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coinoisseur

Mandela Coins Exposed

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Very interesting article published in the 'Personal Finance" magazine. 16 pages exposing the Mandela coins and warning buyers. This was coming a long time and from early as 2001 I have warned everyone on this. I got a copy from CNA.

 

 

Cheers

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I have yet to read the article but I often come across people with R5 Mandela coins wanting to sell them and ask "make me an offer" and then they might make mention that one sold for R250 000.00 or something etc etc. I am tempted to ask them if they want to buy mine and see what they offer me if they think it can/will sell for thousands.

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Free publicity for SAGCE and Scoin shop, I'm sure Alan Demby is smiling.

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icon1.png

"Free publicity for SAGCE and Scoin shop, I'm sure Alan Demby is smiling."
This is what PBGold posted and it contains a good measure of truth. BUT this whole SAGCE was really due for exposing. I posted a thread called : "Medallions sold as coins"
(if I remember correctly)
calling this abuse of the Mandela name as my personal opinion, since it may be legal, I do not know. Dirk

Edited by qball
Removed wording
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"Free publicity for SAGCE and Scoin shop, I'm sure Alan Demby is smiling."
This is what PBGold posted and it contains a good measure of truth. BUT this whole SAGCE was really due for exposing. I posted a thread called : "Medallions sold as coins"
(if I remember correctly)
calling this abuse of the Mandela name as my personal opinion, since it may be legal, I do not know. Dirk

 

Hi Dirk

 

Check your font settings - I think there might be something wrong there?

 

Pierre

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Will the SA Mint Numismatics survive without Mandela Coins?

 

I doubt that the Numismatics at the SA Mint will show a profit if no Mandela coins are made.

 

If you look at the SA Mint sales over the past few years you will notice that they have had a huge drop in sales (After the Last Mandela Birthday Sets)

 

In 2011 the SA Mint released the 2011 Reserve Bank Coin Series which features Mandela. The 2011 Rand Anniversary Series was a big mess... The Silver Set was issued at R4500 - this set contained a 29 gram silver banknote replica and the proof R5 coin. The release price was too high - R4500???

 

We bought a few sets last week at 10% below SA Mint issue price - they just not selling.....

 

So what will the SA Mint profit on if no MANDELA coin?

 

National Anthem Series?

John Maxwell Coetzee Series?

Nadine Gordimer?

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A young member of our family sent me this link yesterday after we had discussions re him starting to collect coins!

 

This Website gave him, and probably others, the wrong idea re prices that could be realized re Mandala Birthday Coins!

 

Mandela Coins | 90th Birthday Coins | Official Website

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I purchased the Personal Finance and read the articles, there's actually a few of them dealing with different topics.

 

Now it would take a long time to 'unpack' these articles and point out the glaring irregularities and shocking contradictions, but in a nutshell I do see this as an attack on SAGCE and Scoin.(Probably orchestrated by bitter financial institutions that saw their paper investments blown away in the wind during the global financial meltdown of 2008. Since Gold has stood so strong during these trying financial times, these institutions love taking pot shots at physical Gold.)

 

I am not a big fan of this type of journalism either, where something is 'trashed' and then at the end of it all a 'better option' is revealed with a convenient advert strategically placed. I love how the articles keep mentioning the 'gullible' public and then on the last few pages we see adverts of the way you should be buying gold.

 

That really was the kicker, because that one fact assigned all of the articles to the dustbin of history.

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I purchased the Personal Finance and read the articles, there's actually a few of them dealing with different topics.

 

Now it would take a long time to 'unpack' these articles and point out the glaring irregularities and shocking contradictions, but in a nutshell I do see this as an attack on SAGCE and Scoin.(Probably orchestrated by bitter financial institutions that saw their paper investments blown away in the wind during the global financial meltdown of 2008. Since Gold has stood so strong during these trying financial times, these institutions love taking pot shots at physical Gold.)

 

I am not a big fan of this type of journalism either, where something is 'trashed' and then at the end of it all a 'better option' is revealed with a convenient advert strategically placed. I love how the articles keep mentioning the 'gullible' public and then on the last few pages we see adverts of the way you should be buying gold.

 

That really was the kicker, because that one fact assigned all of the articles to the dustbin of history.

 

Yep, you are so right.

 

Pierre

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Hello all

It is called “Sunshine Journalism”. The article is normally written with the strategically placed advert (at a tremendous premium) in mind.

Keep well and regards

Jacques

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Hi PBgold,

 

I take your point about the strategic placement of the series of anti-Mandela Coin articles in relation to the succeding article on how to invest in real Gold. It may be true or may be not so.

 

It is however important to put before the public certain facts like how really common and oversold the Mandela birthday coin is - Are they told by SAGCE/SACCor/SCoin shop of a Mintage figure of 22 106 000 grading 115 000 before purchase?? or have they got Bid or buy sales data to show how really cheap these coins are at this very moment?? That is not in their commercial interest of course.

 

I for one am really greatful to these Journalists for putting all the facts behind the Mandela coin medallion issue on the table even if it may not be welcome in those quarters who derive their income from it. I do not think their exposure was untrue.

 

The article on how arbitrary the price of a Mandela/de Klerk Medallion is at R40,000 as set up by the sellers and how really far it is above the current Gold price of R13,500 for just one once of Bullion! The public can decide if the Mandela Hype is worth the extra premium after reading the fundamentals as laid out by these Personal Finance articles.

 

I fully agree with Peter Wilson that the Mandela Birthday Coin prices constitute a massive rip off at the prices that the pressure salesman of SA Coin sell them at and are a blight on "the noble hobby of Numismatics". The time consuming process of selling a coin along with mintage, grading stats and previous sales data in a verifiable unpressurised open market is not adhered to.It is really necessary to do this in order that the buyer makes properly informed decisions when buying any coin so that he or she is not left paying too much.

 

The SCoin Shop are pretending to sell rare Numismatics and I have gone to one with a graded Proof ZAR 2/6 in my pocket and after them showing me their "rare" medallions and copied ZAR Crown, I showed the salesman this really rare gem with a mintage of around 50. He hadnt really ever seen one and didnt disagree with me that this coin was really what rare coins were about. I suppose they have high overheads to pay at OR Thambo Airport and need to create their market along wuth the SA Mint in ready supply.

 

These articles could have instead of highlighting the 1913 Liberty Nickel as one of the rarest coins in the world (one of 5 ?), could have brought this closer to home with prices fetched by some of our very own Numismatic Gems some of which are really Unique - Like the OFS Pattern as part of George de Bruin collection in the UK and the 1928 Brass Pattern Sovereign at Heritage Auctions (R1,8 Million) . These are exclusive Gems in our Numismatic History and will never be tainted by the crass commercialism of the self serving Mandela Coin/Medallion story.

 

Geejay

 

Edited by geejay50
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Hi Geejay,

 

Yes, a lot of what was said is true, and of course the public must be as educated and informed as possible. I wish I had the time for a comprehensive response but I don't.

 

However, for someone to make comments about something being 'overpriced' or 'exorbitant' they had better first make sure that they have the breakdown in the costing of that product. Anyone who has a brain will know that SAGCE does not pay spot gold for their Mandela medallions. To say that these medallions are too expensive because they are R 40 000 and spot at that time was just over R 13 000 is not just reckless, its absurd. It in no way forms a basis for an argument. It is selecting convenient 'facts' and touting them as fundamentals. We don't know how much SAGCE pays the Mint of Norway for those medallions. It could be R 20 000 or it could be R 30 000. We can only guess and guessing doesn't equal fact. Also, I have learned from personal experience that the royalties payable to the foundation are extreme. SAGCE probably also included a price buffer of a few thousand Rand in order to protect themselves against a rising Gold price, which is totally understandable. Our own Mint does it. (Heard any recent complaints about a 1 Oz selling for R 17 700?)

 

There is no doubt in my mind that this was an attack on SAGCE and Scoin. A poorly concealed one, but still very interesting at least. There is definitely a 'silent war' on the go between dealers in older coins such as Unions, ZARs etc. and dealers in modern coins such as Proteas, Naturas etc. and magazine articles like these are used as battlegrounds. One should question all statements and wonder about motives.

 

Just for the record, I am in no way affiliated to SAGCE or Scoin, these are just my personal thoughts.

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I am not a follower/lover of SAGCE, I did buy Proof Kruger Rands in the 80's when it was under different ownership!

I assume the The Mint of Norway only Mint these special Mandela etc Medallions for SAGCE and hence SAGCE will have to bear the full cost of the die design and manufacture, which will be substantial with such short production runs, not to mention the design and manufacture of the Medallions packaging etc!

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