1947-1964 Crown set? Whats going on here...???

[zarmaniac 10]

Not sure how many of you have noticed the price this crown set is fetching? It has been listed and relisted for more than a month, and now all of a sudden it's going haywire. The questions and offers just get more ridiculous? Maybe Bertus/Cuan/Admin can check it out? These sets average between R4500 and R7000. The most expensive one sold for R13900, because it was a full prooflike set. Link below:

 

Sets - Crown Set 1947 - 1964 - FULLY LOADED IN ORIGINAL RED CASING for sale in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:51610298)

[zarmaniac 10]

I see some bid or bids have now been deleted, not sure by who, and it's now at R24500.

[ZARBOY 10]

Hi Werner

 

The Seller says he knows "jack ****" but has more coins listed and for sale. His Auction description is also a copy from the one I use when selling coins on BOB.

 

Very suspicious......

 

Thomas

[smdevy 10]

Hi

Im fairly new to BOB and new to the forum .... and new to coin collecting.

I have been watching this set for a while, I saw it had been relisted and no offers, so I offered R8500 (R1000 less than his opening price, thinking he would accept).

Something kind off suspicious going on there, not only with one of the bidders “disappearing" and the price dropping from R26450 to R24500, but the sellers story seems to be changing alot.

This is a question I asked and his answer on 26/11 …that has been deleted from the Q&A presumably by him.. if you read the current Q&A you will see how the story has changed….

“Q:Hi, Is the picture of the actual set would be purchasing? Are all these coins proof coins? and would it be possible to show more detailed photos. As it is not possible to see the condition, in the photo.

Thanks

A: HI THERE

THESE COINS BELONG TO A VERY OLD MANS GRANDFATHER, HE DONT KNOW NOTHING ABOUT COINS, HE SAID IT'S LYING IN HIS DRAWERS FOR HIS GREAT GREAT GRAND CHILDREN, BUT NOW THERE ARE 18 COINS AND THEY NOT SHINING, THEY STARTING TO LOOK ROTTEN, ACCORDING TO HIM THIS IS WORTHLESS SO I ASKED IF HE GETS 10K WILL HE BE HAPPY, HE GOT A SHOCK AT WHAT HE CAN GET AND WANTS TO POLISHING THEM, PLEASE ADVISE IF HE SHOULD MAKE THEM LOOK NEW AS THE COINS ARE SILVER... I TOLD HIM THAT HE SHOULD JUST LEAVE IT AS IS...

IF YOU ASKING IF THEY GRADED, I CAN HAVE THEM GRADED

HE HAS A LOT OF OTHER OLD STUFF WHICH PEOPLE ARE GIVING GOOD MONEYS FOR ANDTHEY ARE VERY HAPPY WITH HIS OLD RUBBISH....

HIS GRAND DAD BOUGHT A LOT OF DIFFERENT ITEMS FROM THE MINT JUST WHEN THEY OPENED

IM MAKING LONG STORIES

YOU NEED CLOSE UP PICS

WILL SORT OUT FOR YOU

CHOW”

The reason I had asked this is I had seen his text and images are exact copy from an Australian web site: http://atthetossofacoin.com.au/coins/world-coins/south-african-red-box-coins/

…now I read he has said he had 16K offer a month ago, and also 25K offer from his neighbour… maybe is true but I don’t believe it… & now all of a sudden the set was a gift from someone who was supposedly a collector & not supposed to be sold and belongs in a museum ??? something rather fishy going on there!!! I think the close up pics he recently loaded are genuine, but the offers he had said he has received and the story his is now telling are just to try pump up the price… which has seemed to work (alot)… just my opinion I could be wrong...

Shaun

Edited December 11, 2011 by smdevy

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

Ohhhhh, sorry.:huh:

I see what you guys mean, thats very dodgy.

He even copied the wording....:weird:

 

Where is Qball today? he should take a look at this.:huh:

Edited December 12, 2011 by ATOMICSQUIRREL

[zarmaniac 10]

I had a look at the link smdevy supplied:

http://atthetossofacoin.com.au/coins/world-coins/south-african-red-box-coins/

You are correct, he copied the exact images? Not sure when bidorbuy will check it out?

Maybe Thomas can get something done?

I see the bidding is up to R26500 again?

[kyle2 10]

The main pic is a copy from the australian site, the subsequent pics are probably from the set this chap is trying to sell. One will have see what happens..........

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

The main pic is a copy from the australian site, the subsequent pics are probably from the set this chap is trying to sell. One will have see what happens..........

 

Kyle is right, the first pic is a copy but the other photos seem genuine.

They were taken with a blackberry 9780

2011/12/06 5.05pm

 

Lets not assume guys...you know what they say about assumption.

 

Beside he has perfect score to date, so I'm sure this dude is the real deal.:colbert:

[smdevy 10]

I did say that “I think the close up pics he recently loaded are genuine”… and I suppose the set could be worth the current standing price as the set in the link I shared is going for about 30K if converted to Rands, just thought I would comment as the price increased rapidly after not being sold and been relisted … but to be fair the bids only started happening soon after the close up pics were loaded… and maybe there is some truth in that it came as a complete set from the sa mint…

[EWAAN Galleries 11]

Hi

 

Not fair to assume.... There are 3 bids.... Come on guys... IF this was your set on auction you would be over the moon!!!!

 

Bid or buy does their job checking this out but who are we to judge this seller!!!!

 

We have sometimes sold items at 5 times the value, and sometimes half the value.... Give the new guy a chance!

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

I also have a set i'm gonna put on later, hope i am that lucky?

Full set with a graded 1959 MS62:rolleyes: with casing but not original from mint.

 

Ps. Whatcha think that would be worth Ewaan...?

[EWAAN Galleries 11]

I also have a set i'm gonna put on later, hope i am that lucky?

Full set with a graded 1959 MS62:rolleyes: with casing but not original from mint.

 

Ps. Whatcha think that would be worth Ewaan...?

 

 

Hard to say with these new bidders.... I see other set has been removed by Admin.... Maybe you will get just one of the 3 bidders interested... Give it a shot

[zarmaniac 10]

Vortechz, MS graded 1959 crowns are very scarce, only 44 graded by NGC, maybe worth keeping.

 

Maybe Admin can tell us why the listing was deleted?

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

Vortechz, MS graded 1959 crowns are very scarce, only 44 graded by NGC, maybe worth keeping.

 

Maybe Admin can tell us why the listing was deleted?

 

yeah, and only 3 are MS62.....mmmmmmm:shock:

 

Yeah that is a good question,but will they tell us?

[futureinvest 10]

Good day everyone on comments

I dont know much about the ZAR coins but i have this set and it seems like there are some jealous people out there not wanting me to sell these coins, i entered a circle so i hear in the grapevine that i should back off and now i have a needle in for me, i mainly sell gold Natura, Mandela & other gold coins but i have this box of coins which i want to sell off... All i know they work on dates, i did take pictures from here and there to doll up my Auction and make it look nice and presentable and uploaded my own pictures with my 9780 blackberry, as i have been looking at the other crowns, they go very highly priced when graded by NGC, i dont know the procedure for grading so im selling it off just like this, can you believe that i have only one set and not 10 but im getting stick just to make an honest living... There must be someone honest out there who can advise on the value on this set...

Thank you all who will assist

[zarmaniac 10]

The link below is the highest price paid for a crown set on bidorbuy, but the coins were in immaculate condition, all proof or proolike.

Proof Sets - Silver Crowns of South Africa 1947-1964 Cased Set * SPECIAL SELECT * was sold for R13,500.00 on 29 Sep at 22:02 by m66l in Pietermaritzburg (ID:45543376)

But they average at around R5000-R6000.

Proof Sets - 1947-1964 South African Full Crown Set, incl 1959 was sold for R5,500.00 on 21 Aug at 22:01 by goldengun in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:44008489)

[ATOMICSQUIRREL 10]

What if i have the whole set but the 1959 is graded and slabbed MS62, what would that fetch?

I feel that these sets are worth more than R5-6k.

But i suppose it is up to the buyer to decide...

[vossie1964 10]

This is strange but I notice the same auction is active again. Have a look at Sets - Crown Set 1947 - 1964 - FULLY LOADED IN ORIGINAL RED CASING for sale in Pretoria / Tshwane (ID:59188309)

[Jongleur 10]

What if i have the whole set but the 1959 is graded and slabbed MS62, what would that fetch?

I feel that these sets are worth more than R5-6k.

But i suppose it is up to the buyer to decide...

 

I have the full set bar the 1959. I have no idea what they would grade but I would not even consider 15 - 20K.

Imagine their value in 10 - 15 years time.

[jwither 17]

I took a look at both of those sets in the above links. The one that sold for R13500 is a top quality set. The other I cannot tell.

 

On the pricing, I do not believe that R13500 for a set of "Special Select" is a particlar bargain (ungraded) even though that is presumably market price today. The same applies to the proofs. I do not believe that any of these coins are really that scarce even though the mintages seem low.

 

The main reason why they might be scarcer than I think is if a disproportionate number (higher than I believe) were actually melted. That could have happened but even if only a few hundred of each date remain in SS or proof, that is still probably about the same as exists for many of the common KGVI dates in MS leaving the main difference between these two groups the size. I cannot prove it but I doubt the survival rate is that low.

 

With some specific dates, I doubt that the number melted was that great either. By these, I am referring to the 1950 proof and 1959. In another post, I mentioned that in the 1962 Kaplan Price Guide I have, the 1959 is listed at 90/ in MS. The proof set is listed at 6 GBP though there is no breakout for the 5/. There is no price for the SS since the mintage is combined for all three in one entry. Based upon this, I presume that the 90/ is for either MS, SS or proof.

 

Based upon this price, the better evidence points to very few being melted in the early 1960's. And they would not have circulated much either given the change to decimalization in 1961and if it is true that collectors specifically requested them. The main opportunity for substantial melting of the 1959 would have occured during the short window in 1979 and 1980 when silver hit $50 USD. Based upon the metal content, I believe it would have had a "melt" value of around $25. If the market value of these coins was less than this, then yes, some or many could have been melted then but not otherwise.

 

With the 1950 proof, the Kaplan catalog lists the set value at 7 GBP. The 5/ was probably worth in the vicinity of two GBP. Based upon this value, there would have been zero reason to melt it in the 1960's once again leaving 1979-1980.

 

Probably the best values in these coins are some of the circulation strikes where the actual scarcity has been under estimated. The main advantage that coins like these have over other Union is that they are big. Collectors like that.