DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION

[seahorsefanatic 10]

It has come to my attention, more in the recent weeks, the licence that some dealers and sellers of stamps use to attract buyers and prey on their greed.

 

The use of words such as scarce,rarely seen,rare,never seen before have been abused to the point where I think the selling fraternity need to step back and think of words such as ethics,honesty,integrity. Lots have been equated directly with the catalogue value and the condition is totally missed. Philatelic items with horrible cancellations, washed colours, tonning and any number of other faults are conveniently overlooked and the buyer is then tempted to spend to much thinking he/she is getting a bargain.

 

This is especially true of new collectors and those who dont have the necessary knowledge who are taken advantage of. These are the philatelists of the future that are being milked and will be left with a very sour taste in their mouths when the deception is discovered.

 

I think it is time that sellers sit up and take notice of how they abuse the english language as do estate agents when selling a house. This is not true of the bulk of sellers who are most pleasant and mostly eager to assist if you are not happy with a purchase. The dealers I am directing this at know exactly who they are. [/i]

[Jacques Kuun 12]

Hello Seahorsefanatic

 

I fully agree with you. Please look at the following item. I specifically listed this item to try and educate some buyers. The item is offered at 97% below catalogue value or rather at 3% of catalogue value. And I am offering FREE shipment via courier! Because it has been correctly described, there had been no takers. Yet, if I were to put this item up on the Wednesday Crazy Auction (not stating any faults), it would fetch many, many hundreds of Rands. Believe me, I know it would.

 

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=10164646

 

On the other hand, if this specific stamp was in superb condition, it would have been scarce! I do not believe that there would have been much difference in the price as far as the Wednesday Crazy Auction is concerned.

 

On the other hand, very often the matter of perforation, cancellation and centering is subjective. I think that a good quality SCAN is sufficient to cover these three areas.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

[seahorsefanatic 10]

DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION.

 

Thanks Jacques for your reply - what I can add to this bone of contention are dealers who consistently tell you about all the good points and hide behind the scans to cover the faults. If you are going to say how good the stamp is and the colour, perfs and cancellation are then also give the bad points to. This can be seen on a number of items/collections on yesterday's crazy wednesday auction. So the description is very subtle in execution to stay on the right side of BoB but his does nothing for the hobby.

 

Why is a watchdog not developed by BoB to warn these so called psuedo dealers and thereafter kick them out. Here we are not dealing with a second hand toaster but an investment item that collectors want to see appreciate in the years to come

[KWALITY STAMPS 10]

Wednesday R1 crazy auction is turning into a joke

 

Wednesday R1 crazy auction is turning into a joke

 

I have to agree with seahorsefanatic and say that the wednesday auction is turning into a joke. I am considering cutting down my wednesday listings because i cannot compete with the amount of xxxx that is now being listed. I have brought up this issue before in another post and no one has replied. I think BoB needs to close off the Wednesday listings earlier so that delaers can't come in on a wednesday morning and shove 100+ items. I went on on Tuesday and their was +200 items, by wednesday that number had jumped to 319, with the majority coming from 1 dealer and most of it was bad stuff sold at extremely high CV's. My 23 listings, which i paid quite a sum for to try and list on the 1st page was suddenly lost and i had clients phoning, asking why had i taken off some of the items.(yes I know I am bitching). but even as a buyer, i don;t like the look of the wednesday sales anymore. I remember when I first started buying, (competing against seahorsefanatic and so on) it used to be fun, their was so much goods stuff, very little xxxx. i used to really enjoy trying to get items. Now days, if i have to troll through 7 pages to find some items of value, i am not interested. All this stuff that is being sold off as high value and you can see a mile away that it is charity box stuff. I mean, really, even BoB should be concerned about the long term effects of this. Good sellers are going to stop selling, because it is not worth it, and all the potential long term buyers, will stop buying, because they feel that all dealers are ripping them off. And this raises another issue, how will a buyer know what is genuinly an investment piece that he/she should pay handsomly for, and xxxx that he/she should only pay r1 for.

 

Mayve BoB can help with this, but i agree, we need some sort of quality control, most buyers believe that the stamps they are buying is going to appreciate in time, and so it should, it it is quality. This is a long term plan, not the short sighted let's make a quick buck and forget about tomorrow plan. We need BoB's buy in. I feel, as do others, a sort of committee needs to be set up, and I know that we have volunteers who will help with this. to manage the items being put on, not saying that they should maange every one, but when a bad item is put up and is offered as a good high investment piece, a committee could put a stop to it, this way, it is not BoB saying to every person, "show us the proof", and their will be no hdden agendas, because a committee, and not 1 person will be responsible for making that descision. It is extremely difficult for BoB to manage the stamps on their own, this is thousand of small items, they should feel free to use the expertise that comes with some of the dealers. Some with over 20 years of experience. Maybe BoB could reply to this, sit down with some of the dealers and come up with a plan.

 

I hope that this time, these discussions will lead to more people responding, this is not a personal attack, but come on, let's do something before it is too late. Recently a coin delaer aksed me how stamps works, as a coin dealer, if a coin is cataklogued at R10 000, he would sell it for close to that amount and sometimes even more. Yet with stamps, it can be catalogued at R10 000 and only sell for a hundred. I had to explain to him, the concept of mssing perfs, bad cancellations and so on. but then again, what is the difference between a good stamp and a bad one, when buyers are so used to paying the same price for both... (something to think about).

[Jacques Kuun 12]

Hello David

 

I am also guilty to a large extent. As a dealer and also the owner of a specific stamp, it is natural to go on a spree regarding the good points of the stamp. We want to sell our stamps! But we have to look at the long term scenario. In organised philately, the average age of the collector must me 60+. As far as BidorBuy is concerned, I am sure the average collector is a lot less, perhaps as “low†as 40? Should thing go according to plan, I hope to be in the trade for another twenty years. We have to make sure that we will have enough trusting and knowledgeable collectors (CLIENTS to be blunt).

 

I find it especially annoying when sellers are putting up imperfs, for example, Cape Triangles or Penny Blacks and then do NOT state whether they are cut in or not. It is amazing how the quality of the scan or photo is directly proportional to the quality of the stamp’s margins.

 

Remember the fun we had at the meetings regarding some descriptions: Soiled, torn, rusted, bad cancellation, but otherwise fine! Or parcel cancellation, diagonal tear and a couple of perfs missing – not detracting from overall appearance!

 

Regarding a Watchdog, a brilliant idea that would suit me 100%. But I do not think that it would be possible. I do hope that somebody would prove me wrong. Could you imagine: only “Watchdog Approved Stamp Dealers†allowed to list on Wednesday Crazy Auctions?!

 

Should we perhaps have a separate topic regarding the age of collectors or dealers on BidorBuy? I think it would make for very interesting statistics. Obviously we will have to excuse the ladies from this exercise.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

[Jacques Kuun 12]

Hello Savo

 

I have posted out of order, only seeing your post after I have replied to the Seahorse.

 

I do note what you are saying: “I think bidorbuy needs to close off the Wednesday listings earlier so that dealers can't come in on a Wednesday morning and shove 100+ itemsâ€.

 

But would that help, whatever the cut-off, the same dealers will still flood the auction?

 

I think that we are on a very thin line. I would have loved to suggest that there should be a minimum listing fee (say R10-00) for the Wednesday Crazy Auctions in order to cut down on the cheaper listings. But, we also need the smaller dealer and the collector with the smaller budget. The hobby is about enjoyment. I very passionately believe (we have been through this before) that it is all about stamps being incorrectly described. 10 items on a stockcard is not a collection, a Highly Catalogued item with a parcel cancellation is very seldom a scarce item, a collection with 100’s of cheap stamps cannot possibly be highly catalogued (the SACC and Gibbons state that the values for cheap items constitute a handling charge, rather than a true value), etc, etc.

 

Regarding your and the Seahorse’s idea about some kind of watchdog, I think it is brilliant! What is the way forward?

 

I have already cut down my listings on the Wednesday Auctions by 70%. Why spend good money listing a good stamp (which I can sell anyway in the “formal†trade), only to have it disappear amongst 100’s of substandard listings?

 

Regards

 

Jacques

[Rusty500 10]

Hi all.

 

Once again, I feel that the peanut gallery should add there five cents worth.

 

Like I've mentioned before, I am an amateur collector, but each and every day I learn something new about stamps. I inherited a collection when I was fifteen years old, and for the past 30 years the collection has been left, untouched, in shoe boxes. I have recently closed a business which has left me with very little to do, other than play golf and get my stamp collection in order.

 

I have recently started selling stamps on BoB, not for financial gain, but merely as a portal to move duplication and, with the proceeds, buy stamps that I need. I refrain from using terminology like perforations, watermarks etc. or for that matter mentioning catalogue values, or the words rare and scarce. I offer a full, money back guarantee, should a buyers not be satisied with what they receive. The reason for this is quite simple. I am an amateur, I cannot, for love or money, give a description that a collector, with 20 years experience, could give. Never.

 

Now my point is this. What is too stop an amateur, like myself, from selling on BoB. I certainly don't think that BoB was actually designed with professional sellers in mind. I think that BoB is actually more like the classified section of your newspaper, or, believe it or not, like a public auction. The pro sellers have found that they can get a lot more exposure of their products by advertising on an online auction, and all this at a fraction of the price of normal advertising. Now why take it out on us?

 

If I place my Wednesday auction two minutes (never done this before) before the auction opens, so what? I pay exactly the same fees as everybody else. If BoB allows me to post my advert then, then it is obviously allowed.

 

This is an auction site, and, like most auctions, there will always be sellers that take chances. This is most unfortunate, but a fact of life. I agree that the buyers need to be protected from dodgy sellers, but I cannot see how this can be done. BoB could not possibly scrutinize every auction that is placed on their site. The buyer has every right to ask questions about the product, should he / she not be completely satisfied with the description provided. Unfortunately, when it comes to bidding, most punters become like gamblers and lose control of their sense of justification. This is exactly what the dicey seller is looking for. This is where the words like rare, scarce, seldom seen on BoB, actually take their toll.

 

I am in no way trying to point fingers at anyone on this website, but there will always be a sucker out there, and, unfortunately, their will always be a seller willing to sell to him. I know that collecting stamps is a very specialised hobby, and false advertising gets up everyones nose, but let's face reality, it's going to happen.

 

Remember, once bitten, twice shy. Keep your side of the bargain, keep your ratings high, and hey presto, you will attract repeat business. Con artists don't get repeat business.

 

Regards

Rusty500

[seahorsefanatic 10]

DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION

 

Whilst I agree with the points made to my posting it is off the point of what I have a problem with and thats the flagrant misuse of the English language to someones financial benefit - guess who - the seller !!!!!

 

If a watchdog was instituted it could be brought into action only when complaints are received ( and I am fully prepared to go any number of rounds with the dealers that I have a problem with ) The auction is a vehicle that should be open to all to dispose of unwanted items irrespective of value. We also need to include those cheaper items for those of us with small budjets.

 

The flagrant use of large cataloge values inflated by the exchange rate to boost a collection's chances of been sold is embarasing - such as this collection is catalogued at R25,000 knowing that the item is starting at R1.

 

As in stamps that are rare, would'nt it be great if the casual abuse by sellers was rare. Now that should be collectable and bankable.

[Jacques Kuun 12]

Hello Rusty

 

What a life (very little to do, other than play golf and get my stamp collection in order). I will forsake the golf, if I could simply get my stamps in order.

 

I have made it very clear that the issue is not about the smaller / amateur seller. It is about incorrect descriptions.

 

I know of many, many strong buyers who simply ignore BidorBuy because they have to scroll through endless pages of junk lots in order to find a decent item. For the stamp site to become stronger, we need good items. Good sellers will attract good buyers, which will attract better sellers, etc. A circle is endless. Please note that I am not referring to cheap versus expensive. I am referring to quality items versus stamps that belong in the dustbin because they are damaged! Yet some sellers unashamedly offer them for sale! With bad descriptions and even worse photos! You are correct, according to the rules of BidorBuy they have the right to do so.

 

But as a person whose bread and butter depend on the stamp market, I find this unacceptable. The stamp market should not be there for a couple of unscrupulous traders to devour.

 

I very sincerely believe that there is a place for everyone and that the dealer selling R1000-00 items does not have any more rights than the dealer selling R2-00 items. A lot of the very cheap items are almost impossible to find in the formal trade! The sellers selling the cheap items (correctly described) do a tremendous job and should be commended. I trust that Fanie3 will forgive me for using his name without permission, but he is a case in point. An ethical and hardworking seller with the highest standards concentrating on the cheaper items.

 

You are an exception as well. Not making claims that are simply not true, scanning the items instead of using bad photos, providing a money-back-guarantee, etc. Don’t you think that your items might have fetched better prices if the unscrupulous sellers were simply not on the site?

 

You state: “Remember, once bitten, twice shy. Keep your side of the bargain, keep your ratings high, and hey presto, you will attract repeat business. Con artists don't get repeat businessâ€.

 

I hope you are right regarding your statement on the con artists!

 

Thanks and regards

 

Jacques

[AngelaBraun 10]

It is extremely disappointing, and particulary for those who know me, that someone would choose not only this forum to attack me, but poses insulting quesions in the question and answer forum.

 

I chose to ignore it as I have nothing to hide. A fanatic's name has been given to me on a number of occasions of whom I should be aware of in their attempt to undermine and discredit me at every possible opportunity. I now understand why I am not only being insulted but also attacked with innuendo to futher undermine my integrity for those buyers who do support me.

 

I have never claimed to know it all and welcome constructive criticism but I WILL NOT stand for insults false accusations and innuendo.

 

I do not wish to have any altercation, especially publicly, but I am willing to come out fighting, if it is a fight you want, however I refuse to use this forum to debate whatever needs to be said further.

[Jacques Kuun 12]

Hello Angela

 

I am a bit confused here.

 

I did not, or rather do not, see anybody posting on this topic attacking you or trying to undermine you.

 

We need your input!

 

Regards

 

Jacques

[seahorsefanatic 10]

DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION.

 

I was rather amused by the response of one of the so called dealers who took this personally - guilty concience ? My broadside was directed at a numbers of dealers over their choice of wording. Strangely, eveyone I've spoken to agrees with me.... fancy that !!!!

 

This is firstly, a forum for the discussion of topics relevant to our hobby and the place to air views whatever they may be. I am glad it has raised a sore point with a number of people....seems as if I am on the right trail here.

 

I welcome comment by other parties and would love to hear their views.

 

This fanatic will not be intimidated with the threatening posture of those who feel exposed.

[Rusty500 10]

Hi Seahorse,

 

Yes the forum is a place of public discussion and possibly even a place to air your point of view. I certainly don't think it is a place to slander and critisize your competition. All you are achieving by doing this is making your opposition more determined. The general buyers on BoB don't read the forums, so the effect on them is nil.

 

I suggest that if you have a problem with a sellers ad that you follow the correct procedure and report the error to BoB or ask the seller a question before putting your foot in your mouth.

 

I am not having a go at you, as I would like to see accurate auctions on BoB as much as anybody else, but sticks and stones isn't going to get the job done.

 

I thought stamp collectors where a gentle bunch of people. Have a look at the Gemstone forum if you want to see handbags at 10 paces. Those guys are fanatical, and yet they still seem to be stuck in exactly the same they where three months ago.

 

Regards

 

Rusty500

[seahorsefanatic 10]

DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION

 

Hi Rusty500

 

I read your note and disagree with you totally. If you read my original posting I directed it at no particular dealer at any time. I mentioned no dealer name. You are trying to twist this into a personal thing. Big mistake. This problem involves many lots which are described as rare, never seen before, etc. Most of the items on Crazy wednesday can hardly be described as such. You are therefore happy with this situation ?

 

I am old enough to know the proceedure to follow. We all know that BoB does not have the manpower to start an ethics comittee or the like. I am not a dealer but a collector therefore these sellers are not competition to me.

 

Many collectors are now enjoying the forum and may it grow from strength to strenth as these issues need to be brought out into the open. By keeping quiet you are allowing the transgressor to get away with it.

[Rusty500 10]

Hi Seahorse.

 

Points to ponder:

 

1) Why don't you mention the sellers name? If, as you say, many buyers are reading the forum, would it not be better if you mention the sellers name, so that the rest of the people who are trying to create a honest and fair enviroment are not combed with the same comb. Or, if you have an issue with a seller, would it not be better to avoid their auctions.

 

2) Why would I want to twist this into a "personal thing"? I have no idea who you are or who the person is that you are having a go at. This is a forum and I am entitled to my own point of view. We are all submitting a point of view are we not?

 

3) BIG MISTAKE? Why, for airing a point of view? Or do you now intend putting me on your "hit list".

 

4) If you go to the Gemstone forum, you will see that the Buyers and Sellers, along with Bob, have formed an ethics commitee to sort out their problems (false advertising, incorrect descriptions etc) which is run by the members, with an arbitrator who oversees the whole forum. Most of the sellers are following the rules and the guidelines, but nothing is happening to the sellers that haven't conformed. They are actually selling more now than they were, because their ads look so much better than the competions. Not only does BoB not have the resources to monitor a commitee like this, the members are just as toothless.

 

Finally, I am in no ways against a BoB that is fair for Buyer and Seller alike. I would also like to see dishonest sellers (and buyers) being punished. Maybe we should show dodgy adverts here in the forum for all to see. Bitching and moaning won't help, and aggressive attacks on the people who take part in the forum will help even less.

 

Regards

Rusty500

 

 

4)

[Jacques Kuun 12]

Hello Rusty

 

I quote from your post.

 

If you go to the Gemstone forum, you will see that the Buyers and Sellers, along with bidorbuy, have formed an ethics commitee to sort out their problems (false advertising, incorrect descriptions etc) which is run by the members, with an arbitrator who oversees the whole forum. Most of the sellers are following the rules and the guidelines, but nothing is happening to the sellers that haven't conformed. They are actually selling more now than they were, because their ads look so much better than the competions. Not only does bidorbuy not have the resources to monitor a commitee like this, the members are just as toothless.

 

Is spoke to billibo, the (then) administrator of the BoB forum a few days before he died. He was going to help me to set up a Code of Ethics for the Stamp Site as he was active in / part of setting up the Gemstone Code. While he sounded very eager in getting involved, he made similar comments to what you have made and actually warned me: the non-conforming sellers might suddenly be better off!

 

Billibo or admin as he was known, was very strict and did not allow any comments of a personal nature on the forum without a link being posted to the relevant item / seller / buyer.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

[KWALITY STAMPS 10]

Look at my post "d we need an ethics commtitee?

 

Hi Rusty 500 and all others.

 

Firstly, I think we should stop attacking one another, but before doing that, Rusty 500, this is not attacking you, just want to give feedback on something you wrote aearlier on the post.

 

I am not complaining that Bid or Buy should do anyhting drastic about the Wednesday listings, the only comment, and i think this is imposrtant to understand, is that some people wait until Wednesday to put up their listings, and yes, it is fine, if you have a late item, being 1 or 2 maybe even 5, but really, to put up 100 items a day after the auction has opened, giving yourself enough time to see what others have put up, never mind the fact that you throw all the listings for a complete ball of...... I have had clients who have seen a particuloar item on a Monday, phone me up on a wednesday and ask why have I taken it off? Yes. I know. Youi will say, but they can track the item. Have you tried tracking 30 items on a wednesday. I have, as a buyer, and a keen one at that. I know that I saw a particular stamp on page 2, i am happy, because I know it is there, at the same time, i get to see what else and how other stamps are doing around that stamp. I might be tempted to bid on these as well. But when someone throws 100 real dodgy stamps up on a Wednesday, and messes up the page that i remember seeing on a monday or tuesday, then i don;t want to buy. Because i have to start all over again looking for stuff. Like i said. When I first started buying, their used to be under 200 items, not all high value, not all great stamps. But just enough to appreciate across the board. what seems to be happening these days, is that some buyers have gotten a large charity box from these monthly auctions and then seperated them and put them up as high value items. If someone wants to sell a bad stamp, by all means, they must, but then please don;t put it your heading cv thoudands.. Rather say, this comes from a deceased estate and i don;t know the value, but someone told me... I must apologise as i am going off on a tangent... I agree wioth dstorm... even i have low value items i put up, someone will always want it.. but let's stop the rot from setting in and not lie to our valued clients whom we would like to see come back for more and more..

 

Anyway.. I am not attacking anyone and am hoping that you find this in good faith

 

Savo

[AngelaBraun 10]

David

 

Do not play the innocent, evasive, elusive offendor now.

 

Had it not been for someone calling me to ask what the problem between you and I was I would have been unaware of what was been said. When I said I had no idea what the person was talking about I was informed of your discussion with this person and was directed to the forum. I then put 1+1 together and I can assure you that did not add up to 3.

 

Once you posed your insulting question to me on one of my Crazy Wednesday Auction lots and here is the link

 

http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/jsp/item/Item.jsp?Trade_TradeId=10286820

 

and then after reading your 3 posts, it is obvious enough to see you were referring to me.

 

Seahorsefanatic's quote: The dealers I am directing this at know exactly who they are. [/i]

 

I am one of the few people who have used words such as rarely seen, never seen before and furthermore your 3rd post Seahorsefanatic's quote

[The flagrant use of large cataloge values inflated by the exchange rate to boost a collection's chances of been sold is embarasing - such as this collection is catalogued at R25,000 knowing that the item is starting at R1. again can only have referred to the above tradelink item

 

furthermore you state as for ethics,honesty,integrity. Lots have been equated directly with the catalogue value and the condition is totally missed. Philatelic items with horrible cancellations, washed colours, tonning and any number of other faults are conveniently overlooked and the buyer is then tempted to spend to much thinking he/she is getting a bargain.

 

I have nothing to hide nor to be ashamed of and this is why I have posted the link above for others to see and make their own minds up as to whether I am what you are trying to insinuate. I consider myself an ethical, honest person with integrity, and if you know anything to the contrary then enlighten me.

 

I am one of the only sellers who will scan every page of a collection to give the buyer a better insight as to what they are considering so they know exactly what is in the collection.

 

I am not saying I am the only one you were referring to but do not try to duck and dive now and pretend I was not the main person you were targeting.

 

As for your 4th post I was rather amused by the response of one of the so called dealers who took this personally - guilty concience ? My broadside was directed at a numbers of dealers over their choice of wording. Strangely, eveyone I've spoken to agrees with me.... fancy that !!!!

 

As for a guilty conscience I can only say my reputation with my buyers is what counts and is of the utmost importantce to me as well as knowing that my conscience is clear. My regular buyers know I am a fair and honest trader who is not out to MAKE A QUICK RAND or sale. They know I am prepared to go the extra mile FOR THEM and you need only read my ratings to qualify this. Facts at the end of the day is what count and I do not threaten nor try to intimidate I state the facts as they are and leave the threats and intimidation to others. My fight means I will not sit back, be keep quiet, take a back seat and allow anyone to falsely accuse me or make allegations about me which are unfounded.

 

As for exposing me there is nothing to EXPOSE

[Rusty500 10]

Hi all (I come in peace)

 

A lot has been said by many, but, at the end of the day, many are saying the same thing. Unfortunately, the discussion became more like a debate between two rival political parties than the discussion that it was meant to be.

 

May I suggest that we all draw up a list of, say, five things that you personally feel are of concern when it comes to either buying or selling items on BoB. For example: Davo, you have a problem with the closing time for the Wednesday auctions. Seahorse, you dislike words like scare, rare etc used out of context. A lot of us dislike photographs and would like to see scanners used at all times, unless a bulk item is being advertised. Whatever is of concern to you.

 

We would then need to work together to see which points are critical to the survival of our section of BoB, which are important, which are less important etc etc and select a representitive from the group that could approach BoB and see if their is any possibility that a "rules guideline" could possibly be implemented for the stamps section.

 

Yes there are a lot of folk who don't read or post on the forum that would need to be brought in on the discussion, but like the politicians always say:"We'll double-cross that bridge when we get to it".

 

Does anybody out there agree?

 

Regards

Rusty500

[Jacques Kuun 12]

Finally got my daughter off the computer…

 

Hello Rusty

 

THANKS!

 

I can sit for the next hour and write a lengthy post, but I think that the above word would suffice.

 

Regards

 

Jacques

[AngelaBraun 10]

Rusty You are like a breath of fresh air in a very stale for(room)um. Thank you for your logical thinking and unbiased approached. It is encouraging to have someone neutral who has a panoramic view and can absorb what it being said, mull over it and come up with a logical approach. Perhaps should anything come of the suggested ethics committe, you should be voted for as the arbitrator/watchdog. Now that is a novel suggestion.

 

I enjoy your clear thinking and level mindedness. Thank You.

[KWALITY STAMPS 10]

continue the discussion elsewhere

 

Thank you Rusty, by the way, Savo not Davo, but then again it could've been a typo as i look down at my keyboard, i realize that. I am glad to see that finally we could be getting somehwere. Maybe then, we should continue this discussion under the post is an ethics committee needed? cut out all the back and forth between individuals and at the same time, start afresh.

 

would be nice to hear from gabriel1 as well..

 

On the issues side, it is not really a list your five issues and see what happens. we need to look at this from a different perspective. How do we set up something like a committee that can help both sellers and buyers in the future. a whole new wave of buyers have come on, and yes Jacques, if they all had to come in onto the forum and give their ages, i am almsot sure that we would average in the late 30's, ealry 40's. each collecting for his/her own reasons. some don't understand the market completely and would like to know more. new sellers would like to learn how best to describe the items. I know. I phgone Jacques when I need information. 2 sellers on BoB, phone me when they need information.. So it is not just about the issues, this is a whole new concept we should be looking at. The art of philately is not dying as the rest of the investment world, in a way, it has a revival, but in that revival, we need to steer it in the right path. people shouldn't be hurt. both buyers and sellers.

 

i will give this more thought as it is quite late and i am rambling on in many different tangents. but yes... we are on the right path, whatever that is.

 

i hope that all of you who are writing and reading these posts have a wonderful evening and wake up with fresh heads and ideas in the morning.

 

Best - Savo

[seahorsefanatic 10]

DESCRIPTION OF LOTS FOR AUCTION.

 

I thank rusty500 for his input. My reference to "big mistake" was that you misread my original posting. I was taking aim at statement like rare, never seen before,etc as well as collections/lots that stated they were worth far more than they really were. Read my posting again please !!!

 

Angela, I do not need to side step anything or anybody. If you want to be specific, are you happy with the way you described the lot in question and do you stand by your valuation ?. I kept names out of this as respect for you as I am not faulting the thousands of other lots you sell successfully. I draw your attention to some of the lots that other sellers put up. Can you honestly say that their descriptions dont use licence to sell ?. That you are happy with the condition of some of these items as dislplayed in the pictures ? If not, do you agree something needs to be done or do we just keep quiet ?

 

This is becoming a bigger problem and is going to harm philately in the end. What does the collector think of our hobby when he pays thousands of hard earned rands to find that he cannot sell years later because he has bought a dud item.

 

Im glad that Ive stirred up emotions on this one - I take full responsibility for what Ive said because I believe Im right. Watching items on BoB over the last year has made me post on this forum as I feel we all need protection.

 

I am happy to discuss specific lots with others and get their opinions on whether a lots is described correctly. Lets work together.

 

Thanks to Savo and D/Storm for your input.

 

Angela, lets move on and focus on philately. I acknowledge your viewpoint but will put my comment in where I see fit and you are welcome to disagree with me thats what a forum is all about.

 

Viva debate Viva !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Rusty500 10]

Hi again

 

It would seem as we have all turned to the same page, and hopefully we can now discuss the issues without going off in different directions again.

 

As I mentioned in my last post, I thought a list of "gripes" from both the Buyers and Sellers in our section could be a good place for us to start the remedial process. Although the post has been viewed many times, only a handfull of people have been participating in the discussion. I am not trying to be a "leader" in these discussions as I do not have the knowledge or the experience of 99% of the people that are actually affected by the short-comings of our site.

 

Most of my groans would be about the whole auction site itself, but I doubt that any of us would be able to move the powers that be on that point. An auction countdown where auctions are closing every minute (as seen on Ebay) would be nice, but that is just pie in the sky stuff.

 

The problems that I do see on BoB that we may be able to rectify are as follows: Please understand that I am not pointing fingers at anybody. I am merely stating things that I feel could be misleading to an amateur collector such as myself.

1) Collections offered at huge catalogue prices, and not a single picture of a stamp to be seen.

2) Bad photographs that hide or mask faults and general condition of the stamps. No problem if the photographs are of a lot that cannot be scanned.

3) Rare and scare stamps that are neither rare or scare. No problem if they are rare and scare of course.

4) Sellers who advertise material at huge prices that are not warranted. (At the risk of being dragged into another argument I would like to clarify this point) The latest Nelson Mandela stamps and FDC's that are being advertised at huge prices with mark ups at 1100% after just four months.

 

Right, I've had my say, now how about the rest of you.

 

Regards

Rusty500

[rosa123 10]

Stamp collecting

 

Hi Guys

 

I just thought I would put my 2 cents worth in.

 

I just feel that the forum is a great place to convey one's opinions and expressions and should not be used as a portal for personal attacks or as mini (political type) debate. I believe if people want to argue then they should do it personally rather than publically. Use e-mail instead of a forum.

 

I have personally never dealt with any of the other stamp dealers so I am unable to give any opinions on how they do business. I think everyone should realise something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. If there has been nothing but honesty throughout a transaction then there will be no problems.

 

I am an amateur collector and to be honest have only purchased stamps from Angela. I have had nothing but good experiences when dealing with her and she has been more than helpful.

 

I hope that some people can see my point of view.

 

Kind Regards

 

Rosa123