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qball

Second Hand Goods Act - Proposed Regulations for Dealers and Recyclers

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qball

I have chatted to the Director, they are not too concerned about the really small part time sellers etc. They are targeting the bigger 2nd hand dealers, recyclers, scrap dealers etc. I wouldn't be too concerned about this, as long as you are not dealing in (acquiring and disposing of) stolen goods. This is just my opinion, not a legal one, of course.

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Mustlovebooks

I have received a reply email from the Director and he answered in a very polite manner on my concerns regarding the selling of low value goods like books. Also on selling online and the problems we as online sellers face.

 

This is what he said: If you do not acquire goods for purposes of profitable disposal (resale) I can assure you that it is not necessary to obtain a certificate under the current Second-Hand Goods Act, 1955 (Act No. 23 of 1955) or register under the Second-Hand Goods Act, 2009 (Act No 6 of 2009) when it comes into operation. If, however, you do fall within this category, I am afraid your business will be affected by the provisions of the 2009 Act when it comes into operation.

 

How I understand it, is that if you make a profit (however small) you have to register as a second-hand dealer. Am I correct?

 

Also: platforms such as Bid or Buy and eBay offer the anonymity every criminal wants as was discussed in an online news item: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51741-2005Jan5.html Stolen goods are often obtained through violent means, such as hijacking and robberies. The South African Parliament consequently deemed it necessary to implement tight controls over second-hand goods businesses to combat trade in stolen goods - one can just imagine the chaos if the second-hand industry was left unregulated.

 

Also: If you do carry on a business of dealing in second-hand books, I recommend joining an accredited dealers’ association - members of accredited associations could be exempted from certain provisions in the 2009 Act when it comes into operation. The purpose of the exemptions is to acknowledge the efforts of the organized trade circles and their law-abiding members who have ethical standards above and beyond the minimum required in terms of the Act.

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Asha Craft

Also received a reply that selling household clutter, the odd book or two that I've read a thousand and one times and baby's old clothes will be fine and that I would not have to register as a secondhand dealer for that. Phew! Relief. I thought I was going to have to dump it all!

To me it now seems clear that if you BUY with the intent to RESELL, then you must register as a secondhand dealer.

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lilythepink
I have chatted to the Director, they are not too concerned about the really small part time sellers etc. They are targeting the bigger 2nd hand dealers, recyclers, scrap dealers etc. I wouldn't be too concerned about this, as long as you are not dealing in (acquiring and disposing of) stolen goods. This is just my opinion, not a legal one, of course.

 

I shall have to give up dealing in scrap metal. This means my donkey (minus cart) will have to be put out to pasture. Oh dear.

 

Perhaps the cart should go on auction on BoB?

Edited by lilythepink

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lilythepink
I have received a reply email from the Director and he answered in a very polite manner on my concerns regarding the selling of low value goods like books. Also on selling online and the problems we as online sellers face.

 

This is what he said: If you do not acquire goods for purposes of profitable disposal (resale) I can assure you that it is not necessary to obtain a certificate under the current Second-Hand Goods Act, 1955 (Act No. 23 of 1955) or register under the Second-Hand Goods Act, 2009 (Act No 6 of 2009) when it comes into operation. If, however, you do fall within this category, I am afraid your business will be affected by the provisions of the 2009 Act when it comes into operation.

 

How I understand it, is that if you make a profit (however small) you have to register as a second-hand dealer. Am I correct?

 

Also: platforms such as Bid or Buy and eBay offer the anonymity every criminal wants as was discussed in an online news item: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51741-2005Jan5.html Stolen goods are often obtained through violent means, such as hijacking and robberies. The South African Parliament consequently deemed it necessary to implement tight controls over second-hand goods businesses to combat trade in stolen goods - one can just imagine the chaos if the second-hand industry was left unregulated.

 

Also: If you do carry on a business of dealing in second-hand books, I recommend joining an accredited dealers’ association - members of accredited associations could be exempted from certain provisions in the 2009 Act when it comes into operation. The purpose of the exemptions is to acknowledge the efforts of the organized trade circles and their law-abiding members who have ethical standards above and beyond the minimum required in terms of the Act.

 

 

I believe that this all relates to the definition of "purpose when acquiring the goods", i.e. if you inherited them or bought them to use and then sold them, a certificate would not be required. However, if you go to a liquidation or auction sale and intend selling the items you buy there then you would need a certificate.

 

Now, I ask with tears in my eyes, how do they intend to police that situation iro smaller sellers?

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staccato

This is a huge storm in a tiny teacup! Stop panicking! Relax! Just carry on as before... seems only the second hand and similar dealers need to worry. Just adopt a wait and see attitude till all is finalised.

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DestinysAngels
I have chatted to the Director, they are not too concerned about the really small part time sellers etc. They are targeting the bigger 2nd hand dealers, recyclers, scrap dealers etc. I wouldn't be too concerned about this, as long as you are not dealing in (acquiring and disposing of) stolen goods. This is just my opinion, not a legal one, of course.

 

:awesome:Thanks Cuan, i do trust your judgement and value your word, i would also like to thank you dearly for taking the time to chat to me yesterday, it really made me think!

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alloway65
South Africa drafts the best laws in the world-Fat lot of good as they can never moniter or enforce them correctly.

 

My thoughts exactly......green paper, white paper....toilet paper!!!!!

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MsPlod
I shall have to give up dealing in scrap metal. This means my donkey (minus cart) will have to be put out to pasture. Oh dear.

 

Perhaps the cart should go on auction on BoB?

You could sign the donkey and sell it as an original artwork - just wait for the paint to dry first...

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lilythepink

Should I go one better and perhaps paint it with zebra stripes, MsPlod?

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ATOMICSQUIRREL

I don't think it will be passed, that is just Stupid in my opinion sorry! I think that's just another way for the government to see what business sectors are flourishing so that they can tap into it and make money!

How on earth do you apply that to online shopping!?

 

I have been in the steel industry for years and yes this does apply to scrap dealers and recyclers.

 

But c'mon...seriously!!!

 

I would like to know who the "genius" behind this is....

 

 

 

 

 

spider-monkey_719_600x450.jpg

 

Ps. Why dont i just make 5000 flyers of my ID and hand them out on the street corners!!!:wtf:

Edited by ATOMICSQUIRREL

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mrmouse

How would this apply to someone like myself , items are donated to us , (we are a rehabilitation centre (wild indigenous birds ) which we then sell for funding , most allmost all items ive sold or purchased on BoB are for fund raising for the centre , some items are purchased to resell or raffle , some items have been high value items , watches , lcd t.v`s , etc , I really cant see this bill applying to casual sellers like myself .

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Vegar
I have chatted to the Director, they are not too concerned about the really small part time sellers etc. They are targeting the bigger 2nd hand dealers, recyclers, scrap dealers etc. I wouldn't be too concerned about this, as long as you are not dealing in (acquiring and disposing of) stolen goods. This is just my opinion, not a legal one, of course.

 

Oh what a relief ... I am planning to sell most of the useless Christmas gifts I get ...:sad2:

 

I went to one of the detectives at our local police station who deals mostly with stolen goods (markets and Cash Crusaders etc.) He looked at me in despair "Tannie, if I have to monitor everything you do then when will I have time to do my job ... EH???" He says I am a loophole ... :whistling:

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Vegar
My thoughts exactly......green paper, white paper....toilet paper!!!!!

 

Well, are you PAIA compliant??? You better check it out!! Hardcore waste of paper producing information which is already recorded with business registrars, SARS and the municipality ... and the bank! ... FICA, RICA SCHMICA COMPLIANCE.

 

These measures work very well with compliant citizens and the cons stand back and snigger while we FICA ....

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JANDS

Add my tuppence I will. With about 20 years of passion for various special things including tools, I lost count of the number of woodworking planes I had around 500. These and other such are now the perfect stock for me if I feel like decluttering my life and making a few Bob (No pun intended) on this trading platform. It could be argued that "With purpose to disposal" means everything as few of us buy to give away, at some stage we are going to dispose. This reminds me of a song by Baz Luhrman, succintly, most of what we lie awake worrying about, dissapears. Don't we just love the drama? Like the initial changing of the firearms act, those in the know did not. Most still dont. Making laws is one thing, enforcing another. Let me light a smoke under the eaves before the next paragraph.

 

I feel most of us are sincerely doing the small trade in an environment made increasingly difficult for us. Working from that ethical base, treat an inspector or officer with courtesy and ask their advice. We are under an umbrella of laws even lawyers who specialise, cannot always keep up with. Now in truth, how can we? To quote "ignorance of the law is no excuse" is on paper and the person is hopefully human.

 

Heads down and good luck guys.

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Little Miss Muffet

%#@*&!@#$#$%^% That is what I think of the secondhand goods act.

I am going to look for another product to sell that does not involve secondhand

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wayjen

Can someone tell me if Charity shops and shops like Hospice, fall under the Secondhand Goods Act?

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Vegar

Here is the link to the government gazette: http://www.info.gov.za/view/DownloadFileAction?id=98612

 

The second hand goods act does not pertain to items with a value of less than R100.00 - it was created mainly to control the "scrap metal" dealers and second hand car dealers - not private persons.

 

Since charity shops do not buy their goods from dealers, or others, but receive donated items they are exempt from the act.

 

That is how i see it.

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wayjen

Thanks Vegar.

 

I heard last night a police official (I believe quite high up) who deals in the paperwork of the Secondhand Goods Act walked into a reputable charity shop and bullied/harassed the ladies (70+ year old) and slapped the shop with 2 fines. he then went next to to another shop which had nothing to do with any type of secondhand goods and harassed them too and hit them with a fine. I believe a charge of harassment has been opened against him and there might be more. I wonder if he followed the "code of conduct" as set down in the Secondhand Goods Act when he bullied the ladies?

 

The charity shop receives items from deceased estates and other donations and they sell what they can sell and throw away what they cannot sell. targeting a charity shop is beyond me and does sound like harassment and bullying.

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Vegar

I will ask my liaison officer at Fish Hoek police about it today.

In what area is that charity shop?

I know that the police - or Law Enforcement patrol the Sunrise Beach market. Considering how understaffed they are are I cannot imagine they have time to harass charity shops....

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wayjen
I will ask my liaison officer at Fish Hoek police about it today.

In what area is that charity shop?

I know that the police - or Law Enforcement patrol the Sunrise Beach market. Considering how understaffed they are are I cannot imagine they have time to harass charity shops....

 

How is Fish Hoek these days, that's where I grew up?

 

I don't want to mention the area because it will be easy to pinpoint the shop but lets say Milnerton.

 

The ladies that work in the shop are all volunteers and they are not paying people for stuff as it is all a donation. I cannot imagine a criminal stealing something and then donating it to a charity shop unless he or she had a change of heart which I doubt but stranger things have happened. I wonder if this official wants them to keep a record of all the donations they receive and also all the sales leaving the shop because I can tell you now they may as well close shop because clients will get peeved off at handing out their details for something bought at a charity shop. This same official walks the fleamarket in Paarden Eiland so I wonder how that's going?

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Vegar

As I said the act does not pertain to items with a value of under R100 and donations are exempt.

 

Fish Hoek is the only constant in the universe :awesome: Nice community to live in for geriatrics ... lots of old age homes, doctors, hospices and liquor stores ... nice library, St John's rent out wheelchairs cheap ... drugs on every corner. And yes, A.P. Jones are still the trend setters :laugh:

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wayjen
As I said the act does not pertain to items with a value of under R100 and donations are exempt.

 

Fish Hoek is the only constant in the universe :awesome: Nice community to live in for geriatrics ... lots of old age homes, doctors, hospices and liquor stores ... nice library, St John's rent out wheelchairs cheap ... drugs on every corner. And yes, A.P. Jones are still the trend setters :laugh:

yes, we always said that if you build a roof from Clovelly mountain to the Glencairn side then you would have one massive old age home there. I lived there when it had no bottle stores and shops closed at 12 on a saturday and nothing opened on a sunday and my mother worked for the Bing's in AP Jones for many years so we knew the family.

 

back on topic: 99% of the items in that shop are way under R100 except when they get big items from a deceased estate then it is more.

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