There are sellers one should wish to avoid

[ANTONDIRK 10]

I am having a terrible time with a seller who sent me the wrong coin. He is known as "brandona12" and is from Cape Town. The complaints department of BoB have sent him my complaints, but he is rude and unresponsive. The coin I bought and paid for was a ZAR 1892 1d which looked like quite a nice coin. brandona12 had some more of these 1892 Pennies on sale at the same time. The one he sent me is different from all those he posted. The one I received was polished a bright copper-yellow and the great Bobber 4kids, a friend of mine, looked at the photographs he posted and compared it to the photo's I took of the coin I received. He too is absolutely sure that the 2 coins are different.

Brandona12 says he doesn't give refunds as the buyer sees what he bought. Now I have proved the coins are different and he now says he doesn't give refunds because he can't be sure he will receive the same coin he sent.

A lot of BoB transactions, if not all, are well based in trust from and to the seller. Brandona12 is not to be trusted. I have other reservations about the coins he posted and sent to me, but I reserve them for when I take him to court, which I will do as it is a matter of principle to me.

May I take this oppurtunity to warn collectors and investors alike against brandona12.

Thanks for hearing me out. Dirk (aka ANTONDIRK)

Ps. Can one post photographs on the forum? D.

[4kids 10]

 

The above pictures of the coin Dirk Bought on BOB:

 

Full description and listing here: Bronze Coins - VERY VERY HIGH GRADE !! 1892 ZAR PENNY !!!!! was sold for R750.00 on 14 Dec at 07:15 by brandona12 in Cape Town (ID:51544427)

 

 

The following pictures of what Dirk received.

 

[4kids 10]

and the last three pictures of the coin Dirk Received. All this for a measly R 750.00.

 

 

Dirk, I can give the following advise.

 

Obviously you can take this up in small claims court which is the civil legal avenue.

 

Alternatively you can also go the criminal route and the charges would be

 

1. Fraud

2. alternative charge of - Theft Under False Pretense

 

You can also take this up under the new Consumer Protection Act ncc@thedti.gov.za/ www.nccsa.org.za

 

This seller should rather just refund your money and get his polished coin back from you.

 

It does not matter which way you go, being retired you have all the time in the world to make life so difficult for the seller. Good luck and let us know what happened.

 

Regards

Jan

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

Hi'

I know i might be wrong and my opinion means nothing but those two coins are identical.

If you look at the 2 hairline scratches underneath E & K of REPUBLIEK they are identical.

I would say the bluff is all on clever photography.

 

It looks like a sepia tone was added to make it look ALMOST flawless

 

Regardless if you are not happy you should at least get a refund.

 

I think Pierre Henri should take a look at it also.

 

:blink1:

Edited February 2, 2012 by ATOMICSQUIRREL

[Miss Jewels 10]

Vortechz, these were my thoughts exactly. I am no coin expert, but I think that photoshop has played a huge role here. The item received by the buyer is definitely not like the picture so totally misleading. In my opinion, the seller should give him a full refund and I think BoB should also get involved here.

[kimbo11 12]

Vortechz: after your comment i had a look as well, i am just a newbi at this, but if you look at the "nick" just below the 1 of 1 penny the "nick" is on both pic's

So i think you are right but what can we as buyers do in the future, should BoB insist if you alter the pic that you say so?

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

Vortechz: after your comment i had a look as well, i am just a newbi at this, but if you look at the "nick" just below the 1 of 1 penny the "nick" is on both pic's

So i think you are right but what can we as buyers do in the future, should BoB insist if you alter the pic that you say so?

 

It is very difficult to say kimbo, everybody uses diff cameras and lighting techniques to make their products look as good as possible.

I cannot say that the coin Dirk bought was intensionally photographed that way to mislead the buyer and i am not going to point any fingers.

 

However i do believe that if a buyer is not happy with the product they should be reimbursed.

To implement certain rules on Bob regarding the photography on products would be a nightmare.

 

As a coin collector it is diff to grade a coin just by looking at a photograph, i need to see it in my hands and study it under the "microscope" ,and for that exact same reason we as customers should reserve the right to return coins/products we are not happy with.

This should apply to anything you buy online.

 

Dirk is not happy with the product. He should be reimbursed, end of story.

 

Just my 2c

Edited February 2, 2012 by ATOMICSQUIRREL

[4kids 10]

Did anyone see that the seller advertised this coins as -

 

"THIS COIN WAS GRADED HIGH BY NGC BUT KIDS REMOVED FROM HOLDER"

[Bellcoin 10]

Altering the tone, color or any other form of photographic manipulation of any item that is offered for sale is construed as deceptive representation in the new CPA.

 

Any person who purchases an item and the item is mis-represented is entitled to a full refund or alternatively taking the matter to the Consumer Court.

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

Quoted "Ordinary parcel with tracking R40. Combine fee of R3 per lot extra. Cash deposits add R18. IF CORRECT PAYMENT IS NOT RECEIVED ITEM WILL NOT BE SEND. Once i deliver to the post office i am no longer responsible. I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR POSTAL LOSSES AS YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO INSURE THE PARCEL AT 3% OF TOTAL VALUE. no refunds as you see what you bought."

 

 

Edited February 2, 2012 by ATOMICSQUIRREL

[GemDeals 10]

They are the exact same coins. However the original photo's were done by a normal scanner and that made them look like they have a patina.

 

I looked at most of the items, and it seems most of his coins have been cleaned? No value there unfortunately.

[MiemsJewels 12]

They are the exact same coins. However the original photo's were done by a normal scanner and that made them look like they have a patina.

 

I looked at most of the items, and it seems most of his coins have been cleaned? No value there unfortunately.

 

My 2 pence worth, and I am also not a coin expert. The coins have definitley been cleaned! Brasso perhaps? But who cleaned it is the question?

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

My 2 pence worth, and I am also not a coin expert. The coins have definitley been cleaned! Brasso perhaps? But who cleaned it is the question?

 

The kids, when they broke it out of the high grade NGC container...?:nuts:

[ANTONDIRK 10]

Dear vortechz,

You have a point and that is part of my reasons for complaints against the seller to Bob. There are some real similarities, BUT there are also very real differences. These are particularly visible when the photo's are zoomed and when you hold the received coin in the hand while looking also at the coin posted on Bob. I really have a problem - I THINK the 2 coins were struck from the same die, which is not the die the official mint made. So I THINK we have two clever forgeries of which the one I received had been polished. The polishing should have taken care of at least 2 spots on the Reverse if it had been the same coin that I paid for, but they are conspicuously absent on the coin posted on Bob. If I had both coins for inspection by some knowledgable collectors who are neutral we might have gotten to some conclusion one way or another. But I don't want the coin I paid for anymore as I have suspicions about it.

The photo's I took of the coin I received were taken in different light and angles and on them all the differences are marked. Thanks to Jan 4kids and to you vortechz for your time and attention. It is greatly appreciated. Dirk

[ANTONDIRK 10]

Dear Miss Jewels, Thanks for your input. I don't have photshop and brandona12 claims he scanned the coin's two sides. I use a program called Picasa which is free from the internet. I don't think it can do things like altering light or appearance. All I do is crop and zoom - is my age showing? I've asked Bertus Rothman of Bob's complaints department but it does not look like Bob has teeth. When I have won the court case I will have the wherewithall for Bob to blaclist the seller. Thanks everybody for your input. You make me proud to be a Bobber. Dirk

[Little Miss Muffet 73]

These are the same coins but tone has been altered

Note the markings in these photographs Mark above lions head,below tulip and below scroll are in identical places on the coin.This coin was cleaned after it was photographed or edited after it was photographed

Edited February 2, 2012 by geewhizz

[Bargain Coins 10]

Thanks to bobber LUKENESS informing of this thread, i would not have known about this posting. I only registered today and this can be confirmed by BOB as i have no need of this forum. First of all as i told ANTON DIRK via email and through BOB response that i will gladly see him in court so he can proof all his allegations:

1. that i mint forgeries, in cahoots with chinese forgerers,

2. that coin sent was different to recieved coin,

3. that i cleaned the said coin,

4. that i use enhanched methods to alter the coin appearance etc etc.

 

As i buy and sell lots of coins i do not worry if coins have been cleaned or not as the coin itself is of value to me, i also do not worry about grades or grading of coins as every grader will differ in opinion as he or she seems fit, and to me this is just a money making scheme. then regarding BRASSO i do not posses that as i have no copper to clean, but strangely a lot of coin dealers seems to sell coin cleaning products but do not clean the shiny coins they sell. This is a hobby and not my income and ANTON DIRK should have used dialoque firstly instead of accusations. If i accuse you falsely will you still speak to me??

 

i stated in the listing that the coin was previously graded, yes it was by NGC (number witheld). the coin was scanned on my LEXMARK scanner as i do with all my coins. The only pics i can take is with my digital camera of big items and even that i cannot modify ecxept make the pic bigger or smaller. The camera cannot take pics of coins as it blurr and nothing can be seen. What i have seen lately is that i can scan inverted and i do si now as faults on coins appear better if scanned inverted. That coin was scanned, marked and listed, then sold and shipped to the buyer. To the other comments, my advise is to listen to both sides befor you make conclusions.