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Celebrity Jewels

Momentum for 2009! Gemstone enthusiasts and sellers welcome

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alloway65

Thanks Janet,

I just did!!!!!

D

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motherearth

I think the forum actually did some good last year, a quick browse through the Gem section shows that things are a lot better!!.... or perhaps some sellers realise that they have pushed their luck far enough!

 

Burmese Rubies - lol .. only a few left!! ... most sellers seem to have towed the line and are actually declaring fracture filling, not all though! and they know what they are doing!!

 

Synthetic Amethyst, Ametrine, Citrine, Blue Quartz?? .... still being sold as natural!! ... though thankfully, the prices are not as high as before!!

 

seems like the biggest problem I see is the use of the same photos, over and over, but this is only from a minority of sellers

 

 

your thoughts??

 

Jeff.

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Lukeness

I think that if we are to be effective we need to list the links and actually show those listings with duplicate photos and questionable descriptions.

 

We also need to explain each one very clearly so that a. BoB does not construe the posts as personal attacks but rather informative posts a b. so that readers know what exactly we are going on about and learn more from it.

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alloway65

Hi Jeff,

As an amateur in this game and only a collector, from a picture or a brief description how can the uninitiated tell the difference between Hydrothermal/Synthetic and Natural Gems? The intensity of colour......or???? Also if a seller is using a stock picture then what.

I usually always ask if a Gem I am intending to purchase is natural or not.....but as I mentioned before even the sellers in most cases do not really know.

 

Also how does on tell if a Ruby is filled...can anyone explain to a poor engineer the process?

 

I am sure I have been taken in many times.....at least at the moment I only buy from one seller I can trust.

 

Have a good day

David

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alloway65

"I think that if we are to be effective we need to list the links and actually show those listings with duplicate photos and questionable descriptions."

 

To my understanding one of the largest sellers of Gemstones on BoB to a very large extent uses the same photos for many items or stock photos.

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Lukeness

Then the questions are:

 

1. Do they state this in the auctions? (This is essential)

2. Do the claim the pictures to be of the actual gemstone? (This would be blatantly deceiving the consumers)

3. Do the pictures accurately reflect the discription provided in the listing (colour, clarity etc)

4. And probably most importantly: Are the pictures used an accurate reflection of the goods being used? (for this consumers who have bought these gems should photograph them to provide a comparison to the pictures used. Sure, the pictures might have been professionally taken, but it should be clear enough)

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motherearth

hi David, yes the intensity of colour is a dead giveaway, price is another, many of the stones you see, just do not occur naturally in such colours...

 

Jeff

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motherearth

Luke, as you know , gemstone photography is extremely difficult, i don't blame sellers for using stock photos! providing it is disclosed and accurately represents the item being sold! .... but to list 20 rubies for example with the exact same photo is not just lazy but unacceptable .... it can only mean one thing, that the stones are such bad quality, that it is not worth the time for the seller to source individual photos

 

jeff

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Cali Craft and Gems

Re the photographs of gems on sale, I recently received a neutral rating from a buyer who claimed that when she viewed the gem it was not as "lively" as per the image yet the image in the listing was of the exact gem (as stated - supplier image).

 

Many buyers fail to remember that if the sellers use their supplier's images, majority of times these images have been taken under optimum lighting conditions - ie. professionally!

 

It is obvious that the gem would therefore look "different" when under normal interior lighting or daylight. If only we could replicate the professional scenario for all circumstances - many buyers would be happier...

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motherearth

Janet, as a seller I think you have to take responsibility yourself for the images you use, simply blaming the supplier is not an excuse, no offense, just my opinion!

 

I agree that many suppliers would use professional shots, why not if it is a good product, but if is not and they do not match , then they should not be used.

 

If an item is sold with a beautiful photograph, then I believe the buyer has every right to expect a beautiful product

 

 

Jeff

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alloway65

quote

Many buyers fail to remember that if the sellers use their supplier's images, majority of times these images have been taken under optimum lighting conditions - ie. professionally!

unquote

 

Hi Janet,

I must say some of these professional photographers deserve a medal....I dont know how they do it. Some of these perfect photos can be misleading.

 

I have tried but only failure. :oops:

 

David

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motherearth

David, I have seen that same Spinel photo so many times, I think it is starting to fade!!

 

Jeff.

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alloway65

"I have seen that same Spinel photo so many times, I think it is starting to fade!! "

 

What can I say...in my early days when I just started with Gemstones I bought a lot of his items...in retrospect (even at the time disappointed....did return some stones) very very disappointing......but one lives and learns....hopefully!

 

At least we have a debate going.

 

David :D

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motherearth

I have even seen at times, several different sellers using the same photos!

 

Jeff

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Cali Craft and Gems

Re the spinel image - Redhawk is notoriously known to use stock images, as does the Gemseach group.

 

I too am guilty of the stock image situation, but it is clearly stipulated on the listing and is only used where I have many of the same item in the same parcel (especially CZ's, then the 2mm rounds of various gem types).

 

I personally do not have the facility to photograph gemstones adequately, and as such would rather use my supplier provided image than a poor quality image.

 

Where I do not have an image available, I have not yet listed the gem - and as such have literally hundreds of gems in stock not listed yet.

 

Hopefully once I have found my Dad's camera (he hid it somewhere before he passed away without telling anyone where it is), I will play around with it and see the quality images produced. When it came to camera's my Dad was always first in line to get the best product available! No-one was allowed to touch his camera items, yet alone just admire them! (one very proud "dad")

 

Re the number of misleading images of gems, it is the seller's responsibility to represent his / her product as accurately and as honestly as possible.

 

Personally with my own listings, if the image available / provided does not resemble the gem concerned, then the image is not used.

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motherearth

I agree with you 100% re CZ's, and small items of the same quality, you should search on "photobucket" for images, there are thousands of good quality images there, if it is declared as a stock photo and corresponds with the actual stone, I honestly don't see a problem

 

Jeff

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Lukeness

This goes back to the questions I listed, in particular, Are the pictures used an accurate reflection of the goods being used?

 

If you are selling calibrated 5mm rounds of set quality on a daily basis then I can understand using a stock image. Any wholesaler would. But if the picture is misleading then you are lying to your customer.

 

Another issue I have with that particular listing is using unrecognized grading systems. It's fine when you provide an explanation to their usage but simply stating transparent or clean leaves a whole bunch of lee way for misinterpretation and even abuse. Is it eye-clean? Loupe clean? Cleaned with ammonia?

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alloway65

Quote

Another issue I have with that particular listing is using unrecognized grading systems. It's fine when you provide an explanation to their usage but simply stating transparent or clean leaves a whole bunch of lee way for misinterpretation and even abuse. Is it eye-clean? Loupe clean? Cleaned with ammonia?

Unquote

 

Thanks Luke,

I had the same problem, and when I asked seller(s) for clarification of thier grading system etc....they were not amused and made me feel more stupid than I am! :roll:

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Cali Craft and Gems

I for one rely on my supplier's information re the grading plus a bit of common sense as I am not "trained" to give the accurate grading on my own. Alloway has in the past asked me to clarify the grading info, and I am as honest with him as I am with the next buyer. I will give my detailed explanation as best as I can if the grading is "unclear".

 

(Please excuse all puns above - none intended! :wink: )

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Lukeness

But you do not present yourself as an expert and provide any information at your disposal. This is the clear difference.

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Celebrity Jewels

Totally agree!

If in any doubt speak to the experts like Jeff or Luke.. I have learned a tremendous amount from them and have run a few stones that I was unsure about by them.

I am sure that even weary sellers could PM them and get any info that they need. No need to be shy..

Regards

Brian

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motherearth

most people should be able to clarity grade coloured gemstones, Diamonds are a totally different ball game!!

 

colloured stones should in theory be graded by the naked eye, but if you are unsure or new use a loupe

 

VVS - no easily visable inclusions

VS - very small inclusions

SI - easily seen inclusions

I - badly included

 

very basic I know, but a good guideline, if not 100% sure downgrade 1

 

Please note that Diamonds should not be graded this way, a 10x loupe must be used and grading is very harsh ..... eg. you could grade a Tourmaline as VVS but in diamond terms it could be I1...... diamond grading should not be done by novices!!

 

for the record i believe the Diamond grading being used by some sellers, is beyond belief!! , but that's another story

 

Jeff

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alloway65

Pew,

What an afternoon very busy.......rushed off our feet and had a leaking pipe so the plumbers were having fun looking for the problem!

 

quote

Most people should be able to clarity grade coloured gemstones, Diamonds are a totally different ball game!!

 

colloured stones should in theory be graded by the naked eye, but if you are unsure or new use a loupe

 

VVS - no easily visable inclusions

VS - very small inclusions

SI - easily seen inclusions

I - badly included

 

very basic I know, but a good guideline, if not 100% sure downgrade 1.

unquote

 

I agree Jeff, If you are selling coloured gemstones you should be able to do a basic grading, as you explained...or at least do a basic confirmation of what your supplier has told (sold) you.

 

I use a loupe now to check everything now...gemstoners, coins and stamps.

 

If you can only take your suppliers word that is being lazy, and nonsense, also your supplier possibly has a supplier and he (or she) takes their suppliers word...then what....where does the buck stop!

 

I say if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen....and get into a business you understand.

 

When I bought some large diamonds for my wife I had them professionally certified before I paid for them.

 

Lets see where we go from here.

 

Enjoy your evening.

D

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motherearth

for new sellers, I agree that relying on suppliers information is their only choice, for sellers that have been around a while, you have a responsibility to learn your trade, there is a wealth of information available on the web!

 

I have been in this game close on 10 years, if I make a mistake with one of my customers, the buck stops with me! I can not and do not blame my suppliers.

 

David, what you did with your Diamonds is the correct and sensible thing to do! If you are investing thousands of $ in Diamonds or Precious Stones, why wouldn't you? The minds of some buyers is beyond belief, they buy a so called $10,000 value stone for $30 and live on thinking what a bargain they have had, they read posts such as this and dismiss them, and carry on living in denial, but in some dark corner of their brain, they know that they have been ripped!!

 

 

I would advise any buyer to get stones tested independently by a reputable Lab, and not rely on the sellers home made certs. At least until you get to know and trust that particular seller.

 

Jeff.

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