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mike70

Bob sucks!

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cp27
BoB did have a hassle with their help desk emails which disappeared from 24/11 - as reported by Cuan here on the forum.

 

Please don't make your first buying experience on BoB a bad one until you've contacted billing@communitywatch.co.za and they will sort things out speedily for you and the seller. Good luck and come back as a happy customer.

 

Hi Lily, isnt billing@bidorbuy.co.za? just checkig

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MsPlod

D'you know, every time I see this thread I chuckle at the title... But that is where it stops.

 

The sadness is that one seller has soured this one buyer's experience - now the WHOLE of BoB sux! There are so many superb traders with impeccable ethics, excellent quality goods and fantastic service - it is a great shame that one experience should make you load everything onto the whole site mike70. Please find out what is going on before making such wild statements.

 

"Bastids, i hate you!" Phew - roll on December 13 and the end of Mercury retrograde...

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mike70

Thanks.

 

Dear Mike

 

Please allow us the opportunity to investigate first before calling us bastards. Your money is not lost and the seller is reputable. Let us get to the bottom of this first... I think that's only fair :smile:

 

All mails since the 24th of November have been lost, we are busy working through thousands of mails to try get back up to speed - an alert to this effect was added to our Help page on Saturday, when the database corruption happened.

 

I will provide feedback as soon as we can get clarity on what happened.

 

Thank you for your understanding and patience in this regard. Apologies for any inconvenience caused.

 

Thank you all for your support and good advise.

My apologies for the rant. It was not intended to be malicous, but rather to attract attention to my plight,

still, it was out of line. Sorry.

Fortunately, the seller is of good character, and has experience with BOB which i lack,

and so has resolved the matter very effeciently.

 

Mods, if you could change the title of this post to "Being a Noob sucks".

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MiemsJewels
Thank you all for your support and good advise.

My apologies for the rant. It was not intended to be malicous, but rather to attract attention to my plight,

still, it was out of line. Sorry.

Fortunately, the seller is of good character, and has experience with BOB which i lack,

and so has resolved the matter very effeciently.

 

Mods, if you could change the title of this post to "Being a Noob sucks".

 

 

I love it when a plan comes together!

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Dumdledore
Thank you all for your support and good advise.

My apologies for the rant. It was not intended to be malicous, but rather to attract attention to my plight,

still, it was out of line. Sorry.

Fortunately, the seller is of good character, and has experience with BOB which i lack,

and so has resolved the matter very effeciently.

 

Mods, if you could change the title of this post to "Being a Noob sucks".

 

 

No need to apologize everyone gets angry! My point is that people working at Bidorbuy are the greatest staff ! They only human as well as everybody else. A great forum member gave me such a good advice it takes a great person to apologize. Thanks DA for the vote of confidence!

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lilythepink
Hi Lily, isnt billing@bidorbuy.co.za? just checkig

 

Oh dear. Another blonde moment! This thread is becoming a record for them. Thanks for directing me to my mistake. (It's all The Beak's fault!)

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MrAerospace

Lily always blames her hand puppet for everything! They maintain they are always right even when they are wrong! I have to live with it!

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qball
Thank you all for your support and good advise.

My apologies for the rant. It was not intended to be malicous, but rather to attract attention to my plight,

still, it was out of line. Sorry.

Fortunately, the seller is of good character, and has experience with BOB which i lack,

and so has resolved the matter very effeciently.

 

Mods, if you could change the title of this post to "Being a Noob sucks".

 

No problem at all, as long it could be sorted out for you :smile:

 

Welcome to bob.

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kyle2
Sorry Kyle, it doesn't work that way, we need proof, not what you think or what someone says, you know this as a long time forum reader. This would not be covered by the BPP because no proof was ever supplied nor has any misrepresentation been proven. We have spoken to the seller and he will be refunding a further amount to you. The short fall is stipulated on his listings - 20% restocking fee which is included in the listing page. That is why the full amount was not refunded.

 

On a happier note, I received a mail yesterday from Bertus asking if I did receive my refund. After informing him that I did not and explained my case again and the reasons why I felt I needed a full refund and my honest opinion about that particular seller and his unethical behaviour, I got a pleasant surprise this morning in the form of most of my refund appearing in my account.

Thanks Guys, apologies for my angry emails, could not be helped.

You obviously got the seller to understand the error of his ways.

I am very grateful.:cheesy:

Thanks team BoB!

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MiemsJewels
On a happier note, I received a mail yesterday from Bertus asking if I did receive my refund. After informing him that I did not and explained my case again and the reasons why I felt I needed a full refund and my honest opinion about that particular seller and his unethical behaviour, I got a pleasant surprise this morning in the form of most of my refund appearing in my account.

Thanks Guys, apologies for my angry emails, could not be helped.

You obviously got the seller to understand the error of his ways.

I am very grateful.:cheesy:

Thanks team BoB!

 

I love it when a plan comes together!!:whistling:

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

When all else fails, just take deep breath and say:".....Jheyyyy, Whatkind?":whistling:

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militiamann

Hi

 

"Let me count he ways..." that BoB sucks ! Particularly for international bidders to pay for an item.

 

Just had a major, annoying dialogue with BoB bucks staff. Rigid thinking and procedures that are rediculous and over-kill. Dictatorial as a description that comes to mind. I offered an alternative verification method of my identity and credit card as offered by my overseas bank. Oh, no ! Not good enough ! BoB must have a copy of my passport, Credit card (front and back), and certified utilities bill.

 

I advised how this is difficult for me to comply (I don't even own a scanner !). I also offered information only known by me the card holder. No use !!

My bank advised against sending this information as it leaves me open to identity theft.

 

I usde all available logic, but the only concession (because I did not have a passport) was that I could scan my drivers license !

No initiative here at all. No flexibility. I even got sarcasm with an "are you serious", comment in the E-mail header.

 

And no, this tedious process does not protect me or the on-line community. It ONLY gives Bob a better nights sleep and

scare away international buyers. As a consequence sellers will not get the EBAY type of realised prices.

 

Although the verification requirement is mentioned in the terms of conditions, the over-the-top process is not described.

Funny how the extreme identity documentation is explained away as being in the terms of agreement aknowledge on login. Yet my log in is not proof that it is indeed ME when I come to buy BoB bucks.

 

All BoB did was cancel my BoB bucks order and say that my comments will be taken on board. Fat chance! Especialy after the "are you serious" attitude.

 

Don't get me started on the poor web-site information describing BoB bucks or BoB pay.

And there is more.

 

Dennis

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lilythepink

Welcome to the forum Dennis.

 

There is no doubt that you are angry about the way you feel you have been treated by BoB staff and will find it difficult to believe that the majority of us are happy - indeed some of us are very happy - at the service and courtesy we get from BoB staff. The one thing which I appreciate most about BoB is the thorough security checks that are done. Yes, they annoy certain people who are impatient and I'm sure that there are days when, unfortunately, someone on the staff is impatient too but, on the whole, they are contactable and approachable 99.9% of the time.

 

Perhaps you could send a private message (PM) on the forum to qball (Cuan) who never fails to find a solution to a problem that is reported to him. Good luck.

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qball
Hi

 

"Let me count he ways..." that BoB sucks ! Particularly for international bidders to pay for an item.

 

Just had a major, annoying dialogue with BoB bucks staff. Rigid thinking and procedures that are rediculous and over-kill. Dictatorial as a description that comes to mind. I offered an alternative verification method of my identity and credit card as offered by my overseas bank. Oh, no ! Not good enough ! BoB must have a copy of my passport, Credit card (front and back), and certified utilities bill.

 

I advised how this is difficult for me to comply (I don't even own a scanner !). I also offered information only known by me the card holder. No use !!

My bank advised against sending this information as it leaves me open to identity theft.

 

I usde all available logic, but the only concession (because I did not have a passport) was that I could scan my drivers license !

No initiative here at all. No flexibility. I even got sarcasm with an "are you serious", comment in the E-mail header.

 

And no, this tedious process does not protect me or the on-line community. It ONLY gives Bob a better nights sleep and

scare away international buyers. As a consequence sellers will not get the EBAY type of realised prices.

 

Although the verification requirement is mentioned in the terms of conditions, the over-the-top process is not described.

Funny how the extreme identity documentation is explained away as being in the terms of agreement aknowledge on login. Yet my log in is not proof that it is indeed ME when I come to buy BoB bucks.

 

All BoB did was cancel my BoB bucks order and say that my comments will be taken on board. Fat chance! Especialy after the "are you serious" attitude.

 

Don't get me started on the poor web-site information describing BoB bucks or BoB pay.

And there is more.

 

Dennis

 

Hi Dennis

 

Firstly I would like to thank you for your comments. The security reasons for this requirement were explained to you. Unfortunately you did not want to comply with our lawful and reasonable request. Logging on to our site does not guarantee your identity nor does it confirm your identity - the only way we can do this is by requesting the said documentation, which you refused to send through, this leaves us with very little choice but to cancel the purchase of the vouchers. In an age of online fraud and Identity theft, these checks and precautions are necessary to protect both our site and our users, including you. We don't want to be eBay, you may not agree with this, but that is the reality unfortunately. Our market is completely different to that of eBay.

 

Regarding the subject line, that was not from us. I believe this is from you when you first queried this with us via our Helpdesk system. I believe this was a comment you used when you got the request from us and included it in the subject line to us. We do not send sarcastic replies.

 

Our privacy policy is very strict, the card details are destroyed once we have received it and confirmed them. The information is not shared or distributed to any other parties. An email from your bank unfortunately does not provide sufficient proof of your identity or the details registered on our system. I am sorry you feel this is over kill and dictatorial. These are our terms of use.

 

Thank you again for your comments and feedback.

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militiamann

Hi Qball

 

The whole point is that youtr requestfor security information tothat extent is not reasonable. Thesection leader in the credit card area had never heard of such requirement before (in the whole world) and advised me not to comply for my own security. Doing a security check may be lawful, but the excessive proof you demanded is not specified in any law I have seen or heard of (it is your extreme interpretation).

 

I offered you viable alternatives to check my identity through a third party. A facility the Commonwealth bank offers to alll VISA merchants. They were not good enough. This is the whole point.

 

You were neverbacked into a corner and had every choice to use the banks facilities to verify my identity and the transaction. You chose not to.

 

I did not compare you to EBAY. You are like chalk and cheese to them. What I clearly mentioned was that EBAy tends to get good prices because they support international bidders and value them. Your actions show less than helpful regard.

 

As for the subject line with "are you serious". That first appeared in your E-mail response header. Please check them, as I have just done.

Your ascertion that I generated it is plain wrong.

 

Not only did you not trust that my bank would verify my credit card and identity, but I provided you with extra transaction details that only the card holder would know. Details that my bank could also verify.

 

What I am saying here is that your processes are excessive, rigid and un-necessarily severe. They just as much a hindrance as a "help".

 

If you are soconcerned about security, why did you sell me 500rand of vouchers in the first place? Because you find it convenient to let that amount slide? Where is the noble consistency?

 

Regards

 

Dennis

 

Regards

 

Fennis

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militiamann

Hi lilythe pink

 

From my point of view, I was not impatient.

 

I could not comply with the passport requirement (I have no passport). I also have no scanner. Iam of the older age group.

 

I offered an alternative, and this was outright ignored. I pressed the point and it was rejected.

 

Qball was one of the authors of the E-mails I received. These E-mails said that I was to comply or elae the BoB buck transaaction would be cncelled. There was no alternative offered, except for the substitution of my drivers license for the passport.

 

I hve no problem talking toCuan further on the issue. If his position is flexible. All the E-mails indicate otherwise to me.

 

Regards

 

Dennis

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JohnBenn

Hi Dennis

 

There have been many scammers on BoB, I believe that is why they require the information( to protect both you and me). Even we as S Africans have to provide that information.

 

If you have a camera you can take the pictures they need or your local library should have a scanner.

 

Do you not have a social security card or any other means of identification?

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militiamann

Hi John

 

I did not know that this rigour of documentation was required of locals. If I were a local I would by-pass BoB bucks and make a cash bhnk deposit. As an international user without a SA bank account I can only use BoB bucks. Unless the seller nominates PayPal (very few do) or has their own merchant facility. So I have very limited options.

 

I have never asked the library about a camera or scanner. They should have scanners I would think. So too would Internet cafes during business hours.

I confess that I have trouble using them, and detest them.

 

I had the necessary identification (once the substitution of a drivers license was conceeded). The fact remains that my bank strongly advised against sending the information as it was abnormal to them, and unnecessary (since they provide an alternative and specific service to merchants such as Bid or Buy for this very purpose).

 

I took my banks advice, and offered the alternative, as well as transaction information that only the card holder would know. I advised Bid or Buy that I had difficulty sending the documents and was now very uncomfortable doing so. I would not be sending the documents. Within a couple of hours the BoB bucks order was cancelled. I was told to sort it out with the seller I was planning to use the BoB bucks with. I had caused the problem.

 

Very hard to see the logic, as there are several inconsistencies in the Bid or Buy logic. Plus minimal flexibility.

 

I can understand Bid or Buy protecting themselves. They have that right. I also have the right to point out the ego centric aspects of their motives. Let's be frank. Only Bid or Buy is being protected here. Sellers are missing out on overseas bids. They will walk away.

 

Sorry about the rave. I am still unhappy and have an ongoing issue for any future bidding.

 

All the best

 

Dennis

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Just Beachin

Dear Dennis,

I have no clue if this will work for you, but I can go to my credit card from the bank website, where it was issued from, and pay for a purchase there, That should work for you?

Hope this helps

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militiamann

Hi Just Beachin

 

That is interesting. Are you saying that the funds came from your credit card and your bank electonicaly transfered the money (through a facility on their web page) to the seller's bank account (which was also in South Africa)?

 

 

All the best

 

Dennis

 

I will check with my bank.

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Just Beachin

Yes, I log in, like my check account, to my visa card and make a payment from there, there is an hyperlink called "recipients", open and add. I use this for payments that don't offer credit card facilities.

 

If you want to give it a try, I can give you my banking details :idea::wink:

Edited by Just Beachin

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qball
Hi Qball

 

The whole point is that youtr requestfor security information tothat extent is not reasonable. Thesection leader in the credit card area had never heard of such requirement before (in the whole world) and advised me not to comply for my own security. Doing a security check may be lawful, but the excessive proof you demanded is not specified in any law I have seen or heard of (it is your extreme interpretation).

 

I offered you viable alternatives to check my identity through a third party. A facility the Commonwealth bank offers to alll VISA merchants. They were not good enough. This is the whole point.

 

You were neverbacked into a corner and had every choice to use the banks facilities to verify my identity and the transaction. You chose not to.

 

I did not compare you to EBAY. You are like chalk and cheese to them. What I clearly mentioned was that EBAy tends to get good prices because they support international bidders and value them. Your actions show less than helpful regard.

 

As for the subject line with "are you serious". That first appeared in your E-mail response header. Please check them, as I have just done.

Your ascertion that I generated it is plain wrong.

 

Not only did you not trust that my bank would verify my credit card and identity, but I provided you with extra transaction details that only the card holder would know. Details that my bank could also verify.

 

What I am saying here is that your processes are excessive, rigid and un-necessarily severe. They just as much a hindrance as a "help".

 

If you are soconcerned about security, why did you sell me 500rand of vouchers in the first place? Because you find it convenient to let that amount slide? Where is the noble consistency?

 

Regards

 

Dennis

 

Regards

 

Fennis

 

Hi Dennis

 

Thanks for your comments, whilst I do understand your concerns and frustration, unfortunately we do not follow a flexible regime when it comes to the security of our site for good reasons, many users would not understand this and the risk associated with credit card purchases and the ease of reversing a credit card payment, as such it poses a risk and liability to our business and our users. As explained to you previously, there are certain thresholds (in terms of amounts) and other criteria when we accept credit card payments which came into play, as well as multiple denials by your bank to allow the purchase to go through, all of which raised flags on our side. We do not necessarily publish this for all and sundry to see, as it affects our ability to stop or prevent credit card fraud.

 

This may be severe and unnecessary in your opinion, but not in ours. In fact, the day before your purchase, a scammer tried to purchase R50 000 worth of vouchers on a credit card, we followed the same procedure, and it turns out the card was cloned and the persons documents were stolen (a victim of identity theft). Not only did we save the cardholder from a loss of R50 000 on his credit card (which he immediately cancelled), but we saved sellers huge headaches in terms of potentially being victims of a scammer. Again, this may appear rigid to you, but it does help us combat and prevent fraud. The attempts and frequency to scam people is much higher in South Africa than in your country, that is why we have to be rigid in our insistence for these details.

 

We are a local site, as such we cater mainly for locals, very few international buyers frequent our site, this does not mean we do not cater for international clients, they do however, pose a greater risk than a local user (if you look at PayPal for example, there are certain countries they will not support, purely for this reason), not only that many sellers locally do not wish to sell to overseas clients due to the issues with accepting payments and the high costs of shipping and packaging items for overseas destinations. You can't ask someone who works for your bank about conditions or requirements in another country, as they have no idea what risks and policies and procedures we have in place. We take users information and privacy very seriously and our site security and processes are in line if not superior to world standards when it comes to protecting data and users privacy. We pride ourselves on such high levels of technical security. However, we still sit in a position of being based in an African country that does not have many of the technologies and systems that overseas sites have, for example AVS (Address Verification System), like eBay has. We are in the process of looking at 3D Secure which may be implemented to reduce the risks further, but this does not provide any guarantees when it comes to credit card acceptance.

 

Again, I can assure you we did not say the "are you serious" comment. This has nothing to do with being "ego centric" as you state, yes we do it to protect our site, which in turn protects sellers and buyers, as in the case above with the R50 000.

 

I am truly sorry that you think we are being inflexible and rigid.

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militiamann

Hi Qball

 

As you know, the amount on the BoB bucks purchase request was very, very much less than the 50000Rand example that you are using as an example. My transaction was no way that large. As it turns out, you advised that it was larger than your alarm threshold.This alone would have triggered the document/ID requirement anyway.

 

The initial credit card declines in my case are irrelevant to the threshold process. Indeeed, I sent you an E-mails on that very evening advising you about the transaction being declined. I initialy thought it was your web page having problems ! I then contacted my bank and discovered that it was them blocking the transaction. I cleared it up with them and that evening the transaction went through. I immediately E-mailed BoB and described what happened and my bank's actions. This indicates that the verified owner of the credit card (ME) had authorised this transaction and that the credit card supplier/bank is happy with that. This meant nothing to BoB ! It was another red flag.

 

I am not suprised that very few International buyers visit BoB. It is very difficult to pay vendors. The limited site information implies that I can only pay using BoB bucks (which is a recent thing) because I do not have a SA bank account. Is this correct ?

PayPal as an option is up to the vendors who (understandably) don't like the PayPal rules and fees. it seems not to be commonly available. Lots of room for improvement by BoB !

 

Also, BoB is very clearly inflexible and rigid when it comes to credit cards. Which is the original context of my using these words. You glowingly admit this and present it as a security virtue. Using a whole paragraph to do so. See your own message above. So how can you say you are not inflexible and rigid?

 

You are inflexible on this matter, unless of course you will consider my bank's written validity/authorisation of the credit card purchase ??

I can further supply the confidential transaction number used by the bank (which only the card holder can obtain).

You have the card's verification code from me.

You also have my matching log in details to BoB.

 

Do you see the logic here?

 

Lastly, I can accept that the "are you serious" comment in your E-mail header was not asign of sarcasm. I will take your word for it. Perhaps it was part of the smart E-mail software that automaticaly generates a header. I have also calmed down a bit since then.

 

Regards

 

Dennis

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Fashion Police

For the past 2 months I've received continuous orders and credit card payments from fraudsters on a weekly basis (8 to date, to be exact), and am still receiving them - they just don't give up! With the first transaction I nearly bumped my head, but thanks to BoB who were able to promptly verify that the transaction was fraudulent, I was able to stop the parcel and have become more wary and careful regarding credit card payments. Now I don't accept credit card payments from new users with zero ratings at all, which I have stipulated in bold under my payment terms. The orders that I've received range around R1000-odd - now this may not be a lot of money and may not come close to R50000, but it's still a loss! For me as a small trader, losing R1000/R2000 a shot is a big loss. Therefore I personally am grateful for BoB's security measurements, and probably would have lost a whole lot of money by now if it weren't for them. So maybe try to see this from other users' point of views too.

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militiamann

Hi Fashion Police

 

I have never sold anything on the Internet, and would no doubt find it to be a bit of stress roller coster ride.

I also agree that loosing say R1000 is disturbing. Large companies may easiy be able to absorb these into their "business model" as PayPal likes to advise sellers (I looked into selling some spare badges on EBAY, but I must offer PayPal and this is their answer to fraud).

 

I know that banks will say that the seller and buyer are covered by insurance. The hassle of claiming it and waiting for it is another issue.

 

I only wish to say that I at least offfered BoB the alternative of using my banks standard (and free) credit card/user validation service. Together with some other data that only the true card owner would know. I do not have a zero BoB rating.

 

I am not being difficult for the sake of it. My bank strongly advised me that it was a security risk to send my identity documents to BoB/anyone. I presume that if I did send the docs and later had a credit card issue (of any sort, anywhere in the world) then the bank could legitimately say it was my fault for lapsing security.

 

 

All the best

 

Dennis

Edited by militiamann
spelling, plus, small clarification

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