never get anything accomplished if we had to consult users on every aspect of the site or every decision we would like to make. This change will not jeopardize the security of the site nor will it make it easier for hackers unless YOU give them the information they require...

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qball

Not on auction sites I'm afraid - selling prices are displayed with ratings. We don't always have to "run" things past sellers to get the go ahead unfortunately... :smile:

 

The whole point of a feedback system and rating system is to provide transparency to assist people in making decisions, that is why there is a rating system on all sites similar to ours. It provides for information on the products, the sellers or buyers and their conduct, behaviour and track record (as there is no face to face interaction), it revolves around trust and reliability, In real world auctions, the final bid amount is made known and the winning bidder is mentioned or pointed out. So the winning bid amount is not kept private and anyone attending the auction will know how much the item sold for. This information can also be made public if need be. Showing a price does not tell anyone what your actual income is, your profit, how much money you have left over or your true earnings - it's a selling price - often a useful guide to prospective buyers, and sellers who may be selling similar items to gauge what the items might sell for, thus determining a market related price. Again, all this information is readily and easily available to anyone who may be interested, they just need to click a few more times - it won't stop anyone from doing this if they really want to know your sales total.

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Miss Jewels

What happens in the case of personal offers? Is the price also displayed next to the rating? Thas will not be koscher at all...

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oaks and acorns
This change will not jeopardize the security of the site nor will it make it easier for hackers unless YOU give them the information they require...

 

Yup, every time a sale is made.

 

(I am not referring to hacking in my posts)

Edited by oaks and acorns

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meeks
What happens in the case of personal offers? Is the price also displayed next to the rating? Thas will not be koscher at all...

 

I checked on my ratings for personal offers, and yes the price is displayed, but one has to login to see the actual listing for the item offered

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qball
I agree our earnings were always there to see, but it was discreet - you had to log onto the item to actually see the transaction. This has absolutely nothing to do with ratings and the price a client paid should not have any bearing on the actual rating. A rating is the buyers' overall experience of the buyer or seller, and has nothing to do with the price they paid.:disgusted:

In the past, BoB have made changes they thought were better (view similar items at the bottom of the pages) where users were also unhappy about. I feel that the least that BoB could have done was asked their clients' input. The new system is so far, a huge no-no from the users. Surely your clients are the more important issue here? :unsure:I kindly request that this idea is reconsidered as it really does not carry the approval of the actual client (us).

 

We do understand that. But no logging in is required, it's literally a single click away. The sales history has never been made discreet - it has always been on the closed listing page - which is also searchable on google once indexed. Actually it is a very good guide for buyers in particular, especially when trying to look at quality of products, actual selling prices and determining whether sellers offer good service even if they sell items for R1 on auction. It also helps from a safety point of view - if a seller sells lots of items at R1, small inexpensive items, and then suddenly starts selling high priced items, it allows the buyer to make an informed decision before purchasing and see if the seller is in fact delivering on the higher priced items.

 

Of course you are important but we will not always consult with you first or get your approval before we make a decision :smile:. I stand by this comment - we are far more interactive and consultative than many other sites out there, but there will be times when we make changes or decisions which you may not agree with or are happy about.

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qball
Yup, every time a sale is made.

 

(I am not referring to hacking in my posts)

 

I was referring to hacking/phishing as that was what the post was about. Classified sites are notorious for phishing scams and for collecting personal details (which are often publicly displayed) which makes it even easier.

 

You run that risk on every other website, platform, etc. including your own... if you wish to trade online there are some pitfalls, these will never go away, not even on your own website, you just need to manage that risk, as with any other type of business.

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qball
What happens in the case of personal offers? Is the price also displayed next to the rating? Thas will not be koscher at all...

 

This is a sale so it will be shown.

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oaks and acorns
I was referring to hacking/phishing as that was what the post was about. Classified sites are notorious for phishing scams and for collecting personal details (which are often publicly displayed) which makes it even easier.

 

The post before mine was about hacking/phishing, mine was about real time offline risk.

 

You run that risk on every other website, platform, etc. including your own... if you wish to trade online there are some pitfalls, these will never go away, not even on your own website, you just need to manage that risk, as with any other type of business.

 

Agreed. And part of managing that risk would be to not flash valuables or put features in place that would invite trouble.

Edited by oaks and acorns

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

They can gladly show all my sales, i make peanuts.jpg.788a48d4d3a1508dad5a6db67d9bdc0d.jpg anyway:nuts:

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Miss Jewels

That's not cool at all. In the past, personal offers were not available to anyone. By displaying this could affect sales in the long term. Is there any way that even just this can be kept "personal"?

This is a sale so it will be shown.

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qball
The post before mine was about hacking/phishing, mine was about real time offline risk.

 

 

 

Agreed. And part of managing that risk would be to not flash valuables or put features in place that would invite trouble.

 

This "feature" will not increase this risk - this pricing information has always been available - on every online market place or auction site. In our view this does not pose a further security risk as there is no logical reason or explanation as to how the risk can be increased. The discussion here is purely hypothetical/opinion - there has never been any reported instance relating to pricing causing any problems (when it is made publicly available).

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

I'm kinda positive about it, for example ppl can see that somebody bought something for R3000.00 from you with a positive rating they would gladly spend that kind of money or more without being worried about getting ripped off.

 

Besides BOB would never do anything to harm their customers....they love us!:nuts:

Without US there is no BOB

 

Hey Qball while we are on this bob topic...i stumbled upon a site called mytrade.co.za last night. It looks like the knock-off version of this site?

 

Whatkind huh? :smile:

Edited by ATOMICSQUIRREL

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voldermort
I'm kinda positive about it, for example ppl can see that somebody bought something for R3000.00 from you with a positive rating they would gladly spend that kind of money or more without being worried about getting ripped off.

 

This is true - just wish they had left the photos behind so the people could see without having to click what exactly it was that they spent that R3000 on.

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qball
That's not cool at all. In the past, personal offers were not available to anyone. By displaying this could affect sales in the long term. Is there any way that even just this can be kept "personal"?

 

Only the buyer and seller can see that it was a personal offer - no one else can see that, so for all intents and purposes this is just another sale.

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oaks and acorns
This "feature" will not increase this risk - this pricing information has always been available - on every online market place or auction site. In our view this does not pose a further security risk as there is no logical reason or explanation as to how the risk can be increased. The discussion here is purely hypothetical/opinion - there has never been any reported instance relating to pricing causing any problems (when it is made publicly available).

 

So we agree to disagree then. It was my gut feeling that got me out of bed at 1am this morning to walk down to the office and post my concerns. I will always respect my gut feeling.

 

Mission accomplished.

Edited by oaks and acorns

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qball
I'm kinda positive about it, for example ppl can see that somebody bought something for R3000.00 from you with a positive rating they would gladly spend that kind of money or more without being worried about getting ripped off.

 

Besides BOB would never do anything to harm their customers....they love us!:nuts:

Without US there is no BOB

 

Hey Qball while we are on this bob topic...i stumbled upon a site called mytrade.co.za last night. It looks like the knock-off version of this site?

 

Whatkind huh? :smile:

 

Exactly!

 

We are aware of them... thanks :smile:

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ATOMICSQUIRREL
Exactly!

 

We are aware of them... thanks :smile:

 

 

I wouldn't stress about them 2 much Qball, i have more items in my wallet then they have on the whole site.:nuts:

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