SACGS vs. SANGS - Which Grading Services is the best ?

[multi collection 10]

SACGS vs. SANGS - Which Grading Services is the best ?

[CoinHELP 10]

Here's some info on grading services

 

Maybe this might help Third Party Coin Grading Services Companies Images Facts

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

I emailed SANGS like a week ago for some info, still no reply not even an automated message....so much for service.

[PBGold 10]

Strictly speaking, SANGS isn't even up and running yet, so it may be a bit premature to judge them on anything.

[multi collection 10]

I've emailed to SANGS, it did replay to me, but for the SACGS did not response

[multi collection 10]

A least I've emailed to SANGS they had reply me with contact number & physical address, for SACGS I emailed like a 3 weeks ago for some info, still no reply (no physical address detail & no contact number)

[cacberg 10]

Sacgs

 

SACGS is the worst grading company you can get, i send 1000's of coins to NGC and also to SANGS, i did send 2 coins one for grading and one for re slab, it is now close to 4 month's. i call NO ANSWER send mails NO ANSWER.

[Gold Reef 10]

Hi There, any SANGS related queries can be sent to my email address. craig@grcmint.co.za. We are sure to get mails to this address.

[Pierre_Henri 23]

SACGS is the worst grading company you can get, i send 1000's of coins to NGC and also to SANGS, i did send 2 coins one for grading and one for re slab, it is now close to 4 month's. i call NO ANSWER send mails NO ANSWER.

 

He is probably in jail

[kyle2 10]

He is probably in jail

 

That's hilarious!:laugh:

[Pierre_Henri 23]

SA Police

 

That's hilarious!:laugh:

Hi Kyle

 

This is actually not a joke

 

SACGS is probaly a major scam of late and I am sure the police are on this case.

 

Herman van Noordwyk is a controversial figure – bly BAIE ver weg ...

 

 

Pierre

[Pierre_Henri 23]

Hi Kyle

 

This is actually not a joke

 

SACGS is probaly a major scam of late and I am sure the police are on this case.

 

Herman van Noordwyk is a controversial figure – bly BAIE ver weg ...

 

Pierre

 

Well actually - everywhere he goes - he goes wrong ... Cats or Coins - take your pick ...

 

 

OFFICIAL STATEMENT

[kyle2 10]

Well actually - everywhere he goes - he goes wrong ... Cats or Coins - take your pick ...

 

 

OFFICIAL STATEMENT

 

Cats? Who could have guessed? wtf? :wtf:

Edited May 8, 2013 by kyle2

[Pierre_Henri 23]

Just contact the South African Police

 

Since this post, I have been inundated by calls from BidorBuyers whose coins have been stolen.

Please contact the South African Police and register a formal complaint and let them open an official case.

There is no other way.

 

Pierre

[Ricks_Coins 10]

Both SANGS and SACGS ARE RUBBISH!!

 

I find both companys to be useless, many coins at SANGS are wrong grades!!! Wouldnt bother with them, rather send to professional services like NGC and PCGS!! Specially at the Durban coin show,SANGS graded terrible, all kinds of foreign material sealed in the slab itself, unprofessional, handling all coins with bare hands and still touching the coins surface etc.... Still awaiting feedback!! Thats my opinion.

[Gold Reef 10]

I find both companys to be useless, many coins at SANGS are wrong grades!!! Wouldnt bother with them, rather send to professional services like NGC and PCGS!! Specially at the Durban coin show,SANGS graded terrible, all kinds of foreign material sealed in the slab itself, unprofessional, handling all coins with bare hands and still touching the coins surface etc.... Still awaiting feedback!! Thats my opinion.

 

I must state that grading on site was a first for us and we did have some issues. Live and learn as they say. I must add that although Rick has some issues that we are aware of, and we do appreciate him bringing it to our attention, we did have a favourable response from other clients at the DBN show who were very happy. We will be at the JHB coin show on the 14th of July and will be taking coins in to grade at our offices and will not be grading on site. Any feedback or questions at the JHB show will be appreciated. Regards Craig

[multi collection 10]

Seem like SANGS website is down now, could anyone tell me what wrong?

[Solcoin 10]

SANGS vs SACGS ...... is like racing two ALFA's ...you know they will not finish but the winner will be determined by who's engine lasts the longest

[Pierre_Henri 23]

SANGS vs SACGS ...... is like racing two ALFA's ...you know they will not finish but the winner will be determined by who's engine lasts the longest

 

Yep, you are right - like the two old toppies who dared each other before visiting a house of ill repute ...

 

But on a serious note - I do not think SACGS exists anymore and are now finally defunct with a string of Police warrants awaiting them .

 

Pierre

[JCO737 10]

Hypothetical Scenario

 

I would appreciate opinions on the following scenario.

 

You find a ZAR coin that is SANGS graded finer than the finest at NGC or PCGS and on that grading alone should be a near-priceless gem, yet you can pick it up for the price of a NGC-graded coin that is three grades lower.

 

What credibility does the SANGS grading carry in this case? Would you purchase the coin in the hope that it is truly the finest known, knowing that you have some margin for error in the price? Would you purchase it and then send it for re-grading at NGC to increase its credibility and/or value?

 

In a nutshell, what is the credibility of SANGS versus NGC or PCGS for high-grade coins on a scale from 1 to 10 and should SANGS graded coins trade at a discount to NGC graded coins?

 

Thanks.

[Pierre_Henri 23]

What happend to SACGS?

 

I find both companys to be useless, many coins at SANGS are wrong grades!!! Wouldnt bother with them, rather send to professional services like NGC and PCGS!! Specially at the Durban coin show,SANGS graded terrible, all kinds of foreign material sealed in the slab itself, unprofessional, handling all coins with bare hands and still touching the coins surface etc.... Still awaiting feedback!! Thats my opinion.

 

I cannot find the SACGS website of Herman van Noordwyk on the internet anymore.

 

Are there any forum readers who may have send coins for grading and did not receive them back?

 

I remember someone paying around R20 000 for a SACGS Mandela R5 a two or three ago - its more than heart breaking...

 

Pierre.

[jwither 11]

I would appreciate opinions on the following scenario.

 

You find a ZAR coin that is SANGS graded finer than the finest at NGC or PCGS and on that grading alone should be a near-priceless gem, yet you can pick it up for the price of a NGC-graded coin that is three grades lower.

 

What credibility does the SANGS grading carry in this case? Would you purchase the coin in the hope that it is truly the finest known, knowing that you have some margin for error in the price? Would you purchase it and then send it for re-grading at NGC to increase its credibility and/or value?

 

In a nutshell, what is the credibility of SANGS versus NGC or PCGS for high-grade coins on a scale from 1 to 10 and should SANGS graded coins trade at a discount to NGC graded coins?

 

Thanks.

 

No one answered your question, so i will do so. Whether anyone wants to consider it justified or not, the fact today is that SANGS does not have equal market credibility to either NGC or PCGS. This is evident in the prices realized since SANGS first started operating and it is independent of the accuracy or supposed grading accuracy of any service.

 

Whether it is worth taking the risk you describe is going to depend upon several factors. First, the grading skills of the buyer. I do not live in South Africa, so I am not able to inspect any of these coins I buy in person, also true even in the United States where I live. I would not ever consider this risk under the circumstances you describe without being able to do so first unless I had a rock solid return privilege from someone that could be trusted.

 

Second, it's going to be a function of the buyer's risk tolerance. When I have bought or sold NGC or PCGS coins I do not provide and do not expect a return privilege. Many sellers do but many do not. If one does not, you better be prepared for an outcome you do not like.

 

The third consideration is how much you are going to pay. In the past, I bought most of my Union and ZAR coins ungraded. Most I was able to get graded but some did not But it was one thing to do this at the nominal prices I paid for these coins up to 2008 or 2009 and another entirely for the coins you are describing. Personally, there is a zero chance I will pay more than a nominal price for an ungraded coin or the nonsensical ask prices I see for SANGS coins on BoB.

 

Recently, I have seen an increase in the scarcer Union dates in SANGS holders on BoB. These are almost exclusively below MS but I have seen far more of them than I ever did in NGC or PCGS holders in the past. So the question then becomes, given the market acceptability of the services, why are these coins in SANGS holders and not NGC or PCGS?

 

There is of course the possibility that the owner is afraid of sending the coin to the United States and having it lost, but that has not deterred most others to this point and the NGC census presumably still has the majority of the better Union coins in its holders. I say presumably because of the price difference and since I cannot find a SANGS website at all to check the census, assuming they even make it available.

 

However, as a buyer, what I describe is not my assumption, i assume that these SANGS coins are disproportionately not eligible for an NGC numerical grade but only for a "details" designation. I do not know this but as a potential buyer, it is the conservative position to take. In today's market, details coins sell for a small fraction of a numerically graded coin which doesn't make it worth the risk to me.

[JCO737 10]

Thanks for the advice Jwither. I will just avoid the SANGS graded coins where possible.

 

Out of interest, here is a link to the SANGS pop reports: http://www.sangs.co.za/pop-reports/